PA - Mom jailed for son's rotten teeth

[julianne]

I didn't state that she was poor. I stated he was a foster child & on Medicaid (or their state's version of Medicaid.) The state-funded insurance that is provided to low income or poor people is the same state-funded insurance that is provided to foster children. There may be different individual plan names for different groups, i.e., developmentally delayed, poor, low income, or foster children, but it's all the same & comes out of the same state fund.

I agree that it most likely would've taken months to obtain an appointment due to the Medicaid status and the very low amount of dentists/doctors who are willing to treat Medicaid patients.

 

[Kymistry35]

The Article says she did take him to a dentist and that was when DCF was called..
It is often very difficult to find a dentist who will even treat a child under 5.
I can tell you that in central Florida it was nearly impossible.
My youngest had a cavity and even though I had insurance I Still could not find a dentist who would treat him.
Even the one I eventually found one she would do nothing because he wasn't 5 yet. I had to drive over an hour even to get to her office.
That same dentist had absolutely no suggestion about where to go.
Granted this was very rural central Florida... But still it should not have been a problem.
I was furious that I had been paying for dental insurance for 4+ years only to find it was in effect useless when he needed a dentist. Our plan did not have even one Pediatric dentist available.
The eventual solution was antibiotics and the tooth was very close to falling out.

I do feel bad for this child but I am not so quick to condemn his mother.
Hearing that he was 5 makes me think that the same dental practice goes on in PA as in FL.

I have never heard of any dentist not treating kids under 5! That is crazy. I am in NC and my kids have been seeing the dentist since they were two, it is also the law here that a child has to see a dentist before ever attending school. What about the childs doctor? Shouldn't he have noticed something was wrong and discussed dental care with the mother? I think she needs to be educated regarding dental health.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Yes, dentistry is expensive - but so is plumbing, having your car fixed, and a whole lot of other things.

Any ethical dentist will not want to pull a tooth that can be saved.

Dentistry is medical care. If a practitioner makes the decision that a child needs to be restrained, it is for the safety of the child.

What if the situation was that a young child needs to have sutures for a facial laceration? Do you think the child would not be "papoosed'? Do you think the child would not cry?

Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do in order to accomplish the needed care. Not having the dental care for a child is NOT the solution!

I don't know very many people who just LOVE to get their teeth drilled, but it is part of life. Less so now perhaps than in the "old days", but it must be conveyed to a child that this is a necessary thing.

P.S. My daughter was seen for work at age 2 1/2 - by a pediatric dentist - that was 35 years ago. Call the State Board, they can always find a dentist. And yes, you might have to drive some.

 

[wenchie]

I still can't see where this is any excuse for her letting his teeth get that bad.

He was in pain, and his health and LIFE were in danger. He couldn't even chew!

Anyone who cared even the tiniest bit about that child would have put some effort into getting him some dental care. If he was a foster child, she could have DEMANDED of his caseworker that he get dental help, and get it NOW.

I never even knew before this that there were special Pediatric Dentists. Were those here who couldn't find a dentist for their child only looking for a pediatric dentist, and only looking for a dentist who would take their insurance?

I've been a single mom, and I've been low income and without dental insurance, but there is NO WAY I could go about my business while a child in my care has a sore mouth and a dozen rotting, infected teeth.

 

[Amraann]

I didn't state that she was poor. I stated he was a foster child & on Medicaid (or their state's version of Medicaid.) The state-funded insurance that is provided to low income or poor people is the same state-funded insurance that is provided to foster children. There may be different individual plan names for different groups, i.e., developmentally delayed, poor, low income, or foster children, but it's all the same & comes out of the same state fund.

I agree that it most likely would've taken months to obtain an appointment due to the Medicaid status and the very low amount of dentists/doctors who are willing to treat Medicaid patients.

That is my point. many people were responsible for this child..

Maybe my use of the word "poor" was wrong... but you get my point.
My reply wasn't directed to your wording.

teonspaleprincess if you read this thread you will see that I am not the only one who claims the 5 YO rule.
There are places where dentists do not treat anyone under age 5.

Alwaysshocked it is not about expense in this case..
This is a FOSTER child... So the state would pay and this mother had or should have had someone in DCF to answer to.
Until someone can explain that to me I need to wonder how "guilty" she is.



ETA:
Wenchi there is no account of this child having lost weight.
Furthermore if you read this case was looked at in February when his teeth were pulled... Its umm Sept??
A dentist who either alone or in conjunction with DCF (who should have watched this child) PUBLISHED what they claim is a x ray of his teeth.
yet he wasn't hospitalized and its well over 6 months later...
Who's a$$ is being covered???
Its the foster mom's fault??? this women who may have not even had him for 6 months??

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think I'm jumping to conclusions. If he had just recently come into her care, she wouldn't have been charged for this.

The kid had been in PAIN since the summer of 2005. The is the autumn of 2006.

It's disgraceful. If she was involved in the foster care system, it would have been easier for her than for you or I. All she had to do is call the agency, tell them the problem, and ask them where she should go.

