PA - Leon Katz, infant, murdered, and twin, injured by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[abyquinn]

Maybe, maybe, BUT it's open to interpretation. You're taking what her attorney and the media says and making it into a fact that they were close friends in person, not just online educational colleagues. If someone can link the details background of this close friendship, please do.

@abyquinn, please know your post makes some valid points. I value your opinion and thoughts. It's just that we have to try not to fill in the blanks with our own scenarios and state them where people might take it as fact. It's rumor without MSM links and facts. Someone else thinks NV lived in PA and that's how the two women were friends, but I've seen nothing that proves that's true yet.
​

Thank you Curious, I’m sorry I think I posted here just before falling asleep, I wish I had been around to discuss when you first commented. I wasn’t trying to cause confusion. I definitely need to start taking notes & not relying on memory bc it just isn’t as sharp as it was back when! So yes, I was basing their friendship on the comment from her attorney but also based on NV living in the same area as mom when she was younger. IDK where I read that, somewhere in MSM. Also NV’s father still works in NY, would it be out of the question for a physician to work in NY but live in PA? I was born in the east but have spent most of my life in CA, currently in AZ, so I don’t know what is doable or not on the Right side of the US. It seemed to me you can get just about anywhere by train there and quickly!

 

[abyquinn]

Do we know if it was this type of bouncer?

View attachment 524062

https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Starts-Playful-Pinwheels-Bouncer/dp/B00KHR7TPK

This is the exact seat I bought for my last grand. IIRC the info on the box stated for slightly older babies. I didn’t use it the first couple weeks bc of the way his chin dropped down on his chest, but yes, by 6 weeks old he was big enough. BC of the amount of room in the seat area you could probably leave a young baby in this seat without the belt being buckled unlike those bigger seats that the baby is sitting higher up. I didn’t and wouldn’t recommend it, but some ppl probably do without hurting their babies. The seat has to be manually bounced. It will vibrate if turned on but doesn’t bounce on it’s own.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Also NV’s father still works in NY, would it be out of the question for a physician to work in NY but live in PA?

Pittsburgh to even the southeastern most point of New York State is a solid 2+ hour drive. New York City is 6+ hours. So it would not be a feasible commute. Possible for a doctor who works via telephone or video conference.

jmo

 

[abyquinn]

MOO here, infants, gosh, I can't imagine leaving an out of town guest with my infants. Her calling the police on the parents would've been outrageous, I'd think, not knowing how the injuries occurred, not seeing any abuse happening. An out of town guest calling the police seems a bit much. Some diaper rashes can look like negligent parenting.


​

I’m really lost on this. Is there a question about whether or not NV called the Police on the parents?

 

[SMK777]

This is the exact seat I bought for my last grand. IIRC the info on the box stated for slightly older babies. I didn’t use it the first couple weeks bc of the way his chin dropped down on his chest, but yes, by 6 weeks old he was big enough. BC of the amount of room in the seat area you could probably leave a young baby in this seat without the belt being buckled unlike those bigger seats that the baby is sitting higher up. I didn’t and wouldn’t recommend it, but some ppl probably do without hurting their babies. The seat has to be manually bounced. It will vibrate if turned on but doesn’t bounce on it’s own.

Do you think it’s possible for a baby to fall from it and severely fracture its skull? It doesn’t sound like it, nor did the Children’s Hospital physician think it possible that the injuries were caused by anything but child abuse. Still, the defense will likely try and argue for accident.

 

[abyquinn]

Do you think it’s possible for a baby to fall from it and severely fracture its skull? It doesn’t sound like it, nor did the Children’s Hospital physician think it possible that the injuries were caused by anything but child abuse. Still, the defense will likely try and argue for accident.

I honestly don’t think so. They really sit nestled into this when they are little. If I can find a picture of him sitting in it I’ll post it, I didn’t use it much until he was older bc it was more fun to hold him.

 

[Curious Me]

I’m really lost on this. Is there a question about whether or not NV called the Police on the parents?​

No, see the quoted posts below. We were discussing whether we'd call the police if it was us, as a guest in the home, to report seeing genital injuries on a baby that looked suspicious. If NV called the police about genital injuries on the one twin, then of course, the parent's would be included in an investigation.

The Jurors at trial will get to see pictures of these injuries and hear professional medical doctors testify, but we have to try to imagine how bad those injuries looked and how they could've happened. NV told the parents about them, but we don't know under what circumstances.
​

If I was babysitting and noticed scratching, bruising, and the other things already mentioned in this thread that were on that infant's genitals... I would think calling the police would be the best thing to do IF you suspected the parents. You wouldn't think she'd tell the parents something they likely did and would just make excuses for.

So due to that it really makes me question who did it and even though they say to wait for all the facts to come forth (always a good idea) right now it makes me think the babysitter/NV did it simply for not calling the police with her suspicions. I'll see where my suspicions go when more info is released.

