Identified! PA - Philadelphia, 'Boy in the Box', WhtMale 4-6, 4UMPA, Feb'57

[CarlK90245]

If anyone can let me know if there is a better place to post, and look for help, that would be appreciated.

Welcome to WS, Rutt

:welcome:

This is the place to discuss this. You say you have a partial name. Is it a First Initial, last name? Is it a common last name?

We can't publicly discuss people by name on this forum unless they are publicly named in connection with the case, or are missing persons. But If you want, you can disclose it to the other members via private message if they request it.

I'm sure that there are plenty of other members here who would be willing to help. Ms. Suzanne, whose sister has been missing since 1983, has taken a very strong interest in this case, and I'm sure she would be interested in looking into any info you might have.

 

[JeannieC]

Rutt, your story sounds very much like one I've read. Do you know if your brother contacted the Vidocq Society concerning the boy in the box?

Here is the story:

Unidentified Pennsylvania Informant #1 - In December 1999, a Bucks County, PA man contacted the America's Unknown Child web site and the Vidocq Society. He declared that his family might be able to shed some light on the Boy in the Box case. The man said that he had been born and raised in Philadelphia. He recalled that his parents briefly rented a house in the Oxford Circle section of the city to an out-of-town family in 1956/57. Throughout their nine-month residency, the tenant family remained very secretive and aloof, and little was known about them. Allegedly, most of the neighbors didn't even know how many people actually lived in the house! At about the time the unknown boy's body was discovered, the tenant family moved away quite suddenly, perhaps in the middle of the night. The family departed in such a hurry that they left breakfast dishes and food on the kitchen table! Judging by some articles of clothing and other personal items that were left behind, it was evident that a young boy had lived in the house. The man's mother allegedly reported this incident to the Philadelphia police in March, 1957 but never received any feedback. In late December, the man and his sister personally met with Sam Weinstein and Bill Kelly of the Vidocq Society and discussed the details of this intriguing story.

In August 2000, while searching through the original case files, Vidocq Society investigators, Bill Kelly and Joseph McGillen, discovered an index card confirming that in March, 1957 the lead about the hasty overnight departure of a mysterious tenant family in the Oxford Circle area had been provided to the Philadelphia police. The card also bore the name of a female neighbor whom police had interviewed after getting that tip. The neighbor had babysat for the tenant family during the short time they lived in the neighborhood. She testified that there was a young boy in that family, but he was only 2-1/2 years old at the time (rather than the unknown boy's estimated age of 4 or 5), and that he bore no resemblance to the unknown boy in the box. There was a reference number on the index card to a page number in one of the master books containing the actual interview with the neighbor, but the Vidocq investigators were unable to locate the specific report. However, the brief information on the index card provided sufficient evidence that the lead was checked out in 1957 and found to be of no value in the case.

http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Yes,welcome Rutt.I am very interested in following your lead and story and find out who these people are too.Thank you for writting here.

 

[JeannieC]

Anything that can be DNA tested?
His DNA?
To be run through a national and International DATABASE?
The hat?
maybe something is on it?
:waitasec:

They did test for DNA and were only able to obtain mitochondrial DNA it has been entered.

Evidence Obtained From The Victim's Body (1998):

DNA technology did not exist in 1957. Forty-one years later, after the long-dormant case was reactivated, the boy's remains were exhumed for the purpose of obtaining tissue samples for DNA analysis. Investigators hoped to compare the boy's nuclear DNA profile against the DNA profiles of current and future suspects & claimants. Unfortunately, by that time, the remains were far too degraded to permit extraction of viable nuclear DNA. However, after several failed attempts, tissue samples were sent to an independent DNA laboratory, which successfully extracted mitochondrial DNA from the boy's teeth. Although a mitochondrial DNA profile is a less useful forensic tool than a nuclear DNA profile in certain respects, it can never-the-less be used to confirm or rule out a genetic relationship through maternal lineage. The victim's mitochondrial DNA profile has already been used to rule out the possibility that he was Steven Damman, a missing New York boy who was kidnapped in 1955.

http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm

 

[Rutt]

If I did not make it clear, my mother died in 1984 (someone asked if my mother could give information). On the outside chance that I do know who was connected in this case (the renters) I wouldn't want to post their name anyway, that would be crazy. If they're innocent, it would be bad for me to mention names, if guilty, that could be bad too! So rest assured, I won't post that here. What I do know of his name, I know his First Initial, I THINK I know his middle name, which is what my folks called him, and I know his last name. His last name is semi common, but with a different spelling. Such as:

S Adm Smyth

His first name I do not know, just that it's "S", his middle name I am sure is Adam, but it was abbreviated (my folks called him "Adam Smyth"), his last name is spelled slightly different then one would think.

