PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #2

[SurfieTX]

I'd like to know if JL saw the "group" at Sawyers. From the video interview, she never mentions them and doesn't even mention them walking with her to Hardware Bar.

 

[JurysOut]

Given that no 'main group/person' has been mentioned - as in whichever group/person she departed from to hang out with these guys, maybe she drove herself to Hummelstown to meet up with them specifically? And maybe asking about the ride was more 'I'm too drunk to drive can I ride with you?'

In this scenario, how does her car get back to her apartment with the keys in it?

To other locals who are younger than me (practically anyone)-

Who stays at The Gas Station long enough to get wasted? Srsly. The drinks arent particularly interesting or cheap, there's no dancing -is there?- and the food is pedestrian at best.

Aren't there a fair number of tourist families there in summer?

Just seems like a dorky place to be on a summer weekend unless I missed a memo that wasn't distributed to old people.

 

[epiphany]

I'd like to know if JL saw the "group" at Sawyers. From the video interview, she never mentions them and doesn't even mention them walking with her to Hardware Bar.

Respectfully BBM:

Leaton said she had been with Stouffer earlier in the evening.

"I was very surprised to see her, I didn't know she was coming out. I just hung out with them for a little bit...

http://www.abc27.com/story/19277363...yra-woman-talks-about-night-out-in-harrisburg

 

[cw028]

My son, he's spoken to officers four, five days in a row,” stated Milton Rodriguez Sr., father of Milt. According to Rodriguez's dad, Pruett and Stouffer dropped Rodriguez off around 2 a.m

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/sto...-people-to-see-go/bAX_BcURmEiXYJ72b7K8LA.cspx

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They would've left downtown at 1:30 (not when bars closed) and got back at 2:00. We'll presume that Kortne and CP got to her apt around 2:15 (just for a round number). An hour later cops were called because of Kortne and neighbor arguing. At this point, it appears she is still ok and not being held against her will or anything. So whatever had happened between 2:00 and 3:49 (when officer leaves) appears to not be a factor in her missing.

Having been at the Gas Station myself frequently, I would suggest that she arrived there between 10:00-10:30. That's when the young crowd arrives and the DJ starts spinning. From there, they went downtown. The pizza would've been a midnight snack...not dinner. The night didn't start at Sawyers. From there, they went to the Hardware bar and probably planned on staying until 2:00 but then she was asked to leave. I would suggest that she was also flagged (in addition to fight?) and bouncers at other bars on 2nd street were alerted to no allow her in. That's why they all just decided to leave instead of hopping to another bar real quick.

Just a couple things I wanted to give my input on for the non locals who don't know these establishments

 

[cluciano63]

I wonder if her car key is separate from her house key, not on the same ring.

 

[fringles]

In this scenario, how does her car get back to her apartment with the keys in it?

Ha, yeah that's a thing - but I can think of ways, and given the lack of info about anyone being with her prior to those guys, and particularly if the keys were in it, it makes more sense to me than anything else at this point - though not a lot about this makes a huge amount of sense!

I've seen it happen that way - someone drives out, then gets drunk and leaves their car. Hummelstown is sort of on the way back to Palmyra, is that right? So my thought was that someone picked it up, at some point. Which to me gives a possible reason for why the keys would be in it - when they dropped it off nobody was home, or they thought everyone was sleeping, so they left the keys in it. Maybe they did a stop in the Acura and someone jumped out and drove it home? I realise this is a bit far-fetched, but if the keys WERE in it when it was found at her house, that seems super weird to me - who keeps their car keys seperate from the house ones?

basically it's just an idea about how she maybe got to Hummelstown...and definitely not a perfect one!

 

[cw028]

In this scenario, how does her car get back to her apartment with the keys in it?

To other locals who are younger than me (practically anyone)-

Who stays at The Gas Station long enough to get wasted? Srsly. The drinks arent particularly interesting or cheap, there's no dancing -is there?- and the food is pedestrian at best.

Aren't there a fair number of tourist families there in summer?

Just seems like a dorky place to be on a summer weekend unless I missed a memo that wasn't distributed to old people.

