Found Deceased PA - Paul Kochu, 22, Allegheny County, 17 Dec 2014 - #2

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IMHO, we have gotten all the answers that we are ever going to get on what happened to Paul. I believe that LE has felt reasonably confident for some time now that they know how he wound up in the river and how he died. I share in that sentiment. I hope and pray that the family will someday find some semblance of peace and understanding with what happened to him. So incredibly sad for all involved.
 
AMWord said:
Would toxicology also be back with the autopsy? Would they have been able to see if maybe he was slipped a drug or anything? I don't know. I just feel bad.
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I feel bad too. They will never have true closure. He drowned, no signs of foul play, no leads to what happen in his last moments, no real answer on how he ended up in the river. I do however believe that implying that it was not an accident and not suicide is not a representation of the known facts.

oops I copied the wrong post.
 
cluciano63 said:
Jmo...IF Paul was unhappy or depressed and did go into the water on purpose...maybe he felt he could not show his family how unhappy he was feeling. Jmo but it sounds possible that he may not have felt he could tell them. I am only saying this due to their seeming inability to believe anything but foul play. Anyway...
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I agree, and this really saddens me.
 
This may have already been discussed -
How would a medical examine know if he drowned on purpose or accident? Besides if there were signs of a struggle what kind of proof would there be? The facebook page state "the autopsy did not show a suicide either nor accidental drowning" But would it? I don't know enough about an autopsy to know what kind of of information and science goes behind it or what gets listed. I am just wondering if they don't know how he got in the water can they say with fact - accident or suicide?
 
OnTheBreeze said:
This may have already been discussed -
How would a medical examine know if he drowned on purpose or accident? Besides if there were signs of a struggle what kind of proof would there be? The facebook page state "the autopsy did not show a suicide either nor accidental drowning" But would it? I don't know enough about an autopsy to know what kind of of information and science goes behind it or what gets listed. I am just wondering if they don't know how he got in the water can they say with fact - accident or suicide?
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Maybe it is semantics and how they would decipher the words.
Maybe the autopsy can't determine suicide and can't determine accidental drowning.
Maybe the autopsy can't determine drowning on purpose, either.
It is what they might want to believe, even if that might not really be what happened.
IMOO.
 
Wed., July 16th: Penn-Live© :

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/07/pa_nurse_last_seeing_leaving_b.html#incart_river :

Cause Of Death: Fresh Water Drowning

Manner Of Death: UNdetermined

Tue., July 15th: WTAE-TV :

http://www.wtae.com/news/autopsy-south-side-nurse-paul-kochu-drowned/34190594

Tue., July 15th: WPXI-TV :

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/autopsy-confirms-paul-kochus-death-was-result-drow/nmzW2/

Tue., July 15th: Trib Total Media© :

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/8751189-74/death-police-toler#axzz3g1GbNXLJ


Our Condolences to Paul's Loved Ones.
 
You may remember that in December 2014, the body of Harriet Hickman Smith was found floating in the Ohio river. It was found while they were out searching for Paul.

Her body was found on a Monday and on Wednesday of the same week, the medical examiner ruled the death a suicide by drowning.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/body-woman-found-ohio-river/njcS6/

There must have been something about her death that made it an obvious suicide. Maybe Paul being found so far from where he lived played into the medical examiner's decision to call the drowning 'undetermined' or maybe different medical examiners handle cases differently.

I can't remember the Shane Montgomery ruling, but I think it was ruled accidental drowning. If so, how did they determine that?
 
OnTheBreeze said:
This may have already been discussed -
How would a medical examine know if he drowned on purpose or accident? Besides if there were signs of a struggle what kind of proof would there be? The facebook page state "the autopsy did not show a suicide either nor accidental drowning" But would it? I don't know enough about an autopsy to know what kind of of information and science goes behind it or what gets listed. I am just wondering if they don't know how he got in the water can they say with fact - accident or suicide?
Click to expand...

I don't think the medical examiner can tyically tell whether it was accidental or suicide when there is a drowning, without some other evidence such as an eye witness or suicide note that may give insight as to the victims mindset at the time. In this case, They just ruled that it was drowning.

