Found Deceased PA - Paul Kochu, 22, Allegheny County, 17 Dec 2014 - #2

[Miss Muffet]

What motive would the roommates have?

Maybe it was an accident. Maybe it was self defense. Maybe it was deliberate. Who knows?

The father said they had a disagreement. The aunt said the family hoped he was staying at a friend's house "while tempers cooled." People get hurt in disagreements. We know PK was injured. His roommates say it happened one way, but we have no proof that's the way it happened.

Is it a coincidence when a person disappears shortly after walking past a surveillance camera appearing to be injured and this all happened shortly after having a disagreement?

 

[Tricia]

Dear Everyone,

Please remember we do not allow you to attack other posters personally.

Your words have power.

Please be respectful.

Tricia

 

[volcarm]

Maybe it was an accident. Maybe it was self defense. Maybe it was deliberate. Who knows?

The father said they had a disagreement. The aunt said the family hoped he was staying at a friend's house "while tempers cooled." People get hurt in disagreements. We know PK was injured. His roommates say it happened one way, but we have no proof that's the way it happened.

Is it a coincidence when a person disappears shortly after walking past a surveillance camera appearing to be injured and this all happened shortly after having a disagreement?

So sad. Praying for Paul and his family

 

[MINNESOTA-MOM]

What motive would the roommates have?

How would we know? So little information and we've all allowed the roommates' statements to "color" our views of Paul's state of mind. The ONLY indication we have that Paul was distressed are from the people who last saw him. Other than that, I've saw no indication that anything was going wrong in his life. We'd be pretty dumb to base our assumptions solely on those who saw him last. People who commitvsuicide generally have had a lifetime (or at least SOME history) of mental illness... I haven't saw anything indicating Paul was depressed.

Have the roommates had lie detector tests? I think it was Shane's case where they gave lie detector tests to the bar employees within 48 hours of disappearance.

 

[Treelights]

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/


"Updated: 8:57 a.m. Sunday, Dec. 21, 2014 | Posted: 3:40 p.m. Thursday, Dec. 18, 2014"

" “Paul declined because he was in disagreement in something that had happened earlier in the night. So he stayed here. They went to get something to eat -- we don't know where. But when they came home, Paul was gone,” said Jack Kochu. "


Paul declined because he was in a disagreement, but it doesn't say he was in disagreement with the roommates.
I understand fair reasoning and deduction would make it seem like, yes, he was in disagreement with the roommates,
but who is to say, because it is not written.
For all we know, they could have met up with someone at the bar that befriended Paul and the roommates and Paul was upset
and left early from the bar, then perhaps when the roommates went to get food at mcDonalds, they were to meet that same person and Paul declined because of an earlier disagreement with that person they met up with. We simply don't know. We can reason Who, but we don't know.

Also, Paul's dad didn't know where they were going to get food.
Where did Paul's dad get the information that there was a disagreement?
Did Paul tell his family that there was a disagreement and that's why he didn't go with the roommates to get food?
Would the roommates tell Paul's dad there was a disagreement?
Did Paul's dad get that information in the Police Report?

If Paul's dad got the information from the Police Report, then someone was forthcoming in the report about a disagreement and Paul not wanting to get food with the roommates.

Did Paul call or text someone about the disagreement and not wanting to go get food with the roommates?
Where did that knowledge come from??

There is no Person of Interest released in MainStream Media.
I haven't read anywhere that the police mentioned that there is a person of interest.
If there is a person of interest or suspect, I have not read it. Maybe there is, and the police choose not to say.

There isn't much information released about Paul's case.

Perhaps halaiphone, Paul's Aunt who is a Verified Insider Family Member, could answer some of these questions.

IMOO.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Last night, I started reading every article chronologically. I'm compiling a synopsis of everything. I'm making reference of the sources of information contained in the articles. I'll share it all when I'm done.

In the meantime, I noticed something about the time the roommates left the apartment:


December 18th updated December 21st:

Pittsburgh Bureau of Police Missing Person's Unit said PK was last seen at apartment at 1:30 AM.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/


December 21st:

PK's father saying they left to get something to eat shortly after midnight.

10:10 PM http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/7425621-74/kochu-jack-paul#axzz3U3jrRWpR


December 23rd:

The first reference of McDonalds is made on December 23rd. It's referred to as a "local McDonalds."