I think you missed the memo. It's a actually a pretty big hotspot outside of downtown. It's always PACKED on Saturday nights especially. The area going back towards the bathroom is transformed into a dance floor and the couches right behind it in the other section make for a little "club" feel. I would highly suggest going there in the near future. I'd say 8% of the crowd is 40+ and 25% 30+. I think the median age would be about 26-27.

The draft beers are usually $2 and on themed nights like halloween weekend, st patty's day weekend, etc there are $1 drinks. It's difficult to walk around that place on a Sat night. Kind of reminds me of Molly's downtown but on a tad smaller scale.

Oh and yeah no one goes before 10:00 pm. No families are out there at that time. It is made up of mostly Lower Dauphin alums, Hershey and Palmyra ranging from 21-35. A pretty diverse crowd as well.

 

[JurysOut]

Respectfully BBM:

Leaton said she had been with Stouffer earlier in the evening.

"I was very surprised to see her, I didn't know she was coming out. I just hung out with them for a little bit...

http://www.abc27.com/story/19277363...yra-woman-talks-about-night-out-in-harrisburg

Everyone knows who will be out if they're FB friends or friends of friends.

It seems like Kortne didn't indicate that she expected to be 'out'. Why the spur of the moment, possibly out of character night out?

-If KS was indeed at The Gas Station, how'd she get there?
-Did anyone aside from Milt Jr see KS there?
-When JL saw KS, it was apparent to JL that KS was 'with them' and hadn't just run into 'them' as JL had. So JL stood around and had a drink with them.
-Was JL out alone?
-Who are CP & MR not giving up and why?

I can't see their FB chatter, but I was pretty sure earlier this week that CP & MR were posting to and about each other, not a lot of extra people. Of course, they didn't mention KS, either. Not even on the 29th.

Any or all if the above could be a jumble of errors.

 

[JurysOut]

I think you missed the memo. It's a actually a pretty big hotspot outside of downtown. It's always PACKED on Saturday nights especially. The area going back towards the bathroom is transformed into a dance floor and the couches right behind it in the other section make for a little "club" feel. I would highly suggest going there in the near future. I'd say 8% of the crowd is 40+ and 25% 30+. I think the median age would be about 26-27.

The draft beers are usually $2 and on themed nights like halloween weekend, st patty's day weekend, etc there are $1 drinks. It's difficult to walk around that place on a Sat night. Kind of reminds me of Molly's downtown but on a tad smaller scale.

Ah ha. Thanks!

Do they make a decent martini? In pitchers?

That's a small area where the couches are, isn't it? Not important....

 

[sreshowtime]

( Hey JO, spork in the knife rack, LOL thanks I need a laugh'bout something)

 

[epiphany]

Perhaps, she has compartmentalized her groups of friends a little bit. Friends from high school, friends from work connections, friends from an old boyfriend, friends from her current boyfriend, friends she's met from the bar scene, etc.

IMO, nothing unusual about this at this age. She appears to me to be outgoing and fluid.

One group of friends does not necessarily know everything about the other group/s of friends, though they may like to think so, nor necessarily about every move she makes on a particular evening.

 

[SurfieTX]

I wonder if they found Kortne's ID. Reason I ask is - back in my days of clubbing, I would always carry my ID in my pocket. I'd never take a purse or wallet. The times I did over-indulge, I almost always forgot to take my ID out of my pocket when I got home.

 

[JurysOut]

Ha, yeah that's a thing - but I can think of ways, and given the lack of info about anyone being with her prior to those guys, and particularly if the keys were in it, it makes more sense to me than anything else at this point - though not a lot about this makes a huge amount of sense!

I've seen it happen that way - someone drives out, then gets drunk and leaves their car. Hummelstown is sort of on the way back to Palmyra, is that right? So my thought was that someone picked it up, at some point. Which to me gives a possible reason for why the keys would be in it - when they dropped it off nobody was home, or they thought everyone was sleeping, so they left the keys in it. Maybe they did a stop in the Acura and someone jumped out and drove it home? I realise this is a bit far-fetched, but if the keys WERE in it when it was found at her house, that seems super weird to me - who keeps their car keys seperate from the house ones?

basically it's just an idea about how she maybe got to Hummelstown...and definitely not a perfect one!