So, how can people drown? As far as I can tell, it comes down to 3 ways.
1) homicide-the autopsy has stated that that they did not find anything suspicious about Paul's death. So that leaves 2 other options.
2) accident
3) suicide

The autopsy does not specify which of these 2 led to Paul's death, but logically, it's one or the other. In order to determine which of these 2 is more likely, you need to look at the circumstances. If Paul was out fishing in the middle of the day and was found in the water with a slip mark on the shore and blood on a rock, one could reasonably conclude an accident had occurred. However, in this case, we have a 22 year old who was drinking, who was apparently in some type of disagreement, who was reportedly "emotional", who clearly had a cut on his hand and/or wrist as seen on video, in the middle of the night, who winds up in the river as a drowning victim, one could reasonably conclude that perhaps it was not accidental.

In regards to the Facebook posts, they appear to be intentionally vague with the intent of making it look to the viewers that the autopsy ruled it a homicide, without actually saying it or without actually lying. By looking at the responses, it appears that was exactly the conclusion that many came to.

So, what can be made of the posts? Was the family lying when they said the autopsy did not show suicide either nor accidental drowning? Technically, no it wasn't a lie as the report did not specify either suicide or accidental drowning. However, it is logically concluded that it was one or another when it mentions that they found nothing suspicious.

So what was their motivation on how they handled the posting? I believe it is rooted in their strong belief that the roommates were involved. Perhaps they were trying to make the roommates sweat thinking they are still under suspicion? Perhaps they didn't want to admit to their family and friends that the report did not support their theory? Perhaps they would find it embarrassing for people to think Paul harmed himself and they were trying to protect his character. I really don't know.

So were they wrong in how they portrayed the results? It is not my place to say. My take is that these are very good people who have been put in a horrible situation. I have always avoided being critical of, or judging, family members (assuming they are not actually involved in the demise of the victims.) I try to recognize a couple of things. First, it is not my place to judge. Second, the family is in extreme pain and under tremendous stress. Third, I do not want to do anything to add to their pain. I will not start now by judging this family.

The determining factor in whether they are handling this correctly comes down to whether or not they are right in suspecting the roommates. LE obviously does not suspect the roommates of directly causing Paul's death. (nor do I) However, sometimes LE is wrong. If they are right, then their persistence in the pursuit of justice will be vindicated. However, if they are wrong, and they have publically cast suspicion on innocent people who are suffering the loss of their friend, then another injustice has been created.
 
EXCELLENT post Ski1987!!! Thank you for putting that so well!
 
Great Post Ski1987!

I feel for this family. I think this is something they will not be able to move on from for a long time, if ever. It is not just about the loss of their loved one -they believe that he did not end up in that water by his own doing and as long as that belief remains they can not rest. They will always be "seeking justice". As long as there is no definitive proof that he went in there on his own accord, whether on purpose or on accident, they will not be able to fully move on. I don't blame them though, if my loved one passed under curious circumstances I would probably do/feel the same. I hope that they can find some sort of peace.

I also feel for the roommates, if they are truly innocent, they will always have to live with the fact that his family feels they were involved. No matter what they do in life in the back of their mind will always be the idea that someone somewhere believes they did something awful. That has to be pretty hard to deal with as well.
 
Family of South Coventry native Paul Kochu seek answers surrounding his death - September

As the anniversary of his disappearance approaches, the Kochu family says they are still left with many unanswered questions.

“The information that we have gotten, we can’t agree with,” said Jack. “We feel it’s inaccurate and we’re taking it on our backs to find out how to get to the bottom of this. We just don’t understand it.”

The family has decided to take matters into their own hands by starting a page to pay for the hiring of a local forensic pathologist to review the results of the autopsy. Money raised will also go to paying for the use of a lab to run tests on some of Paul’s clothing that the family had returned to them.

“It has been 20 months since we last spoke to or spent time with Paul,” the page reads. “Your contribution will not bring him back to this world. It may, however, help bring into focus the events preceding his disappearance and untimely death. The questions left unanswered are unbearable. We hope that with your help we will be able to understand what happened to Paul.”
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