PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[BigCat]

I've watched the RFG episode of Disappeared so many times now that I'm noticing the smallest details (I'm beginning to feel like a one of those people who go see The Rocky Horror Picture Show every weekend and repeat the lines as the actors say them). In one of the scene, the Bellefonte lead investigator is walking around the area where RFG disappeared, he's wearing a Penn State wrestling jacket similiar to the one Sandusky wore when he was arrested.

One of the better examples of Carl Jung's principle of synchronicity ("temporally coincident occurrences of acausal events") at work, I think.

I'm glad the PA State Police are on the case now. Someone needs to be looking hard into the "Sandusky Situation" and, IMO, the Bellefonte PD are not the ones for that task. They've had 6 years to look in other directions and have gotten nowhere.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Zaccagni is class of 1977. Someplace on-line, I have seen photos of him at PSU events where Sandusky was also in attendance. I would however expect that at least half the county would be in a photograph at an event with Sandusky.

About 41,000 alumni live in Centre County alone (as of 2012). PSU is also the number one employer, with, in 2013 more than 24,000. It dwarfs Mt. Nittany Health by more than 12 times. http://www.centredaily.com/2013/02/09/3493324/penn-state-still-regions-no-1.html

That would not include subcontractors, or employers who depend on students/employees for the bulk of sales, and their employees. v It would also not include retirees from PSU.

Roughly 45,000 students attend PSU-University Park, with about 6,000 counted as employees.

In 2010, the population of Centre County was roughly 154,000, with about 16% being under age 18, or roughly 129,360. This is a rough estimate, but about 80,000 of them either go to or went to PSU (probably about 62% of the adult population). Perhaps another 10-14 K are direct employees; there might be a few hundred to a few thousand retirees from PSU.

On the 4 judges that make up the Centre County bench, three are PSU graduates (and the fourth volunteered at TSM).

In terms of RFG:

A. His first ex-wife is employed there.
B. His girlfriend is an alumnae.
C. His nephew, Chris, is an alumnus.
D. His two closest friends, Sloane and Walker, are both alumni.
E. His staff included at least 4 alumni (included those previously mentioned).
F. The lead investigator first looking at his disappearance, Zaccagni, is an alumnus.
G. The editor of newspaper at the time of his disappearance and for almost seven years afterward, Heisse, is an alumnus.
H. One of the reporters covering him, Ganim, is an alumnae.
I. The blogger writing about the case, J. J., is an alumnus.

CENTRAL PENNSYLVANIA GOTHIC​

I wholeheartedly agree that this case should have moved from Centre County, especially after November 2011.

 

[BigCat]

What about Ron Schreffler? Was he considered a PSU employee? To what extent was RFG his boss?

I know RFG ordered the sting operation, so obviously he had some authority over Schreffler.

In general, I don't understand how university police departments work, or even if they all work the same way.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What about Ron Schreffler? Was he considered a PSU employee? To what extent was RFG his boss?

I know RFG ordered the sting operation, so obviously he had some authority over Schreffler.

In general, I don't understand how university police departments work, or even if they all work the same way.

A DA does not have the authority to order around a local police department. It gets information from and can tell it won't prosecute a case, but it has no supervisory role in the running of a police department.

 

[Trackergd]

I am 100% sure of one thing.

To keep up with this case, all the details, time line and flow chart would require the largest white board Staples carries....

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In the Central Pennsylvania Gothic department, this is the first post on this board (anyplace) on Jerry Sandusky:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

I posted it just after I got an alert for "Ray Gricar," and before the grand jury report was released. When I posted it, I am sure that I was wearing my class ring, indicating that I was a PSU graduate.

Had I gone to Pitt, I doubt if I would been posting on this, or the Sandusky, story.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I am 100% sure of one thing.

To keep up with this case, all the details, time line and flow chart would require the largest white board Staples carries....

" It has all the elements of a gothic horror story, Stephen King meets Peyton Place. A stalwart of the community alleged to be pedophilic monster, who preyed on young innocent victims. A secular priesthood of administrators allegedly hiding the monster in the cloister of the university. A pervasive evil allegedly reaching out into the community under the guise of great institutions for learning and charity. A riot in the streets. Interconnections between individuals and institutions that looks metaphorically as incestuous as the Habsburg family tree.5 A paladin of law enforcement, who was supposed to fight this monster, who seemingly laid down his sword and later vanishing off the face of the earth. All these are elements of Central Pennsylvania Gothic, a horror unimagined until 2011."

http://www.centredaily.com/2012/02/04/3078101/central-pennsylvania-gothic.html#storylink=cpy

People think I am joking. I am not.