I agree. Foster parents get up to $1,000 per month for a high level child plus respite funds and clothing allowances. This woman could have even paid for a good dentist if necessary and may have had several other foster kids with the same amount of money coming in. It shouldn't take much over 3 months, if that long to get into a dental clinic that accepts Medicaid. If the child was seen by a dentist in December, then a specialist in February who pulled the teeth, there's no way in heck it would have taken months and months to get someone to see a child in pain. The news reports clearly indicate the child had been with this woman for quite awhile since the concerned specialist contacted someone named Racz and said that it took 2-3 years for that level of decay to develop. The news accounts also indicate that once dental care was sought, it didn't take too awfully long to get treatment or at least the first visit. Medicaid kids are supposed to see a dentist every 6 months starting at least at age 3, so this woman seems to have had plenty of support, opportunity and funds. This woman did state that she figured since they were baby teeth that they would just come out. She didn't figure I guess that it takes up to age 10 to lose all the baby teeth. It happens over a period of years. Trapped herself with her own mouth.

 

[wenchie]

I don't see why his not losing weight is supposed to mean anything. A dozen infected teeth is BAD. If it was a festering, infected hand - I think that everyone would agree that this woman is a disgrace to let him walk around that way.

The reason he may have seen the specialist in Dec. but not had the teeth pulled til Feb. could very well be because of the infection.

He may have had to take antibiotics for eight weeks first, to control the infection before the teeth could be pulled.

 

[2sisters]

My goddaughter was in China until she was 9 months old. She is six now and has been having major dental issues (soft teeth, tons of cavaties, root canals...) since she was 4. She doesn't eat lots of sweets, but she was born with bad teeth and probably didn't get proper nutrients in the orphange which could have added to the problem.

It's hard for me to relate. I never had a cavity until after the birth of my second child at 36. And I have always eaten way too many sweets!

I hope this sweet little boy is getting all the care he needs now.

your goddaughter may have had "bottlemouth" when they are left with a bottle in their mouth when they are put to bed or their teeth areed cleaned before bed. In orphanages there are probably too many kids to keep up with.

 

[Amraann]

I don't see why his not losing weight is supposed to mean anything. A dozen infected teeth is BAD. If it was a festering, infected hand - I think that everyone would agree that this woman is a disgrace to let him walk around that way.

The reason he may have seen the specialist in Dec. but not had the teeth pulled til Feb. could very well be because of the infection.

He may have had to take antibiotics for eight weeks first, to control the infection before the teeth could be pulled.

Because the claim is he was in such severe pain for a very long time and could not eat.
He Also maybe did not see the second dentist for 2 months because upon finding one who would treat him there was a long wait for an appt.

 

[bakerprune64]

Because the claim is he was in such severe pain for a very long time and could not eat.
He Also maybe did not see the second dentist for 2 months because upon finding one who would treat him there was a long wait for an appt.

If he were on medications to clear the infection or if she had documentation to show that she had been trying to get him an appointment or made an appointment or something of that nature, they wouldn't have arrested her.

 

[Amraann]

If he were on medications to clear the infection or if she had documentation to show that she had been trying to get him an appointment or made an appointment or something of that nature, they wouldn't have arrested her.

That isn't a given. Especially since there has been no mention of the case worker who should have over seen this case nor how long she had the boy.
The media was clearly fed this story along with the xray from one perspective.
I still think a few things need to be answered.

 

[christine2448]

That isn't a given. Especially since there has been no mention of the case worker who should have over seen this case nor how long she had the boy.
The media was clearly fed this story along with the xray from one perspective.
I still think a few things need to be answered.

As much as I have stood on my point that this is abuse, I too, the more I read, can see Ammy's point that we need more information. My opinion has not changed, I believe this is abuse, based however on what we know right now......but I still want the whole story, I may not feel that way. Will we ever get the whole story?

Thanks for 'stickin' to your guns Ams, I respect that.

 

[wenchie]

Because the claim is he was in such severe pain for a very long time and could not eat.
He Also maybe did not see the second dentist for 2 months because upon finding one who would treat him there was a long wait for an appt.

I just reread the article, and it doesn't say that he DIDN'T lose weight.

And for all the people who are talking about how hard it is to find a pediatric dentist - the mother SAID that she didn't even TRY to take him to a dentist, because she figured they were baby teeth and would fall out.

What I'd like to know is how someone that STUPID and CARELESS and UNCARING ever got to be a foster parent in the first place.

 

[Malini2001]

I used the online search for pediatric dentists and it came back with only 1 within a half hour drive. Of the other 2, one only treated kids over age 2 and the other over age 3. And I live in a big city. I don't think there is a wide selection of pediatric dentists. But I'm not so sure a pediatric dentist is a guarantee that they can handle children anyway.

My niece was treated by a pediatric dentist at age 3 because she always drank un-diluted apple juice and it ate away at her 2 front teeth. There was only 1 pediatric dentist my sister could find to treat her and it was a horrible experience. The dentist was not that good with children and just because they treat children, their fees are a lot higher. After that, she used a regular dentist.

