Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli #4

[Friday Fan]

yes, according to stats, philly had about 2 million people and approximately 33% were children between 0-17 or 340k, so about 20k kids per each year of age. Does sound tedious, but perhaps it's doable if they compared it to Kindergarteners in 1957.

They were not just looking in Philly, they were looking at the Metro area which currently has a population of over 6 million.
They were also looking at children from Hungary and New York City.
My dad was military, but I was born when my dad was in college, (there wasn't even a military base nearby, the military sent him to college) by the time I was 4, I was living 10,000 miles away in Japan!

 

[spacedcurls]

yes, according to stats, philly had about 2 million people and approximately 33% were children between 0-17 or 340k, so about 20k kids per each year of age. Does sound tedious, but perhaps it's doable if they compared it to Kindergarteners in 1957.

Kindergarten wasn’t wide spread at that time, and it’s likely he didn’t go to Kindergarten -- if he did, surely a teacher would have noticed he was missing. I believe vaccines were beginning to be required back then for school as well, and the fact that he didn’t have any vaccine scars is another reason why it’s likely he wasn’t in school. He was also young - just a month over 4 years old, so probably not even Kindergarten age yet (depending on when the age was then).

 

[Red Pill]

Photos I have never seen of a similar bassinette and blanket found at the foster home that was investigated






Images Source:
https://truecrimesocietyblog.com/2021/07/26/who-is-the-boy-in-the-box/

 

[OddOneOut]

While we wait for more information to hopefully be released, has anyone heard of this one:Philly’s Girl in the Box remains an overlooked mystery

 

[spacedcurls]

While we wait for more information to hopefully be released, has anyone heard of this one:Philly’s Girl in the Box remains an overlooked mystery

There is a thread for her here: PA - PA - Philadelphia, BlkFem 4-6, UP16611, Amputated Finger, Wht apron, in milk crate, May'62

Certainly not as active as this one though — unfortunately there isn’t likely to be much new info on her unless someone comes out or her body is found (again) to have DNA taken.

 

[Friday Fan]

Kindergarten wasn’t wide spread at that time, and it’s likely he didn’t go to Kindergarten -- if he did, surely a teacher would have noticed he was missing. I believe vaccines were beginning to be required back then for school as well, and the fact that he didn’t have any vaccine scars is another reason why it’s likely he wasn’t in school. He was also young - just a month over 4 years old, so probably not even Kindergarten age yet (depending on when the age was then).

He would have been too young

He would have been eligible in 1958.

 

[Astrach99]

But it was a cardboard box sitting outdoors in PA in winter. IMO it wasn't in the condition it would have been in if it had been left outside for very long. I think Occam's Razor applies here - he was most likely transported in the box. It's unlikely someone who is dumping the body of a child finds a random box at the dump site and decides to take the time to put the child in the box when they're out there in the open.

The Boy in the Box book (I just started it, highly recommended) says that a nun from the girls' school came over to see what was going on when the police found JAZ. So clearly the area was visible to the school. It was also an area frequented by hunters and fur trappers. IMO it would have been much less of a risk to dump what appears to be an empty box than take a body wrapped in a blanket out there and just rely on there not being anyone there to witness it.

I agree that it seems the most likely explanation that the bassinet box was brought to the scene with Joseph, but just because it seems the most likely, doesn't means it's necessarily true. There are other explanations.

I wonder if there's a way of finding out what the weather was in Fox Chase at the time, especially as I remember hearing about a witness who claimed they saw the box at the site before Joseph was dumped there, but I'm struggling to find a source for it and don't have the time to search, especially as there's a plethora of new articles about the case since he's been identified.

 

[Friday Fan]

I agree that it seems the most likely explanation that the bassinet was brought to the scene with Joseph, but just because it seems the most likely, doesn't means it's necessarily true. There are other explanations.

I wonder if there's a way of finding out what the weather was in Fox Chase at the time, especially as I remember hearing about a witness who claimed they saw the box at the site before Joseph was dumped there, but I'm struggling to find a source for it and don't have the time to search, especially as there's a plethora of new articles about the case since he's been identified.

It was "M" who said they found the box there and put him in the box.

Based on the condition of the box, it was likely brought with Joseph to the site. (The box was in good condition)

The box was dry inside and slightly damp on the outside.

I believe other witnesses saw him in the box days previously, but didn't tell the police. Case Summary (It was here, at the junction of two well-worn footpaths, that the victim's body was twice discovered during the final week of February 1957.Yeah weird. Right?) Weather was dry after his body was first spotted. He was first spotted on Feb 23rd and police were called on Feb 26th. Apparently, there was light rain on Feb 23rd and it was dry until police were called.

