PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #3

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Unless it is confirmed by LE, I am not buying the polygraph stories taken or passed. And since LE is not talking, we don't really know. Part of sleuthing is looking at the so-called "facts" and trying the pieces out. As more info is made available, more scenarios are likely. Rumors are just that, although sometimes there is a grain of truth in what acquaintances, etc. reveal.

Either LE has the "goods" and is waiting for the appropriate time to strike, or they don't have enough proof to name a POI, eg, bring charges that the DA believe are strong enough for a conviction. In several of the recent cases I followed, LE was silent, then wham! Arrests were made. On the other hand, some cases from 20 years ago remain unsolved. We'll just have to wait and see.

Hi, Annie. Generally, for very good reasons, law enforcement does not release details about lie detector cases.

On an unrelated point, the statements by Kortne's father (especially) and the downstairs neighbors seem to me to strengthen the presumption that the crime scene did not occur in the apartment. (In what would have been almost certainly a relatively spontaneous, bloody act of violence and body transport, such evidence would have been present.)

The theories that she could not have left alive have been defended here mostly by the supposed fact that she was not wearing shoes (based on whose total recall of her belongings?) and the fact that her cellphone had been left in the apartment. To me, the latter seems to ignore cogent factors: The hour (Who exactly would Kortne be planning to call at 4:30 in the morning?) and her condition (she had been drinking, perhaps smoking weed, and, in any case, was still probably supercharged from an evening and night of high intensity events).

Also, in what seems to have been a hostile home environment (not to mention, multiple police visits that very night), it would seem likely that "hippy" Kortne would smoke marijuana outside the building rather than risk another incident. A pre-bed tote is something that one of my college friends (now a Methodist minister) habitually did. So, in my mind at least, that remains a real possibility.
 
We only know she was angry. We don't know if she was drunk.

Hi, JoCoKSEyes. I think that it's quite reasonable to assume that she was drunk, given the time that her long night of drinking in several places, her light weight, her somewhat out of control behavior, and the fact that she was asked to leave a bar after that long night of drinking.
 
Fact? Really? We have conflicting reports on that.

The denials were that she was not thrown out, not that she was not asked to leave. Her father acknowledged that she had been asked to leave.

There are multiple reports of her having arguments in bars that morning. Do you actually believe that she was sober after what seems to have been an extended party from early night to the next morning? If that were true, her behavior as some one sober would have been even more alarming.
 
Sometimes I think LE is just as interested in whether or not someone agrees to taking a LD test, as in the result. Maybe they asked MR and he said he would and they never gave it to him. Or maybe he did take one. Do we know for sure he did not? As far as I know, no one places him at Kortne's building.

I thought the bar said that no one was thrown out that night?
 
Right. But who brought the car back?!!

Arg!

In my mind, I just picture CP driving her car. Since the neighbors only report of one friend there (as far as we know, at least upon arriving home,) I figure he probably drove her car.

That would also align with the theory that MR loves his car and wouldn't probably want someone to drive it.

CP was said to have been the designated driver but most likely wasn't sober. I think this was just stated because of his recent run in with the law involving a vehicle.

I'm sure that CP initially wanted to cover his butt for driving but if innocent with Kortne's disappearance, maybe didn't realize the seriousness of what was to follow.

Also, with this theory of him driving her car with her in it leaves me with the idea they they got home and immediately saw the neighbor/s and it was a quick bolt to confront them. Maybe in a rush, CP ran after her and forgot the keys.

Just thoughts :)
 
It has been reported that Hardware Bar management says nobody was kicked out or otherwise asked to leave that night.
 
Chanler I think it's very reasonable to assume Kortne was inebriated that night. For many reasons, but one of the biggest indicators imo, was the physical confrontation with TS. It doesn't seem that Kortne was in control of her emotions that night. With some people, alcohol suppresses their normal ability to control their impulses. I suspect that may be the case with Kortne.

I also haven't discounted some type of drug use, added with the alcohol.
 