All I can say, speaking for myself only, is those genital injuries would have to be blatant as intentional abusive injuries for me to call the police and not ask the parents about them first. Of note, the parents did rush to the hospital with the injured twin. (So it wasn't something they did and were trying to hide, most likely, but then again, ya never know early in a case.)​

I think it's mandatory protocol that the hospital has to notify the police or CPS if the injuries looked intentional and suspicious. I'm just having a hard time imagining the extent of the injuries. Scratches?

MOO here, infants, gosh, I can't imagine leaving an out of town guest with my infants. Her calling the police on the parents would've been outrageous, I'd think, not knowing how the injuries occurred, not seeing any abuse happening. An out of town guest calling the police seems a bit much. Some diaper rashes can look like negligent parenting.

So many things can pop up with kids, in general. The genital injuries must've looked so bad that the parents felt it necessary to rush to the hospital, so they must've been more than mild scratches. The hospital would've brought in the police if they thought the injuries were abuse. Hope my post makes sense. All MOO ​

snipped for statement...The baby's twin, whose name was not immediately available, was examined and found to have scratches, bruises, swelling and redness, according to court documents.​

Woman Charged With Killing Pittsburgh Infant, Injuring His Twin

A woman has been charged with homicide following the death of a six-week-old baby in Pittsburgh.

patch.com

I can't even image what happened to cause those sorts of injuries to a 6 week old baby.

 

[Curious Me]

PhD student accused of murdering close friend’s newborn baby, abusing tot’s twin is daughter of prominent NYC cardiologist

The friend said she did not know Virzi to be violent but said she said she “had some interpersonal issues. I would say she was a little rigid. She was nice. But very driven and motivated.&#82…

nypost.com

Woman Charged With Killing Pittsburgh Infant, Injuring His Twin

A woman has been charged with homicide following the death of a six-week-old baby in Pittsburgh.

patch.com

Woman accused of killing infant, assaulting his twin brother in Shadyside

According to investigators, one of the twins, 6-week-old Leon Katz, died of blunt-force trauma to the head.

www.wtae.com

San Diego woman faces trial in killing of one Pittsburgh baby twin, assault on other

Nicole Virzi, a 29-year-old psychology doctoral student, was brought from jail to court for the proceeding and the courtroom was filled with family and friends of the parents of the twins, who were present as well.

www.wtae.com

"Virzi remains in the Allegheny County Jail. Her formal arraignment is set for Aug. 23. That's when the case will be assigned to a judge and she'll enter her plea."

​

 

[Curious Me]

This is the exact seat I bought for my last grand. IIRC the info on the box stated for slightly older babies. I didn’t use it the first couple weeks bc of the way his chin dropped down on his chest, but yes, by 6 weeks old he was big enough....snipped to reply​

Whichever bounce seat it ends up being, one big question is-- if a 6 week old infant, if not strapped in, could he squirm his way into falling from it and getting a fatal head injury?

Some seats like the one you had look deep-seated. I think it also would depend on where the seat was placed too. Someone brought up that if it was on a counter and not on the floor the fall would be more severe. If it was on the floor it puzzles me more. Could a infant that age squirm into such a fall? A fatal fall. Losing Leon was and is heartbreaking. The details leading up to that night are vague, but very odd and questionable how something could happen to both twins.

​

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Caring for twin infants is difficult, but not once did I ever thinking of harming my twins. I could see how it could be very stressful for someone who isn't used to caring for a baby and isn't the parent. I don't see how anyone could harm a baby either. I would like to know if this was the first time Nicole was asked to babysit or if she had already been babysitting for them. How long was Nicole planning to be in town for? She had a short term rental. Did she visit thinking she was going to be spending quality time with her friend, only to have all of her friend time revolving around the babies and being asked to babysit instead? Was there a love triangle going on? None of this excuses the abuse, but what was her motive?

I wonder if NV had been abused. Maybe that's another reason for her dissertation choice on traumatized women and health issues. I can't imagine why anyone would abuse an infant. There were times when I had to walk out of doors when I had my colicky son, who was colicky for a year. I would go outside and cry a bit and go back in to continue soothing him. But I never had the urge to harm him. I felt worried about what could be wrong, frustrated and tired. But no urge to harm him. I guess that's why I wonder if NV had been abused in any capacity, sexually or otherwise. MOO.

 

[SMK777]

I wonder if NV had been abused. Maybe that's another reason for her dissertation choice on traumatized women and health issues. I can't imagine why anyone would abuse an infant. There were times when I had to walk out of doors when I had my colicky son, who was colicky for a year. I would go outside and cry a bit and go back in to continue soothing him. But I never had the urge to harm him. I felt worried about what could be wrong, frustrated and tired. But no urge to harm him. I guess that's why I wonder if NV had been abused in any capacity, sexually or otherwise. MOO.