Again, the above is just an example, not close to his real name. I know it's not like I can be assured I have the real answer in this case, chances are I don't. Even if I did, I can't imagine anyone involved is watching this update here, but rest assured, I won't want to talk too loud. I feel a tad nervous already divulging what I have, but I treasure help.

One last thing, the above two paragraphs taken from the Boy in the Box website, posted by JeannieC, asking if my brother is the one who its referring to, the answer is "no". I am the one who it speaks about, from a dozen years ago.

Rutt

 

[JeannieC]

When I saw this little boy I wondered if he could be a younger brother to the boy in the box. Not based on looks alone but being wrapped in a blanket and dumped. Then the two iron assayer's molds. These can be different sizes and shapes and they are used for iron works, gold ore, and other metals. Unless I'm mistaken, Philadelphia had iron works plants in the 50's and 60's. Possibly still do.

Another point, "He may have suffered from a developmental disability or genetic abnormality. Characteristics of Downs Syndrome."
In the 50's and 60's very few parents knew what to do for a child with Downs Syndrome.

I don't know how they knew this from the autopsy so anyone who knows please speak up!

My point is, if the boy in the box had downs syndrome the parents might have kept him hidden from other people. He had several surgeries which might have been needed for downs syndrome. ( I really don't know this so anyone with knowledge please jump in!)

My next question is whether anyone thinks these two little boy resemble?
I know one is blue eyed and one has brown eyes. Not unusual in the same family.

The Doe Network: Case File 1144UMOR

Unidentified White Male Child
•The victim was discovered on July 11, 1963 in Jackson County, Oregon
•Estimated Date of Death: after October 1962

The body was wrapped in an aqua blanket and a handmade patchwork quilt that included lots of red, including red gingham squares. Two iron assayer's molds were wrapped in the quilt, apparently to weigh the body down. Thin brass wire and several loops of copper wire with a lead sheath and rubber insulation secured the bundle.
Reports indicated that both the molds, designed for refining and casting metal, and the telephone wire were once common, but already old and seldom used by the time the boy was found.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/1144umor.html

http://doenetwork.org/cases/4umpa.html

 

[Tilmylastbreath]

I remember seeing something on a show spot lighting "the boy in the box". i cant remember what show (grrr). sorry, im getting old lol. I remember they thought he had been part of a child *advertiser censored* ring, the old school police dismissed the theory, todays police know its more prevalent then once believed. Fresh eyes always help cold cases.

heres some info on it:

Boy In The Box
http://boyinthebox.bravehost.com/updates.htm

btw, thanks for the great links you've all posted. you guys are goooood.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

May I please ask do you know where in the deep south they were from?

 

[Rutt]

I have been working many many hours, since the company I worked with for 31 years was privatized, I have been working 70 hours a week to make close to, but not quite reaching, what I use to bring home (6 mouths to feed). I want so bad to talk with you all, and I must say, I have a possible amazing connection to the man I have been searching for. I just found this out and I shaking as I type this! I hope to be able to take time and explain, and ask for help. This is no crazy story, I just MAY BE on my way to getting an answer. I am not 100% sure, but please pray and I will chat soon. Perhaps Saturday I will get back on. I can't believe I have to wait that long,, I may explode before then!!!

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I have been working many many hours, since the company I worked with for 31 years was privatized, I have been working 70 hours a week to make close to, but not quite reaching, what I use to bring home (6 mouths to feed). I want so bad to talk with you all, and I must say, I have a possible amazing connection to the man I have been searching for. I just found this out and I shaking as I type this! I hope to be able to take time and explain, and ask for help. This is no crazy story, I just MAY BE on my way to getting an answer. I am not 100% sure, but please pray and I will chat soon. Perhaps Saturday I will get back on. I can't believe I have to wait that long,, I may explode before then!!!

Hang in there, our thoughts and prayers are with you just as much as our inquiring minds are!!!!

 

[amber1]

I hope we can get any kind of answer for this boy, most preferably his identity.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

You know,I wonder who these people were and what made them think so strongly that their mother was the boy in the box's birth parent.Did they have a brother or something.Were they raised with him.Did they ever look into this further to see if the that boy was the boy in the box?


From Americas unknown boy website.

http://americasunknownchild.net/recent.htm

March 2004: Detective Tom Augustine was contacted by people in Florida who claimed that their mother was the unknown boy's birth parent. They submitted DNA samples for testing at their own expense. The DNA samples were analyzed, but they didn't match. When Detective Augustine informed them of this, the people in Florida insisted that the DNA lab must have made a mistake because they were absolutely certain that their mother was the boy's birth parent! Subsequently, they submitted a sample of their mother's DNA for analysis, again at their own expense. The mother's DNA sample also failed to match the unknown boy's DNA profile.