Hi, Annie. Generally, for very good reasons, law enforcement does not release details about lie detector cases.

.

Oh, I'm quite aware of that - my post was toward those who claim to have taken polygraphs and passed.

While we may not have a lot of facts, we have enough to speculate on, and that was my point, eg, no one is innocent until this case is solved. That is what sleuthing is all about! There are no tidy solutions, IMO, this ain't television.
 
Sometimes I think LE is just as interested in whether or not someone agrees to taking a LD test, as in the result. Maybe they asked MR and he said he would and they never gave it to him. Or maybe he did take one. Do we know for sure he did not? As far as I know, no one places him at Kortne's building.

I thought the bar said that no one was thrown out that night?

Hi clu. We do not know whether or not MR took a polygraph. It has not been reported that he did, AFAIK. We only had confirmation of CP taking one, and no mention of results.
 
Oh, I'm quite aware of that - my post was toward those who claim to have taken polygraphs and passed.

While we may not have a lot of facts, we have enough to speculate on, and that was my point, eg, no one is innocent until this case is solved. That is what sleuthing is all about! There are no tidy solutions, IMO, this ain't television.

Würd.

Nothing is sacred. No one gets a pass.


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Hi, JoCoKSEyes. I think that it's quite reasonable to assume that she was drunk, given the time that her long night of drinking in several places, her light weight, her somewhat out of control behavior, and the fact that she was asked to leave a bar after that long night of drinking.

It seems that her folks are just now learning aspects of kourtnes life...i think its possible that she could have been having some kind of break or manic episode... just sayin - lots of things could have been hapening and no one who knew her as well as her family were there and could have seen the signs kwim?
 
It seems that her folks are just now learning aspects of kourtnes life...i think its possible that she could have been having some kind of break or manic episode... just sayin - lots of things could have been hapening and no one who knew her as well as her family were there and could have seen the signs kwim?

I've been wondering about mania or something. Something was off, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It seems that her folks are just now learning aspects of kourtnes life...i think its possible that she could have been having some kind of break or manic episode... just sayin - lots of things could have been hapening and no one who knew her as well as her family were there and could have seen the signs kwim?

I originally thought the same thing. However, my idea was she was completely distraught over her boyfriend's likely long incarceration (reportedly she thought this was the case), and anything else not going her way (maybe owing money, etc.), and she walked off on her own and hurt herself.

But, tweaking it, she could have got into a car with the wrong person.

Side note- I remember I went to college with a guy who (while using drugs and alcohol) attempted to walk 90 miles to his home one night.

Just thoughts.
 
1. Kortne is missing
2. Two kids were charged with underage drinking while at her apartment
3. LE made 3 visits to her apartment (2 totally verified - 1 driveby??)
4. Last person to see Kortne that we have verification for is CP
5. Kortne worked 3 jobs
6. Kortne has a black lab named Sheba
 
This is the stolen machine. The details were in one of the links originally posted by Lois Lane
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #3

I don't think this was the stolen machine, nothing in their post stated that this was the kind of machine that was stolen, and I beleive they were just pointing out the kind of machine they were talking about. I never seen any news reports or details taht stated what kind of machine it was.
 
No one knows. A friend of TS insists he's a lovely person who simply misspoke and only has an attorney because the attorney is TS's employer.

I have trouble understanding how someone involved in an altercation that included law enforcement could misspeak in that particular fashion.

The newspapers have also given false information and misleading information int his case from the start. SO whats not to say the newspaper didn't do the same here. If not then I completely understand where ya'll are coming from because that wouldn't make sense why he would say that when he was the one who made the call. And yes only reason he has an attorney is because he works for one.
 
I don't think this was the stolen machine, nothing in their post stated that this was the kind of machine that was stolen, and I beleive they were just pointing out the kind of machine they were talking about. I never seen any news reports or details taht stated what kind of machine it was.

Au contraire, please see post #813 for the Pennlive link re the money counting machine (Carnation) reported stolen by a 21-year-old female who lived in the 800 block of west Main Street.
 
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