I kinda think the spotting of the woman and her son could have been a "red herring". If it's a dump site, people will be out doing that kinda stuff and maybe the person who saw the woman had the dates wrong. Also the date the woman was spotted was after the first witness saw the BITB.
JP - an 18-year-old youth who told police that he had discovered the body of the murdered boy in Fox Chase on the weekend of February 22-23, 1957, but was afraid to tell anyone about it. JPs home was located on Pine road near Susquehanna road, a short distance from the spot where police found the boy's body. JP told detectives that on either Saturday, February 23, or Sunday, February 24, he sighted the box, with the body, while returning home from a basketball game. Not sure of the day but said it was drizzling at the time (the Weather Bureau reported a light rain about 1 P.M. on Saturday.) PJ was so horrified and frightened by what he had seen that he ran home and said nothing about it to his parents. Claimed ownership of a number of muskrat traps in the vicinity.


JB a 26-year-old student at LaSalle College. He called police shortly after 10:00 a.m. on the morning of February 26, 1957, and informed them that he had discovered the body of a small child the previous day.he was driving along Susquehanna road west of Verree road on Monday afternoon at around 3:15 p.m., when he saw a rabbit jump into the underbrush. He said that he stopped to chase it. While out of the car, saw some muskrat traps and then came upon a large cardboard box. He looked inside, and saw what he thought could possibly be a doll, or the body of a small child. decided not to report the incident. (Police subsequently learned that he was in the habit of visiting Susquehanna Road to spy on the young women at the Good Shepherd School for Wayward Girls. This may explain his initial reluctance to reveal the discovery to authorities.) However, by the next morning, had second thoughts about keeping silent, especially after hearing a radio news report about a missing New Jersey child. confided in two LaSalle College faculty priests, who advised him to notify authorities immediately. was questioned extensively by detectives at Philadelphia police department headquarters. He also voluntarily submitted to a lie detector test, the results of which cleared him of any suspicion.

​

 

[CCJD]

There is a thread for her here: PA - PA - Philadelphia, BlkFem 4-6, UP16611, Amputated Finger, Wht apron, in milk crate, May'62

Certainly not as active as this one though — unfortunately there isn’t likely to be much new info on her unless someone comes out or her body is found (again) to have DNA taken.

BBM
Her body wasn't found the first time.

 

[RoseTree]

While we wait for more information to hopefully be released, has anyone heard of this one:Philly’s Girl in the Box remains an overlooked mystery

This case definitely deserves time and attention.

 

[steff13]

I agree that it seems the most likely explanation that the bassinet box was brought to the scene with Joseph, but just because it seems the most likely, doesn't means it's necessarily true. There are other explanations.

I wonder if there's a way of finding out what the weather was in Fox Chase at the time, especially as I remember hearing about a witness who claimed they saw the box at the site before Joseph was dumped there, but I'm struggling to find a source for it and don't have the time to search, especially as there's a plethora of new articles about the case since he's been identified.

Weather info for Philly in 1957 here Philadelphia Weather in 1957

 

[RoseTree]

BBM
Her body wasn't found the first time.

I’m really hoping that more efforts are made to locate her remains and provide closure to her family, and to the case and give her her name back.

 

[txsleuth70]

I agree that it seems the most likely explanation that the bassinet box was brought to the scene with Joseph, but just because it seems the most likely, doesn't means it's necessarily true. There are other explanations.

I wonder if there's a way of finding out what the weather was in Fox Chase at the time, especially as I remember hearing about a witness who claimed they saw the box at the site before Joseph was dumped there, but I'm struggling to find a source for it and don't have the time to search, especially as there's a plethora of new articles about the case since he's been identified.

That's addressed in one of the articles. It said there was a heavy rain 2 weeks prior from him being found. By that they estimated he had only been there 2-3 days at most. The day he was found there was a light mist of rain that was evident, but the box was still intact, so it hadn't been there longer than the 2-3 days.

 

[RaspberryMama]

One can't just waltz into the vital records office and ask for "ALL the birth certificates for the past 5 years, please."

You have to be the parent or close relative or the person himself / herself OR you have to wait 100+ years. Even a court can't subpoena every birth certificate in a 5 year period. Privacy laws prevent it and those aren't going to change in order to possibly find one child's identity out of millions. LE would have to have sufficient evidence that the particular ones they want have something to do with the case.

Was that guy really a police officer at one time??

 

[UnlicensedPI]

One can't just waltz into the vital records office and ask for "ALL the birth certificates for the past 5 years, please."

You have to be the parent or close relative or the person himself / herself OR you have to wait 100+ years. Even a court can't subpoena every birth certificate in a 5 year period. Privacy laws prevent it and those aren't going to change in order to possibly find one child's identity out of millions. LE would have to have sufficient evidence that the particular ones they want have something to do with the case.

Was that guy really a police officer at one time??

