PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #6

[jns207]

A couple things stuck out while reading about the search of the lake and I'm hoping someone with more knowledge about water searches might be able to add some insight.

From Richrd's link (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/in...eer_searcher_concludes_k.html#incart_m-rpt-2) (BBM):

And he found several points of interest. But he said he was unable to take a closer look at those areas with his submergible camera because there was heavy boat traffic to contend with, and the glare of the sun would have washed out the screen the camera images would have appeared on. Regulations at the state-owned lake prevented him from searching the lake at night.

He also didn't submerge his camera because he would have had to sign another contract with the state allowing him to do so. He said it wouldn't have been worth his time in the end, because the sections of the lake he wanted to focus on are "favorite" fishing holes where he couldn't conduct a proper, uninterrupted search.

From an earlier article on the search (www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/05/scuba_diver_presses_on_with_se.html) (BBM):

Palmer centered on about 55 points of interest while reviewing his first set of scans he collected from Memorial Lake. Using a submersible camera, he plans to take a closer look at all 55, because they could be anything from a tree stump to a rolled up carpet. So far, Palmer has studied 12 of the 55 with the camera.

I guess I have two main questions. First, I'm a little puzzled about the take away from that first article. The title and overall message implied that the lake could be crossed off the list of places where KS could be located. Yet, to someone like myself, who isn't familiar with the standard procedure for "completing" a water search like this, the details in the article didn't really convince me that KS couldn't be in the lake. So my question would be whether this level of uncertainty (due to incomplete scanning) is normal for this type of search? This article got me thinking about all of the other water searches in others cases and I'm curious about the accuracy (or perhaps completeness/ margin of error?) of statements claiming that a body of water has been cleared by searchers.

Second, I'm confused by the discussion of submersible cameras. In the earlier article (the second link), Palmer says he identified 55 points of interest, 12 of which he had already further investigated with his submersible camera. But in the recent article (the first link), one of the reasons given for not using the submersible cameras was that an additional state contract would have been needed. So did he sign a contract for use of the submersible cameras and it expired sometime after those first 12 points of interest were searched? Or was the camera never submerged in the first place? Just trying to sort that out, as it added further uncertainty for me about eliminating the lake from the list of possibilities.


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[Trackergd]

You are not the only one confused, but then news articles tend to have some degree of error and conflict with earlier articles.

The PSP used a ROV, an underwater camera robot/submarine to search. It was the exact unit I wanted to purchase until I found out how much it cost.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

It was a very nice vigil/celebration last night. And the slide show was very moving.

Regarding Corey B., yes, he was one of the guys at Kortne’s little get-together that evening.
Just another one of the circle of friends who continues to get into trouble.
If you look at CB’s rap sheet since Kortne went missing, there are things on there that make you wonder.

 

[Trackergd]

It was a very nice vigil/celebration last night. And the slide show was very moving.

Regarding Corey B., yes, he was one of the guys at Kortne’s little get-together that evening.
Just another one of the circle of friends who continues to get into trouble.
If you look at CB’s rap sheet since Kortne went missing, there are things on there that make you wonder.

I would hope that LE is keeping close tabs on him and his associates in case one of them gets jammed up and is willing to spill.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

I would hope that LE is keeping close tabs on him and his associates in case one of them gets jammed up and is willing to spill.

Well I'd say he's pretty jammed up with charges that he committed two stick-ups and a heroin charge on top of that. If he knows something, now would be a good time to make a deal.

Interesting that his accomplice was a woman whom he almost choked to death last year and who testified against him in court.

http://www.ldnews.com/ci_23132692/police-fire-log-4-30

 

[Trackergd]

That is interesting. If he's the guilty party, he's not about to rat himself out and put the needle in his arm....

 

[coppeekat]

The house her apartment was located is perhaps 4 or 5 houses from the Hershey/Palmyra line, on the south side of the street...her apartment entrance was on the west side of that house. Complete opposite end of Palmyra from where Annville is. Apparently the apartment has been rented for several months now.