Additionally, you are speaking about your own precious son. I think the frustration threshold would be lower for an infant that was not your own — especially if there were trauma or abuse in the past. MOO

 

[Susikatze]

I honestly don’t think so. They really sit nestled into this when they are little. If I can find a picture of him sitting in it I’ll post it, I didn’t use it much until he was older bc it was more fun to hold him.

I totally believe she put the bouncer on a kitchen counter or bed or other elevated surface. Many caregivers and parents do it to make handling easier and it is super dangerous because there really babies can fall out and get fatally injured or the seat falls down.

The genital.injury of the other baby is another story.

 

[Susikatze]

Additionally, you are speaking about your own precious son. I think the frustration threshold would be lower for an infant that was not your own — especially if there were trauma or abuse in the past. MOO

I agree. My daughter was crazily colicky, I was completely on the edge and yet the only feelings of harm i had was self harm, not towards the baby. Resolved after several months, luckily.

 

[Curious Me]

Searched out of curiosity. Baby falls do happen. There's even more articles about babies falling off beds. I've also been looking at bounce seats and some aren't as much on the incline and seem dangerously upright. However, the safety belt features look so bulky & obvious, and encouraging to use to strap that baby in. Of course, if the injuries were not from a fall then we don't know if the bounce seat story is even true. All MOO and thoughts.​

Spoiler: Example pic of bouncer seat

October 2017

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/1444/Health-Alerts-Infant-sleep-positioners-bouncer?autologincheck=redirected

Bouncer seat safety

Infant bouncer seats should be placed in stable locations, and safety restraints should be used to protect infants from falling, according to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Bouncer seats support babies in a reclined position and allow them to bounce. Since 2006, 347 incidents related to bouncer seats have been reported, including 12 deaths, concussions and skull fractures. Follow these tips to help prevent injuries:....​

 

[Mauig’ma]

This is the exact seat I bought for my last grand. IIRC the info on the box stated for slightly older babies. I didn’t use it the first couple weeks bc of the way his chin dropped down on his chest, but yes, by 6 weeks old he was big enough. BC of the amount of room in the seat area you could probably leave a young baby in this seat without the belt being buckled unlike those bigger seats that the baby is sitting higher up. I didn’t and wouldn’t recommend it, but some ppl probably do without hurting their babies. The seat has to be manually bounced. It will vibrate if turned on but doesn’t bounce on it’s own.

And that’s why I don’t believe he “fell” out of the bouncer especially at 6 weeks of age. No way no how imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

Searched out of curiosity. Baby falls do happen. There's even more articles about babies falling off beds. I've also been looking at bounce seats and some aren't as much on the incline and seem dangerously upright. However, the safety belt features look so bulky & obvious, and encouraging to use to strap that baby in. Of course, if the injuries were not from a fall then we don't know if the bounce seat story is even true. All MOO and thoughts.​

Spoiler: Example pic of bouncer seat

View attachment 524158

October 2017

https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/1444/Health-Alerts-Infant-sleep-positioners-bouncer?autologincheck=redirected

Bouncer seat safety

Infant bouncer seats should be placed in stable locations, and safety restraints should be used to protect infants from falling, according to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Bouncer seats support babies in a reclined position and allow them to bounce. Since 2006, 347 incidents related to bouncer seats have been reported, including 12 deaths, concussions and skull fractures. Follow these tips to help prevent injuries:....​

But I’d like to know the ages of those injured

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

And that’s why I don’t believe he “fell” out of the bouncer especially at 6 weeks of age. No way no how imo

thank you. I am sitting here wondering why we are even legitimately entertaining that this baby fell from a bouncer seat, was crying hysterically, and then died.

 

[SMK777]

thank you. I am sitting here wondering why we are even legitimately entertaining that this baby fell from a bouncer seat, was crying hysterically, and then died.

It doesn’t seem plausible, really.

 

[abyquinn]

thank you. I am sitting here wondering why we are even legitimately entertaining that this baby fell from a bouncer seat, was crying hysterically, and then died.

If his seat was similar to this one, he could’ve cried and thrashed as hard as his little 6 week old self was capable, as long as he was put in the seat correctly, I don’t think he could’ve flipped himself out. If he had the “belt” on, he would’ve been even more secure. It has a wide base so it’s not going anywhere.

 

[abyquinn]

Yes, it was more than mild scratches. I wouldn't think they'd rush an infant to the hospital if only mild.

The baby's twin, whose name was not immediately available, was examined and found to have scratches, bruises, swelling and redness, according to court documents.

Woman Charged With Killing Pittsburgh Infant, Injuring His Twin

A woman has been charged with homicide following the death of a six-week-old baby in Pittsburgh.

patch.com

I can't even image what happened to cause those sorts of injuries to a 6 week old baby.

Honestly, I was expecting to find out he had been “accidentally” burned while cleaning up a blow-out. How serious would a bruise and swelling (the injury I heard first) have to be for parents to run to the ER? How does one explain swelling, bruises, redness & scratches to an area that is usually covered by a cushy diaper?