 

[PPKik]

And I play Devil's Advocate, including with my own stuff.

Most of it does work. Where I disagree is that any of it happened in 2004 and that JKA was deliberately (that is implied) trying to do this. It depends on what RFG thought JKA's intentions were, not what JKA's intentions really were. She might have assumed that RFG investigated and that there was nothing to it. She might have completely forgotten about it by 2005.

That could have added to RFG's reaction, but, as BigCat noted, unless there is something else, I doubt if it would be the sole cause of some voluntary act of RFG's.

If RFG had done something illegal regarding Sandusky, that would be a good reason for suicide or walkaway. We don't have anything illegal, however. Even off the record, I have not heard a hint of anything illegal.

BBM


For me this is an amazing forum in terms of the accumulated knowledge and data known or collected by you and other posters.

Reading the bolded-by-me part of your post took me aback a little. You say "If RFG had done something illegal regarding Sandusky, that would be a good reason for suicide or walkaway."

Do you really think "If....", that he would have done either?

Both alternatives have always seemed extreme and unreasonable, unless RFG had an irresistible impulse to kill himself (which some successfully suicidal people apparently do).

We have no evidence that RFG previously did have these thoughts or impulses, do we? Would he, or even most people, end their lives (hypothetically) because of something illegal they may have done, which we have no reason to think exists? The walkway theory I find as hard to imagine. Walkaway away to what, with apparently nothing with him? And, Why? Where? No one benefitted that I know of and many were hurt.

As always, I find yours and others' posts and knowledge of this "Gothic" mystery both thought-provoking and always worth reading and contemplating.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I just wanted to say that I think just about every post here, as of late, is worth reading. I had a question today that I could not answer; that is good.

I'm snipping this a bit.

For me this is an amazing forum in terms of the accumulated knowledge and data known or collected by you and other posters.

Reading the bolded-by-me part of your post took me aback a little. You say "If RFG had done something illegal regarding Sandusky, that would be a good reason for suicide or walkaway."

Do you really think "If....", that he would have done either?

It has to do with his pension (and possible jail time). If RFG did something in an official capacity that was illegal, he would lose his pension. Seeing that his heirs would collect that pension (which is higher if he never claims it), could be a motivation for either.

We've also discussed his estate; there could be signs of estate planning, that could point to him not planning to be around for retirement. This could be a preparation for either.

RFG was acting differently for at least five weeks prior to his disappearance; that could be an indication of either.

There are some things that point to voluntary departure (walkaway):

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/22/2397093/wiley-and-gricar-the-timing.html

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/03/2396735/2020-hindsight.html

Both could be coincidental, but the level of coincidence, with other evidence, is getting higher.

Likewise, the was a history of depression in the Gricar family, with his brother suffering from bi-polar depression and committing suicide. Both can be genetic.

It isn't a single factor, but it is the evidence gaining weight.

So far, there is no evidence that RFG did anything illegal in regard to Sandusky. If that evidence would pop up, that would provide a strong motive for suicide or walkaway.

 

[Trackergd]

Okay assuming walkaway (or suicide):

1. What would the police have done if they found the laptop, minus the drive, in the Mini on 4/16?

2. What would have happened if the police, after getting the laptop on 4/17, had checked it (maybe on 4/18-4/19) and discovered that there was no drive?

These are both good questions, and for once (or twice), I do not have an answer.

1. Probably try to access the RAM (random access memory) to see if anything of note was contained in it.

2. Gone back and searched for the drive. Once they had discovered the searches on how to destroy a hard drive, the missing hard drive would have made sense.

Whomever removed the hard drive from the laptop and put both in the river did so with the expectation the data would not be recoverable, even by the best data recovery company in the business. You don't go to that extreme for run of the mill data, or for that matter, even for financial records. The IT department for the county could have used an electromagnetic loop to wipe the hard drive for RG. It appears he did not want anyone to have access to this laptop, notably IT staff until such time as he could remove the data.

I say this because it is common practice to wipe a computer before issuing it to a new employee. RG was quite focused on doing the data destruction himself rather than letting IT do it. This has me quite curious. The information may not have been damning to RG, rather it could have been to someone else.