 

[coppeekat]

The nite of the vigil in Campbelltown at the end of July 2014, Kortne's dad Scott announced he received a lead. He only shared it with LE, he did not want it shared publicly. No clue what it could be, but I hope it's a good lead.
I live local and so many things about this case are confusing and some just make no sense.
My personal feeling is the guy with her that nite must know something.
The police were called the 3rd time (very shortly after they left on the 2nd call), because the neighbors called the cops due to a ruckus from up in Kortne's apartment. It was assumed Kortne was throwing an anger fit and that's why the neighbors called the police. But what if she was being attacked at that moment? What if someone had broken into her place and hid in her apartmen before her and her friend arrived that nite and came out when the cops left? Did her friend hear the police knocking on the door? Why didn't the neighbors answer the door when the police knocked on their door, especially since they were expecting them? What did they say about not answering? Police don't knock in a friendly way....did they really knock on those two doors? If no one answered, why were they on that last call so long?
Did the guy with Kortne that nite pass his lie detector test? Did the others with her that nite take one?
Who was this woman Kortne got into a fight with that nite? If LE knows, why not put it out there in hopes of bringing forth witnesses or other people that may know more about the involvement those two had with each other?
Were there recent calls or texts received/sent from the cell phone Kortne left behind?
Hard to believe with all the businesses along Main Street in Palmyra and Hershey that there wasn't one business that had a camera that could perhaps catch video of passing vehicles during that time frame in the wee hours of that morning.
It's a quiet, crime free town. My guess is Kortne was not a random victim that nite....and if she was, then she had the worst streak of luck imaginable in that 24 hour period when everything went haywire.
I think someone who was with her that nite, or came into contact with her, knows something.
Not sure what kind of job LE is doing since they put nothing out there....my feeling is if they DID release more info it might jog someones memory or encourage someone to come forward....as it seems now this case falls into the woodwork except for the random media coverage provided to usually her father. It's natural to be suspicious as to the secrecy of the case, especially since it's said their isn't any progress.
Just my thoughts....

 

[Trackergd]

I wonder what the lead was/is.

And bumping for Kortne...

 

[Topcat]

considering all the "players" from that night starting at the bar where she had a confrontation to the ruckus at her apartment yet nothing has "leaked out " from that night. CB has got to be on the top of the list due to his violent behavior towards women and his drug involvement. I'm throwing this out there..what if Kortne owed drug money to the guy in the bar (the one she had a ruckus with) and tried to get money from CB knowing he was a dealer...maybe she said something she shouldn't have and he reacted to it...the whole episode with police knocking and getting no response from neighbors got me thinking that maybe the neighbors didn't answer because Kortne/friend would have known it was them who called and feared retribution..especially how she reacted the first time when she confronted the neighbors...just a thought

 

[Topcat]

The nite of the vigil in Campbelltown at the end of July 2014, Kortne's dad Scott announced he received a lead. He only shared it with LE, he did not want it shared publicly. No clue what it could be, but I hope it's a good lead.
I live local and so many things about this case are confusing and some just make no sense.
My personal feeling is the guy with her that nite must know something.
The police were called the 3rd time (very shortly after they left on the 2nd call), because the neighbors called the cops due to a ruckus from up in Kortne's apartment. It was assumed Kortne was throwing an anger fit and that's why the neighbors called the police. But what if she was being attacked at that moment? What if someone had broken into her place and hid in her apartmen before her and her friend arrived that nite and came out when the cops left? Did her friend hear the police knocking on the door? Why didn't the neighbors answer the door when the police knocked on their door, especially since they were expecting them? What did they say about not answering? Police don't knock in a friendly way....did they really knock on those two doors? If no one answered, why were they on that last call so long?
Did the guy with Kortne that nite pass his lie detector test? Did the others with her that nite take one?
Who was this woman Kortne got into a fight with that nite? If LE knows, why not put it out there in hopes of bringing forth witnesses or other people that may know more about the involvement those two had with each other?
Were there recent calls or texts received/sent from the cell phone Kortne left behind?
Hard to believe with all the businesses along Main Street in Palmyra and Hershey that there wasn't one business that had a camera that could perhaps catch video of passing vehicles during that time frame in the wee hours of that morning.
It's a quiet, crime free town. My guess is Kortne was not a random victim that nite....and if she was, then she had the worst streak of luck imaginable in that 24 hour period when everything went haywire.
I think someone who was with her that nite, or came into contact with her, knows something.
Not sure what kind of job LE is doing since they put nothing out there....my feeling is if they DID release more info it might jog someones memory or encourage someone to come forward....as it seems now this case falls into the woodwork except for the random media coverage provided to usually her father. It's natural to be suspicious as to the secrecy of the case, especially since it's said their isn't any progress.
Just my thoughts....