He's also making huge leaps and assumptions and "probably-ing" with extremely limited information and treating speculation as fact. There is a factual error in his research (marriage year, kind of an important one for his narrative about getting married during pregnancy). He's also literally making things up (a miscarriage, for which there is no evidence, which is a horrible thing to speculate) to explain the gaps in his theory (no children born in 1956-1957). He implies that this woman was pressured to marry this man, and she was forced to have children. He's manufacturing a story about this family's involvement in specific construction projects out of thin air and claims two men -- the father and uncle -- had originally planned to bury Joseph. Plus, he's "ruling out" a potential father because his other children didn't match up to the birth years as stated by LE, but he seems to be ignoring the fact that those birth certs were for children who shared a mother with Joseph, not necessarily both parents.

I could go on...but I'll just say that Philadelphia's abysmal clearance rate is no surprise with detectives like this one.

 

[IDK]

One can't just waltz into the vital records office and ask for "ALL the birth certificates for the past 5 years, please."

You have to be the parent or close relative or the person himself / herself OR you have to wait 100+ years. Even a court can't subpoena every birth certificate in a 5 year period. Privacy laws prevent it and those aren't going to change in order to possibly find one child's identity out of millions. LE would have to have sufficient evidence that the particular ones they want have something to do with the case.

Was that guy really a police officer at one time??

RSBM: “Was that guy really a police officer at one time??”

I think I missed something— which guy are we referring to? I thought I’d read every single entry here, but must have missed something!

 

[turbo_sloth]

Random thoughts/questions.

“Good idea” of perpetrator
Confused why police say they have a “good idea” of who the perpetrator is but don’t at least name a person of interest. Yet go on to say that they may NEVER ID someone. I feel like there are much younger cases where the police at least ID a suspect. Unless they really have no idea…but then why say they have a “good idea” of the perp? Personally feel like they're causing more people to speculate and drag more people into this than if they just id'd his parents and said they don't think they were involved.


West Philly - 61st & Market
How would police know what area JAZ was living in right down to certain streets (west Philly, between 61st and market). Are they just basing it off of info found on his birth certificate or do we think they have other info? Do we know if they're saying that's the area he lived in right before he died or just the only known address associated with him ie on his birth certificate?


“Navajo” Blanket
Do we know if the blanket JAZ was found in has been tested for DNA at all? Testing has advanced so much that they might be able to glean much more information from the blanket now than before.

There was speculation that the blanket was cut into two pieces to hide the fact that there may have been an identifying logo or emblem on it. It was hypothesized that the blanket was of an “institutional” type ie like from a hospital but given the outdoorsy pattern did investigators consider it might be from a school or summer camp?


Custom Hat
Interesting to note that the age of the suspected father aligns so closely with the age range of the man the shop keeper mentioned as purchasing a custom hat found at the crime scene. Someone between the ages of 26-32. Given the man's appearance and resemblance to the boy, could this have been a relative or friend of one of the birth parents who informally adopted JAZ?


Long Hair
What exactly constitutes “long hair”?

At the time, anything beyond a buzz cut was considered “long” for a male. So perhaps detectives aren't saying the boy had long hair in the sense that we would think of long hair today, i.e like a girl but hair that was longer than the length that they found on the boy when he was deceased because it had been cut down to the skin.

Personally, I don’t buy the theory that JAZ was raised as a girl.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

61st and Market is a corner, so it won't be between the streets.

 

[HarmonyE.]

West Philly - 61st & Market
How would police know what area JAZ was living in right down to certain streets (west Philly, between 61st and market). Are they just basing it off of info found on his birth certificate or do we think they have other info? Do we know if they're saying that's the area he lived in right before he died or just the only known address associated with him ie on his birth certificate?

This one is especially perplexing because if they are saying they know Joseph lived here at the time of his death, then they know everything they probably will ever know. The investigator came off as very emphatic here, sort of like "I'll be specific. It was 61st and Market, okay?" But if they know this, they must know who he was living with, and as he wasn't kidnapped or otherwise reported missing, he must have been living with his killer.

Conversely, if this is just reported on the birth certificate, it's meaningful only with respect to his birth, and they already know who his parents were thanks to DNA.

But if Joseph lived at or near this busy corner in 1957 I'm at a total loss as to why someone didn't notice him gone and connect him with the famous boy in the box. Maybe the family moved abruptly after he died? Or maybe they hadn't been there very long?

 

[Laughing]

Another problem is that birth certificates given by the hospital, the ones with the footprints, are not official. The hospital may not keep copies and they are not filed in a central place if retained.

After 45 years, I contacted the hospital for my birth records and they could not provide them. Neither could the church where I was baptized. The state has a record, but there is nothing identifiable on it.

Somewhat OT:

If you were baptized in a church that was part of a denomination -- the denomination should have a record. Finding the location & custodian of such records, a different story.

In my church, we have record of the first baptism in 1864, and of most if not all after that. We Presbyterians are big on record keeping.

Wonder if Joseph has a baptismal record???