Oddly enough, thumb drives do tend to survive immersion. I am not sure if that model laptop had a USB port to download to a thumb drive.

I find it very strange that RG stored the laptop in a closet at home. I would never think of doing that with my company issued laptop. I doubt most people here would store company property at home, unless they regularly work from home. I have a very powerful desktop Dell for my regular work, and a laptop for meetings and if I want to work on a project at home, so it does not get used all that much. I keep it at work and only take it home if I crunched for time and need to finish something.

I just have this feeling that RG did not want anyone else to lay hands on that laptop.

 

[BigCat]

Respectfully snipped:

Unknown party picks RG and the Mini up and drives RG to points unknown and returns the car to the same place a couple of hours later. Unknown person smokes.

I've been thinking about this point. I've never really considered it before. At first, I found it too risky of a scenario for his accomplice. However, after further thought, I don't think so because a) they waited until sundown to drive off together and b) it's not a crime to aid in someone's voluntary disappearance.

Steve Sloane would be an obvious candidate to aid RFG in a walk away scenario (and we know his smokes. haha). Is his time accounted for that day?

Though it's not a crime to help someone disappear, it is a crime to give false information to police. If someone did help RFG, that person could just refuse to cooperate with police, I suppose. It seems a lot to ask of a friend, to be put in that position. Of course, the person could have been paid for his or her trouble.

JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipping for length:

1. Probably try to access the RAM (random access memory) to see if anything of note was contained in it.

2. Gone back and searched for the drive. Once they had discovered the searches on how to destroy a hard drive, the missing hard drive would have made sense.

The second point is the key. It would be an indication that they should be looking for a drive as opposed to a laptop or a body.

I am interested in what type of date would be held by the RAM?


I agree that RFG wanted to make sure that no one else saw the data. One thing that I have speculated on is personnel reports on employees.

Oddly enough, thumb drives do tend to survive immersion. I am not sure if that model laptop had a USB port to download to a thumb drive.

It had a port to plug in accessories, so I'm guessing that a that a thumb drive could have been in used.

I find it very strange that RG stored the laptop in a closet at home. I would never think of doing that with my company issued laptop. I doubt most people here would store company property at home, unless they regularly work from home.

Remember that RFG was not an employee, but the guy in charge. He made the rules. My understanding was that he did not have a desktop until late 2004, so any work that he did at home would be on that laptop.

I just have this feeling that RG did not want anyone else to lay hands on that laptop.

Agreed, but that might not be unusual.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped:



I've been thinking about this point. I've never really considered it before. At first, I found it too risky of a scenario for his accomplice. However, after further thought, I don't think so because a) they waited until sundown to drive off together and b) it's not a crime to aid in someone's voluntary disappearance.

Steve Sloane would be an obvious candidate to aid RFG in a walk away scenario (and we know his smokes. haha). Is his time accounted for that day?

Though it's not a crime to help someone disappear, it is a crime to give false information to police. If someone did help RFG, that person could just refuse to cooperate with police, I suppose. It seems a lot to ask of a friend, to be put in that position. Of course, the person could have been paid for his or her trouble.

JMO

I have a list of about 20-30 candidates for the helper. I refer to them as the "Inner Circle," or IC.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think we talked about this case a while back, but we do have a homicide victim that was found in a well populated area of Central PA that had been dead for as long as 10 years. http://fox43.com/2014/04/17/human-r...to-be-those-of-homicide-victim/#axzz30fKRYb5Z

It is not RFG, but it does show that homicide victims (or presumably suicide victims) can go undiscovered.

 

[nittanylioness234]

I don't put much stock in psychics, but I was intrigued by the comments of Zaccagni in this article about Carla Baron helping out early on in the investigation. He talks about a tan or brown car following Gricar on 192 on 4/15, and that this was corroborated by previously "unreleased witness reports to state police in Milton." What witness reports? I haven't seen any mention of these reports since. Were they discredited?

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/06/prweb247770.htm

Another article about Baron's involvement:

http://www.centredaily.com/2005/05/12/3775/psychic-joins-gricar-case.html?sp=/99/116/118/138/

Her website. Articles about Gricar a bit more than halfway down:

http://carlabaron.net/missing2.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped:

I don't put much stock in psychics, but I was intrigued by the comments of Zaccagni in this article about Carla Baron helping out early on in the investigation. He talks about a tan or brown car following Gricar on 192 on 4/15, and that this was corroborated by previously "unreleased witness reports to state police in Milton." What witness reports? I haven't seen any mention of these reports since. Were they discredited?