7:09 AM http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-Missing-Pottstown-Pittsburgh--286591111.html

The only McDonalds open that late that can be remotely considered local is the one in Dormont. It's drive through is open 24 hours. The interior closes as midnight. It's only 10 minutes away.


December 29th:

Police release surveillance video of PK

3:09 PM http://www.wtae.com/news/surveillance-video-believed-to-show-missing-south-side-man/30443158


Updated January 22nd/No date for original

Ben says they left at 2:00 AM. He is quoted and referenced in this article as the source.

3:28 PM http://www.wtae.com/news/pittsburgh-police-looking-for-missing-south-side-man/30301444


All of the "last seen at apartment" times reported are shortly after Midnight, 1:00, 1:30, 2:00.

Police state 1:30 the very first day on December 18th. The roommate says they left for food at 2:00 AM in January 21st article. Notice the times changed after the video was released on December 29th. In fairness, it's possible the January 22nd article was originally pushed on December 19th because the link is the same as the one in the second page of this thread stating Ben on 4th day but that link leads to this January 22nd article.

Regardless, the police continue to say PK's roommates last saw him at the apartment at 1:30 (and some say 1:00). What would police continue to base 1:00/1:30 on after roommates stated 2:00? The receipts?

The Dormont McDonalds is only 10 minutes away. Even if they left at 2:00, they could have returned before 2:47, IMO. If they left significantly earlier at 1:00/1:30, they would have had plenty of time to get back to the apartment by 2:47 even if they went to a McDonalds on the other side of the county because the 24 hour ones are drive through only at that time of night.

This post isn't fact, but merely my pondering and head scratching as I try to make sense of the different times they left with a tad of opinion on drive times tossed in.

 

[Treelights]

In this link to the facebook for missing Paul, (from Dec. 22) there is a flyer that states that there was phone contact approx. 1:49am on Tues. Dec. 16th at his home.

https://www.facebook.com/findpaulko...0.1426090539./572981432836518/?type=3&theater

I am wondering then if the roommates were gone by then, and Paul called or texted someone about the disagreement and/or getting food, etc.

IMOO.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Paul declined because he was in a disagreement, but it doesn't say he was in disagreement with the roommates.
I understand fair reasoning and deduction would make it seem like, yes, he was in disagreement with the roommates,
but who is to say, because it is not written.
For all we know, they could have met up with someone at the bar that befriended Paul and the roommates and Paul was upset
and left early from the bar, then perhaps when the roommates went to get food at mcDonalds, they were to meet that same person and Paul declined because of an earlier disagreement with that person they met up with. We simply don't know. We can reason Who, but we don't know.

There are many references that the roommates left to get food for the three of them. That indicates there were no other people present at the apartment, and no other people returning to the apartment when the roommates brought PK's food back. Since drive throughs are all that's open at McDonald's that late at night, there's no logical reason to believe they were meeting someone else at McDonalds. They can't sit inside to eat. They wouldn't have gone somewhere else before coming home since they were getting food for PK too. The Aunt says that the family hoped that PK had stayed at a friend's house while "tempers cooled." Why would he need to stay away from his apartment for tempers to cool? Tempers plural indicates more than one person had a temper, not just PK.

Also, Paul's dad didn't know where they were going to get food.
Where did Paul's dad get the information that there was a disagreement?
Did Paul tell his family that there was a disagreement and that's why he didn't go with the roommates to get food?
Would the roommates tell Paul's dad there was a disagreement?
Did Paul's dad get that information in the Police Report?

If Paul's dad got the information from the Police Report, then someone was forthcoming in the report about a disagreement and Paul not wanting to get food with the roommates.

Did Paul call or text someone about the disagreement and not wanting to go get food with the roommates?
Where did that knowledge come from??

All good questions. But not having answers to those questions doesn't forbid us from theorizing since a rumor of a disagreement was reported in the media.

There is no Person of Interest released in MainStream Media.
I haven't read anywhere that the police mentioned that there is a person of interest.
If there is a person of interest or suspect, I have not read it. Maybe there is, and the police choose not to say.

So? What's POI have to do with it? An officially announced POI isn't the only criteria for us to theorize. Once something is reported by the media, we're allowed to speculate on it. And we're speculating on the disagreement---who he had the disagreement with, etc..

Perhaps halaiphone, Paul's Aunt who is a Verified Insider Family Member, could answer some of these questions.