 

[amber1]

That is very odd, they must have honestly thought she was, paying money for it and having it done twice...I wonder if they know something else about it and did this because they felt guilty about something they know?

 

[JeannieC]

That is very odd, they must have honestly thought she was, paying money for it and having it done twice...I wonder if they know something else about it and did this because they felt guilty about something they know?

It does make you think. Suppose the Boy in the Box wasn't her birth child. Possibly abducted or taken in from a relative. Maybe they should test their own DNA and see if each of them are related to each other and their mother.

 

[Rutt]

Don't know if I am on to this boy's story, but I haven't slept in 3 days since I felt I really may be on to something. You should be skeptical, I would if I was you. I just don't know what to do next, I want to speak to a buddy of mine to help me make the right moves. Basically, I feel like I located the man, the family, who my mother suspected COULD have been connected to this boy's story. After 14 years, I may have found the man. I need to be careful, not to blow it. I can't call in authorities as I just don't know for sure if there is a connection, there might not be and I know it! I want to search for a few facts, without raising suspicion. I wish I could get a few of you together on some kind of page here on this site, where no one else can come in unless allowed, so I can tap your brains for suggestions. Any tips on that idea? Please understand, I have shared this with just a couple of people (and not all details to anyone) because I don't want to blow it. Also, I don't want to make a fool of myself. BUT, I have been walking around like a zombie 3 days thinking in the near future this poor boy may get a name, and my mother's many efforts and sadness over a failed attempt to shed some light on this case might not have been in vain.

Rutt

 

[amber1]

Rutt,
I would say that is a great idea, and I have always believed that even decades and decades later, someone who holds the answers is still alive out there, probably driven mad with what secrets about him they hold. I really do hope you find any answers out, big or small, that authorities can work with.

 

[JeannieC]

Rutt,

Did your family move back into the house after the people left? How large was the house? Two story with a basement and attic? I wonder if a child could have easily been kept out of site. What kind of heat was used in the house? Was it an older home with a coal furnace and a coal bin in the basement by any chance?

 

[Rutt]

It was (and is) a row home. It was a two story house, with a basement. There was no attic, no coal bin (radiator heat), but to back your thought: my parents would talk about how the neighbors weren't sure if there were kids or not when the renters were there, if so, how many! This was something they explained to us as we grew up. In Late February or March of 1957 my family found that this house, which they owned and was renting out, had been abandoned, unannounced. They were renting our home out to save money, as they, my family, moved in with my father's sister. When they found the house was abandoned, they moved back in. I always heard growing up how badly our home was trashed, truly trashed! It hit them at this time that there may have been a connection to this poor child, for many reasons. I don't want to give too many details here, but it was intriguing. I feel kinda overwhelmed at this point since I feel I may have located where this family went to, just a few days ago. It seems very likely in fact that I do know, after 14 years of trying. I have constantly been thinking these last 4 days or so that this MAY really be resolved, but before I make a fool of myself and blow any whistles, I need to shut up and check a few more details out.

I haven't slept much! I am no expert and not quite sure what to do next. I have reached out to two people via email, who I think can guide me, but I haven't heard back yet. I feel it best to keep it on the extreme down-low until I can figure how to find out a little more information. That's why I came to this site a couple of weeks ago, to get guidance and tips and share my thoughts. I am happy that this is something I can perhaps shed light on, for my poor parents sake (they died many years ago) who did try more then once back then to get it checked out more thoroughly!

<modsnip>

 

[JeannieC]

Do you have any idea where the family came from? What state in the south or close proximity. The accents are very different from one area to another even within southern states. I have a relative or relatives in just about every southern state and believe me none of them sounded alike.

I was raised in the North and the same is true of North and the same is true there. We all came from different places and it goes back generations.

You mentioned a crutch put through a wall. Was it a child's crutch or dou\ you know? Did you parents mention children's clothes being left behind or toys?

Thanks Rutt!

 

[Rutt]

Well, I have just found out this week that they may have come from Mississippi. I recall my folks thinking they may have come from Georgia, but I think that was a guess. I was looking for this family with a somewhat common surname, but one letter different. Photocopies I got from the mid-1950's Philadelphia phone directory gave me this spelling. All these years I was looking mostly on that spelling, but someone helping me checked the more common spelling, and pointed out the Mississippi family and this looks to be them. I am not sure, I have a few questions to ask someone who handles their family tree page, and if this person can tie up some loose ends, I will know for sure. I got so excited this week when I came across this information (I had search for 14 years for them) that I took for granted I had the answer. Just because I may have discovered our renters doesn't make them guilty, I know. I need to catch my breath, and take my time and see if I can find out if they went back home with any secrets. They may only be guilty for trashing our home. Which leads to your question about the crutch. I am not sure, I will see if I can find out. It's been 55 years, I don't know if my siblings (who were young at the time) can answer that.