There was a "construction worker type" seen leaning into the Mini in the SoS parking lot. I don't think it has been ruled out, but might be one of the witnesses listed as seeing RFG in the parking lot. I think that came out after Baron was around.

The was a report of a Mini and a tan car stopped along I-80 heading between Lewisburg and Bellefonte, but I think that was ruled out.

There was at least one witness that saw RFG turning on 192.

There is also the Fenton sighting, that put RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Courthouse in Bellefonte at 3:00 PM on 4/15. http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html

See also: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/03/12/2397159/behind-the-courthouse.html

 

[shadow of my mind]

In looking over the last few news articles that have been in the posts, out of all of them I find these two the most odd.

[I]"If my chief wants me to go and do that, I have no problem with doing that," Zaccagni said.[/I] [referring to interviewing people]
Article Posted: May 13, 2006 Source: http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html

Wasn’t Zaccagni, at least originally, the lead investigator in this?
He needed the Chiefs blessings before he interviewed people during this investigation?
Wasn’t he removed as the lead or did I just dream that? When? and Why?

Then you add this to the mix.

But Centre County Assistant District Attorney Carolyn Fenton said she saw Gricar in the county courthouse parking lot in Bellefonte about 3 p.m. April 15, Zaccagni revealed.
Fenton, then a law clerk for Judge David E. Grine, was taking the afternoon off after a trial ended and was feeling guilty about leaving early, she said.
"I see a car leaving the parking lot and the driver was Ray," Fenton said Friday. Police never revealed the sighting until questioned by the Centre Daily Times, which then contacted Fenton.
"I thought, 'Well, even the district attorney is taking the rest of the day off, so I don't feel so bad now,' " Fenton said.
She looked to see if Patty Fornicola, Gricar's housemate, girlfriend and co-worker, was in the passenger seat. But Gricar was alone, Fenton said.
Fenton said she was about 15 to 20 feet away. Gricar was driving a gold or silver, metallic-colored car, not his Mini Cooper or Fornicola's Honda, she said.
When she heard Gricar was missing, she went to police. But her sighting was immediately ruled out as not fitting the timeline they'd established, which put Gricar in Lewisburg at that time.
Article Posted May 13, 2006 Source: http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html

To me, not interviewing everyone who worked with RG, especially those in the same office and dismissing a witness, especially one who would have no problem accurately recognizing the man, because it didn’t fit a timeline that was based on witnesses who had never seen the man before just really brings up the question of exactly what “theory” Bellefonte police where tying to shoehorn the “facts” into.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That article prompted the PSP-CIA review and is one of the seminal articles on the case. See:

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/05/12/2397371_the-week-of-the-media-hurricane.html

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/06/2396651/the-investigation-part-ten-mr.html

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/10/2396666/the-investigation-part-11-the.html

From what I know about the timeline, I know of no witness sightings between roughly 1:30 PM and 4:00 PM on 4/15/05 (it be 1 PM to 5 PM), in Lewisburg or the surrounding area. It is possible that RFG could have acquired another car and driven to Bellefonte and back to Lewisburg and picked up the Mini.

The camera behind the Courthouse does not show the metallic colored car, however.

 

[shadow of my mind]

That article prompted the PSP-CIA review and is one of the seminal articles on the case. See:

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/05/12/2397371_the-week-of-the-media-hurricane.html

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/06/2396651/the-investigation-part-ten-mr.html

http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/10/2396666/the-investigation-part-11-the.html

From what I know about the timeline, I know of no witness sightings between roughly 1:30 PM and 4:00 PM on 4/15/05 (it be 1 PM to 5 PM), in Lewisburg or the surrounding area. It is possible that RFG could have acquired another car and driven to Bellefonte and back to Lewisburg and picked up the Mini.

The camera behind the Courthouse does not show the metallic colored car, however.

Thank you J.J. for the links and the information about no witnesses sightings in the afternoon.

This leaves several questions. First, what else did the PSP-CIA review find of conclude? Why was there this very strange limitation on questions? Second, why did Mr. Madeira feel a need to hide this from the public for so long? Why did he release it, not on the second or third anniversary, but on the fourth anniversary? These are questions Mr. Madeira is not answering.Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/09/10/2396666/the-investigation-part-11-the.html#storylink=cpy

I just copied the above because it saved me from having to type out exactly my same thoughts.