That would be awesome. Is she regularly contributing? It seems she came to WS to explain there was a lapse of time from PK's disappearance to when the Kochus called police and come to Pittsburgh to look for PK. In absence of any further details, etc.., I'll continue to speculate based on what we have available to us.

In the Tammy Meyer's thread, we have been permitted to speculate on the rumore that the victim bought drugs from the suspect, and that speculation extends to the Meyers family members since they were involved in a gun battle with the suspect. Prior to the rumor being officially reported in the media, we were not permitted to speculate about that. . Once the rumor was reported by the media, we were allowed to speculate but we had to reference the rumor. And we've speculated all sorts of crazy scenarios involving drugs as a result. Regardless, I don't think a statement is considered a rumor by WS when it comes directly from the family members of the victims. Even if it is considered a rumor by WS, it being mentioned in the media allows for speculation.

 

[Treelights]

From what I understand, we don't have to wait until the police name someone a PoI if information is reported in the media. It has been reported in the media that the father said they had a disagreement. The aunt posted in the first thread on Websleuths that the family hoped he had stayed at a friend's house until "tempers cooled down." Once in the media, we can speculate but we can't state it as fact. If we can't speculate yet, I see no reason discussing much of anything until we can because everything is pointing in that direction IMO.

It has Not been reported in the media that Paul's dad said that "they" had a disagreement, to my knowledge.

What has been reported in the media is:

" “Paul declined because he was in disagreement in something that had happened earlier in the night. "

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

Can you provide a link that says Paul's dad said Paul had a disagreement with the roommates?

ALSO:

If Paul walked to a friend's house until tempers cooled down, then the friend lives close by??

Was Paul supposed to walk to meet this friend?? And then the friend would drive and pick Paul up??

Is that why Paul isn't seen on other videos?? Was Paul picked up in a vehicle other than his own?

Now That is speculation on my part...
My Opinion Only.

 

[Miss Muffet]

In this link to the facebook for missing Paul, (from Dec. 22) there is a flyer that states that there was phone contact approx. 1:49am on Tues. Dec. 16th at his home.

https://www.facebook.com/findpaulko...0.1426090539./572981432836518/?type=3&theater

I plan to pull the all of the information from the facebook page and flyers into the chronological information list I'm halfway done compiling. What I posted is a drop in the bucket compared to what I have compiled. I'll post the entire thing soon.

I am wondering then if the roommates were gone by then, and Paul called or texted someone about the disagreement and/or getting food, etc.

That's a good question. I think there's a way we can shed some light on it. There are references to phone contact PK had and didn't have. In one of the first flyers, a time is provided for the last time PK had phone contact. But recall it has also been reported that PK's family had not heard from him that day/night. Also, PK's father says police looked through his phone information and didn't find anything helpful. I'll try to track all the references to telephone contact with links so we can see it points to anything that makes sense.

I'm guessing the roommates told the parents or police they had a disagreement with PK. Maybe they had to acknowledge a disagreement because it happened at the bar and there were witnesses. IMO the disagreement started at the bar since it happened earlier in the night. If it happened before going to the bar, PK wouldn't have gone with them to the bar (since it was bad enough or family members to think PK might have avoided the apartment until tempers cooled). If it happened after his leaving the bar, that would mean it happened between the roommates returning to help him with the bleeding and before they left for food. If PK had a disagreement at the bar with someone else, and the roommates remained at the bar with that person, that indicates to me that the roommates sided with the other person; otherwise, they would have left with PK. All scenarios are brainstorming IMO, MOO, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Treelights]

I plan to pull the all of the information from the facebook page and flyers into the chronological information list I'm halfway done compiling. What I posted is a drop in the bucket compared to what I have compiled. I'll post the entire thing soon.


That's a good question. I think there's a way we can shed some light on it. There are references to phone contact PK had and didn't have. In one of the first flyers, a time is provided for the last time PK had phone contact. But recall it has also been reported that PK's family had not heard from him that day/night. Also, PK's father says police looked through his phone information and didn't find anything helpful. I'll try to track all the references to telephone contact with links so we can see it points to anything that makes sense.