I wonder why her father would even say he had a lead ,,unless he felt he could shake things up...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

considering all the "players" from that night starting at the bar where she had a confrontation to the ruckus at her apartment yet nothing has "leaked out " from that night. CB has got to be on the top of the list due to his violent behavior towards women and his drug involvement. I'm throwing this out there..what if Kortne owed drug money to the guy in the bar (the one she had a ruckus with) and tried to get money from CB knowing he was a dealer...maybe she said something she shouldn't have and he reacted to it...the whole episode with police knocking and getting no response from neighbors got me thinking that maybe the neighbors didn't answer because Kortne/friend would have known it was them who called and feared retribution..especially how she reacted the first time when she confronted the neighbors...just a thought

If she owed some drug money, that could open the door to a voluntary departure.

 

[Topcat]

I think it would be unusual for someone to leave a place of residence without taking anything or communicating with no one and not having a mode of transportation to leave in the middle of the night..keep in mind she wasn't alone that night.imo, I don't see it..

 

[alliemay]

I don't really see it either but I am glad there is interest in this thread. My initial thoughts were, that she went outside to cool off, after all of the drinking along with the anger at that time in the morning, I don't see her as being ready to lay her head down on a pillow and just forget about it. She did not take any of her belongings so what ever happened was not planned. I still think she went out on her own and maybe sat in someone's car that she knew and from there it went all down hill. I am glad for the interest in her case what ever the opinions from others may be.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think it would be unusual for someone to leave a place of residence without taking anything or communicating with no one and not having a mode of transportation to leave in the middle of the night..keep in mind she wasn't alone that night.imo, I don't see it..

It is unusual, but that could be explained if she left because of a debt.

If there was a determination that KS was in debt, that would open the door.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Interesting aspects of the third 911 call (sound disturbance) the evening of KS' disappearance:

LE knocked on KS' door .. no response. KS was not alone at that time, or to be more accurate as per reports, CP (referenced in this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/21/kortne-stouffer-milton-rodriguez-cody-pruett_n_1818359.html) slept over that evening. He is reported to have told LE he "woke up at 7:00 AM and Kortne was gone, so I left." After leaving he went to a local convenience store and eventually sent a text to KS' phone: "Woke up. You were gone. What happened to you?"

LE also knocked on the downstairs neighbor's door .. no response. If the 911 call was placed by that neighbor and given the history of the alleged interactions between said neighbors and KS it seems suspicious that LE did not check on the neighbors well-being, or even KS' well-being.

Much more info at this link: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

 

[ChuckMaureen]

KS' car, blue Ford Focus, parked behind her duplex, June 2012:

http://goo.gl/maps/KNKO8

Also, notice the various locations where KS could have hidden (if she indeed wanted to 'disappear') or have been hidden by someone (for later 'retrieval'): utility shed, aluminum boats leaning against a next-door building, dumpsters, garages, etc.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Note: KS did some modeling, which would expose her to a wider group of persons than simply her regular friends and friends of friends. It is possible someone might have been watching KS during her modeling gigs, planning and waiting for an opportunity? The question is, was the "stomping her feet" episode (as reported in the third 911 call that night) indeed that or, was it a brief struggle? An article reported KS left her shoes behind and was wearing clothes she had on earlier (at the Hardware Bar). Was she stomping her bare feet? ouch! This is what leads me to believe it was a struggle, and when LE arrived for that third call KS and the person/s with whom she had struggled were still in the dwelling but remained quiet so as not to have to confront LE or .. KS was subdued until LE left.

IMO, LE dropped the ball when they left the area without ensuring well-being of the parties allegedly involved with the third 911 call. It is possible there would not have been a reason for these KS threads to even exist....

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo, it would too coincidental, Imo, on such a wild night if her disappearance had nothing to do with the altercation in the bar (owing money? Something like that?) or the business at her apartment building. It had to be related to one of those events, Imo.

 

[Trackergd]

The fact that none of her personal effects were missing and she did not take them with her makes me lean towards abduction rather than walk away. The Hardware Bar is closed so I can't go in and sniff for clues.