Not taking into account any of the information from the psychic, in my opinion there are some major holes that call into question how this was handled. It sounds to me that once they found the car in Lewisburg, next to a river (just like his brother) that the immediate assumption was suicide and to h3!! with seriously looking into any other possibilities. By the time they got around to thinking maybe it wasn't suicide, way too much time had been wasted; along with the potential to find good solid evidence, had gone by.

Just of the top of my head here is a list of questions that I will bet was never looked into.

Food & Gas
Did he routinely skip lunch?
Did RG have a habit of packing a lunch or grabbing an energy bar for an on-the-go lunch?
Did anyone see him eat anything in Lewisburg or any other place?
Did he always eat out? Would he do Deli type food or would he maybe have done a drive through meals like Micky Ds. Would he eat somewhere that didn't serve an alcoholic beverage?

What about gas in the car?
How much was in the tank? when they found it?
How far could a mini go on a tank of gas?
Anybody see him get gas that day?
Did he normally fill-up at the same place and was it on a schedule?
When was his car last serviced and where?

Surveillance Tapes
Other than the courthouse parking lot ( and we don't really know the camera angles or how much of the lot it covered) nothing has been said about catching him or the car in any other surveillance footage. I know there was not as many cameras in 2005 as there are now, but some places did have them.

At Home
Did RG have a house-cleaning service come in?
Lawn or landscape service?
At home Pick-up/drop-off dry cleaning service?
Any recent house repairs?
Carpets or furniture cleaned?
Any door to door salesman or surveys being done in the area?
Security system?
Internet service?

And J.J., you are absolutely, most definitely correct; they should have checked car rentals in anyone's name in a large area surroundings the area for the entire week.

Any of these things would have helped rule out:
Someone had found a way into the home,
Managed to get him to stop and grab him and the car
Would have had a starting point to tail him.

Eliminate some of these possibilities and you would have had a clearer picture.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

MTM thinks RFG probably walked away and, as a friend, was worried about public outrage if he did (that was pre-Sandusky). At least that was my best guess.

Some thinks he also released when he began to get some public pressure in an election year.

Snipping a bit:

It sounds to me that once they found the car in Lewisburg, next to a river (just like his brother) that the immediate assumption was suicide and to h3!! with seriously looking into any other possibilities. By the time they got around to thinking maybe it wasn't suicide, way too much time had been wasted; along with the potential to find good solid evidence, had gone by.

The nephews, when they got the call while driving there on 4/16 that the Mini was at the corner of St. George and Water Streets, they both thought suicide. That is understandable. There were also the reports of RFG acting strangely, which was known by 11:30 AM on 4/16 by LE. That reinforced it.

They were looking, almost exclusively, for a body on the first 4-5 days.

Just of the top of my head here is a list of questions that I will bet was never looked into.

I'll answer without quoting:

Food & Gas
Did he routinely skip lunch? He had been over the prior several weeks.
Did RG have a habit of packing a lunch or grabbing an energy bar for an on-the-go lunch? Never heard that this was common
Did anyone see him eat anything in Lewisburg or any other place? No, but it was crowded in Lewisburg that weekend.
Did he always eat out? No

Would he do Deli type food or would he maybe have done a drive through meals like Micky Ds. Would he eat somewhere that didn't serve an alcoholic beverage? I've only heard of him eating a sitdown place.

What about gas in the car?
How much was in the tank? when they found it?
How far could a mini go on a tank of gas?
Don't know, but the Mini had gas.

Anybody see him get gas that day?
Did he normally fill-up at the same place and was it on a schedule?
When was his car last serviced and where?

I don't know.

Surveillance Tapes
Other than the courthouse parking lot ( and we don't really know the camera angles or how much of the lot it covered) nothing has been said about catching him or the car in any other surveillance footage. I know there was not as many cameras in 2005 as there are now, but some places did have them.

No, but there are few places in route with cameras. The SoS did not.

At Home
Did RG have a house-cleaning service come in?
Lawn or landscape service?
not that I know of. The house is small.

At home Pick-up/drop-off dry cleaning service?
Very unlikely in Bellefonte. The town had under 7,000 people.
Any recent house repairs?
I've heard about the possibility of something being contemplated.

Carpets or furniture cleaned?
Any door to door salesman or surveys being done in the area?
Security system?
Not that I know of.
Internet service?

Yes.

I'll answer the rest in a second post.