I'm guessing the roommates told the parents or police they had a disagreement with PK. Maybe they had to acknowledge a disagreement because it happened at the bar and there were witnesses. IMO the disagreement started at the bar since it happened earlier in the night. If it happened before going to the bar, PK wouldn't have gone with them to the bar (since it was bad enough or family members to think PK might have avoided the apartment until tempers cooled). If it happened after his leaving the bar, that would mean it happened between the roommates returning to help him with the bleeding and before they left for food. If PK had a disagreement at the bar with someone else, and the roommates remained at the bar with that person, that indicates to me that the roommates sided with the other person; otherwise, they would have left with PK. All scenarios are brainstorming IMO, MOO, etc. etc. etc.

Thing is Paul DID have contact with his family that night.

" Paul Kochu’s mother told Channel 11's Jennifer Tomazic that she spoke with him Monday night.

“We were talking about Christmas presents and I told him I got a tree. He was very excited to be coming home,” Ellen Kochu said. "

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

Do you mean the following day? Like on Tuesday? Is that the day you meant?
I misunderstood, if that is the case.

IMOO.

 

[carbuff]

I think asking a bunch of twentysomething guys who had apparently been out drinking for the time when something happened is probably not going to net you anything more precise than that it was after midnight. The other times are probably extrapolated--along the lines of well, it took us a few minutes to drive over, and there was a line so we had to wait and we were probably there half an hour... Et cetera. Made up example.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Thing is Paul DID have contact with his family that night.

" Paul Kochu’s mother told Channel 11's Jennifer Tomazic that she spoke with him Monday night.

“We were talking about Christmas presents and I told him I got a tree. He was very excited to be coming home,” Ellen Kochu said. "

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/police-missing-22-year-old-last-seen-south-side/njWYJ/

Do you mean the following day? Like on Tuesday? Is that the day you meant?
I misunderstood, if that is the case.

IMOO.

I meant after the disagreement. She may have talked to him before he went out for the evening, or before the disagreement at least. I don't want to speculate just yet via one reference from an article. I want to collect all references to possible phone contact PK had and look at all of it together at the same time before I form an opinion on this particular point. I recall reading they had not heard from him. I think there's a problem with pulling one reference of something stated differently in other references without analyzing all of the references together to see which or how they make sense. That's why I said I would compile together all of the information about phone contact.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I think asking a bunch of twentysomething guys who had apparently been out drinking for the time when something happened is probably not going to net you anything more precise than that it was after midnight. The other times are probably extrapolated--along the lines of well, it took us a few minutes to drive over, and there was a line so we had to wait and we were probably there half an hour... Et cetera. Made up example.

It appears LE thinks 1:30 is the most accurate time even though 2:00 came right out of the horse's mouth.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Onto something else.

I have been watching many YouTube videos of people walking drunk to try to make my own determination if PK is injured or just drunk in the surveillance video.

In almost every video of people walking drunk, both of their arms are moving around freely even if they are stumbling similar to PK. The few who have their arms not moving, aren't holding one to the side like PK.

It really looks like PK's left shoulder is injured.

I'm also wondering about a punctured lung. People with collapsed lungs hold the arm that's on the side of the collapsed lung very tightly to their side. They also usually hold their opposing hand across and rest it onto the lung where it hurts. But PK's other hand is injured, and that could explain why he's only doing one thing that indicates a collapsed lung.

 

[bessie]

Speculation must be backed up with MSM links, and references must be accurate.

 

[OnTheBreeze]

After mulling the detective's post, I'm trying to figure out how'd he get in the water but I'm also trying figure out what else could have happened to him.

When is the st Pat's parade? I'm not wishing to ruin someone's day, but the area will be packed. Maybe someone will find him? Has there been a landfill search? What if he got roughed up and thrown in a dumpster. To me, that's too much like a movie.

It is on Saturday at 10 am. The Parade doesn't go through South Side but there will be plenty of people out down there. All day long. All over the place. A lot of them will be drunk but, hopefully people can keep their eyes open.

 

[Ghostwheel]

What motive would the roommates have?

I've always wondered if there wasn't an actual fight someplace. Maybe with a roommate or with someone else and the roommates didn't know about it or want it known for some reason. Saying that Paul had cut himself would explain blood in the house (that could have been caused by a fight of some sort). Just one theory of many.

 

[heartgoesout]

Anxiously awaiting the timeline you're working on Muffet.

 

[heartgoesout]

I've always wondered if there wasn't an actual fight someplace. Maybe with a roommate or with someone else and the roommates didn't know about it or want it known for some reason. Saying that Paul had cut himself would explain blood in the house (that could have been caused by a fight of some sort). Just one theory of many.

I've speculated before that the hand wound could be a defensive wound...