I thought about someone driving her car back and KS telling them to just leave the keys in the car. So who was that?

From Harrisburg, where The Gas Station sits is not really on the way. It'd be kind of a pain in the butt at two AM to get off of 322 & drive around back there...but if somebody in the Acura was griping about picking up their car, I can see dropping someone off, sure.

Unless that person was familiar with where KS lived & parked, would it be likely that whoever drove KS's car followed the Acura to KS's apartment?

How'd she get in the house without her keys?

What do we actually know about the keys? Is it one key in the car? No keys in the car? Keys in the house?

-Car Wash for Kortne at Boscov's, Lebanon Valley Mall

 

[OldSteve]

She's bar hopping: she doesn't have her car. They're [MR, Jr. and "the group"] bar hopping.

We don't know who Kortne began her evening with at the Gas Station Pub in Hummelstown, but MR, Jr. and "the group" were with her in all 3 bars and...

Kortne was in MR, Jr.'s car with them/others, in the very least, until her arrival back to her apartment, which appears to have been shortly after 2 AM.

Whether or not MR, Jr. continued with Guest and possibly others to Kortne's place, or was indeed dropped off at his place at about 2 AM, I'm not sure. However, MR, Jr. does state that there were others in his car with Guest and Kortne when he last saw her.

In a way, reminds me of Lauren Spierer's case - she was surronded by "friends" yet no one saw anything happen to her.
This case has the added dimension of including police visits to her apartment just before she's gone...

 

[cluciano63]

In a way, reminds me of Lauren Spierer's case - she was surronded by "friends" yet no one saw anything happen to her.
This case has the added dimension of including police visits to her apartment just before she's gone...

I have posted this twice already...hope the conclusion comes sooner...

 

[JurysOut]

-if someone drove Kortne's car back to her apartment, they'd have gotten there within minutes of CP, KS & possibly others.

So how did *that* driver leave? On foot?

LE was pretty quick to impound her car, IMO

I'm starting to agree that more than CP & KS probably returned to her apartment.

Alternately, someone else drove KS to The Gas Station, if she was really there.

Either way, we have 2-5 unnamed people.

 

[epiphany]

In a way, reminds me of Lauren Spierer's case - she was surronded by "friends" yet no one saw anything happen to her.
This case has the added dimension of including police visits to her apartment just before she's gone...

And as in that case, the young adults, her peers, her friends, her acquaintances... hesitate to come forward or speak due to, IMO, not only the social network explosion and current state of the "media", but also to whatever it is they themselves may or may not be doing that their parents or others had not known about previously.

 

[JurysOut]

I have posted this twice already...hope the conclusion comes sooner...

I think the 'friends' in this case are responsible for whatever happened and it probably happened in her apartment or car.

 

[fringles]

I thought about someone driving her car back and KS telling them to just leave the keys in the car. So who was that?

Yeah that's what I was thinking - imagining 'I need my car, I have work, can't we stop and pick up my car' yada yada. I was imagining her taking her car keys off her main keyring and giving them to someone.

But your point about following them - you're right. And then it would make no sense to leave her keys in the car - wouldn't the person just bring the keys into the house, since they were all going in?

If I try imagine a reason why not, the only thing I can come up with is that the person driving her car was delayed for some reason - to pick something up, or drop someone off, and by the time they got there, the party was over. But they'd need to know where the house is, or have a phone with maps (is that common in this area? I know that I and pretty much all my friends do, but we're a little older and we're in London) Plus this is all a big leap since we don't know if this even happened, or, for that matter, if the keys were even in the car!

It's probably completely irrelevant as well - I often think, if you were trying to track and explain my movements on a night out, it'd look like one bizarre mystery after another, but it all seems perfectly reasonable at the time.

My theory is still that this is an accidental OD, rather than a murder...I just keep getting sidetracked by details.

 

[JurysOut]

What's up with the BF & KS?

Why is she so hell bent on being out when he's not around?

She's either unhappy that he's not there and is raising hell in his face or she's DELIGHTED that he's not there and is celebrating.

Wish we could see the text/call logs from that Saturday.