Luckily, our regular dentist is very patient and will take children, but usually not til about age 3. Even at age 3 he just talks to them and looks at their mouth - no instruments. He tells them he needs to count their teeth. I think he said if it was something he HAD to treat at a young age, he would have the child sit on their parent's lap. A friend had a bad experience with a pediatric dentist not allowing her in the room with her children so she found a regular dentist with patience.

I think it is much more difficult finding a decent pediatric dentist than it is to find a pediatrician. I'm not willing to say this woman is totally at fault either. It is entirely possible that Feb was the earliest appt she could get after the Dec. appt.

Something isn't right about this whole story. If the child was a foster child, a case worker should have been aware of the problem before the 2-3 yrs it took for his teeth to get that bad. Wouldn't a pediatrician have reported it if the teeth were that bad? We must be missing some of the facts.

 

[Anngelique]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9847350/detail.html

So where does it say she tried to take her child to a dentist? It says he'd NEVER been to a dentist and she just figured the teeth would fall out since they were baby teeth. The first time at the dentist was when he had to pull all the teeth and the dentist turned them in for for neglect.

I don't see one place in this article about her trying to find a dentist or having been turned away. Just that she knew he was in pain and figured they'd fall out by themselves.

 

[Amraann]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9847350/detail.html

So where does it say she tried to take her child to a dentist? It says he'd NEVER been to a dentist and she just figured the teeth would fall out since they were baby teeth. The first time at the dentist was when he had to pull all the teeth and the dentist turned them in for for neglect.

I don't see one place in this article about her trying to find a dentist or having been turned away. Just that she knew he was in pain and figured they'd fall out by themselves.

One of the articles stated that he had seen a dentist in December 05.
It implied that the Dentist was either unwilling or uncapable of fixing his teeth and recommended follow up with a specialist... Whom he did see in February.

 

[wenchie]

One of the articles stated that he had seen a dentist in December 05.
It implied that the Dentist was either unwilling or uncapable of fixing his teeth and recommended follow up with a specialist... Whom he did see in February.

The foster mother said that she was aware that he was in pain since the summer before, but she didn't bother taking him to the dentist til last December. It sounds (to me) that the dentist's problem was not the boy's age, but the advanced condition of his teeth.

The article doesn't tell us what finally prompted her to take him to the dentist, but from her comments, it doesn't sound like she made the decision on her own. Perhaps the school asked her to take him, as, with that amount of decay and the pain he was in, they probably observed the neglect.

 

[Anngelique]

One of the articles stated that he had seen a dentist in December 05.
It implied that the Dentist was either unwilling or uncapable of fixing his teeth and recommended follow up with a specialist... Whom he did see in February.

I have done a lot of research and every article I found says he went with years of neglect of not seeing a dentist. It never mentions seeing a dentist ever. I have googled it because part of me would like to give her the benefit of the doubt and try to understand where you're coming from in backing her up. But I can't find anything except her quoting that she thought the teeth would fall out on their own and that she knew he's been in pain since the summer of 2005. That's the only thing I've seen that mentions 2005 is how long he's been in pain. So if you can find the link for the article you mention I'd love to read it. :blowkiss:

 

[angelmom]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9847350/detail.html

So where does it say she tried to take her child to a dentist? It says he'd NEVER been to a dentist and she just figured the teeth would fall out since they were baby teeth. The first time at the dentist was when he had to pull all the teeth and the dentist turned them in for for neglect.

I don't see one place in this article about her trying to find a dentist or having been turned away. Just that she knew he was in pain and figured they'd fall out by themselves.

link from page 2...

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/bet...,923530.story?coll=all-newslocalbethlehem-hed

In February, Racz contacted Dr. Talel Noumeh, who said the boy was a patient of his. Noumeh, a dentist who has offices in Allentown and Phillipsburg, told investigators that on Dec. 10, the boy had a total of 11 severe cavities in his front and back teeth. Noumeh said he recommended the boy see a specialist for follow-up treatment.

It's not clear in the affidavit what Noumeh did for the boy...

On Feb. 17, the boy was treated by Dr. Nicholas Prusack of Allen Oral Surgery Associates in Salisbury, police said. Prusack said he removed 12 of the boy's teeth, including all of his molars.

 

[wenchie]

link from page 2...

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/bet...,923530.story?coll=all-newslocalbethlehem-hed

In February, Racz contacted Dr. Talel Noumeh, who said the boy was a patient of his. Noumeh, a dentist who has offices in Allentown and Phillipsburg, told investigators that on Dec. 10, the boy had a total of 11 severe cavities in his front and back teeth. Noumeh said he recommended the boy see a specialist for follow-up treatment.

It's not clear in the affidavit what Noumeh did for the boy...

On Feb. 17, the boy was treated by Dr. Nicholas Prusack of Allen Oral Surgery Associates in Salisbury, police said. Prusack said he removed 12 of the boy's teeth, including all of his molars.

I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant was that the Dec. appointment appears to be his first dentist's appointment ever.