PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #13

[SeekingJana]

I had a very basic, practical thought about the laptop this AM, and not being sure, I asked ( after Google turned up nothing): My husband, who should know about this topic ( but could be wrong), says that there are some countries where US software on a computer are not allowed.

Could this possibly be an additional reason for the laptop's destruction? I am going again with the " one- two punch" theory again: He wanted the info on the HD destroyed because he couldn't take the HD with him.. and because it contained info he did not wish to leave to be found and analyzed for his own reasons. We have covered the " He wanted the HD erased or destroyed" many times and I feel certain that we are right about this.
What if the reason for the destruction was because he couldn't take the HD to where he was traveling, even if he did replace the original HD with an identical one? Files downloaded to a thumb drive would might or might not work on a computer in, say, Eastern Europe.. or the cost of a laptop might be wildly expensive there, IDK.

It's just a thought I had about the " whys" of the things he did or that most people attribute to his hand.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped a bit.

I had a very basic, practical thought about the laptop this AM, and not being sure, I asked ( after Google turned up nothing): My husband, who should know about this topic ( but could be wrong), says that there are some countries where US software on a computer are not allowed.

Could this possibly be an additional reason for the laptop's destruction? I am going again with the " one- two punch" theory again: He wanted the info on the HD destroyed because he couldn't take the HD with him.. and because it contained info he did not wish to leave to be found and analyzed for his own reasons. We have covered the " He wanted the HD erased or destroyed" many times and I feel certain that we are right about this.

What countries? If it is Iran and North Korea, I don't think that would be relevant. If it was in Eastern Europe, it could be.

I can give these reasons.

1. RFG was planning to commit suicide and didn't want the county IT guy or the police pawing through his private documents. (I don't blame him.)

2. RFG was planning to walk away and was worried that if he took it with him, he could be charged with theft and that it might be possible to trace the laptop.

3. RFG didn't want the county IT guy pawing through his private documents; he tossed it, 50 miles from home. He was planning to return, but something happened. That "something" would include foul play.

That covers just about anything.

Now, we can rule out two things:

A. Somebody else wanted the data on the laptop. No body else knew what was on the laptop and why would RFG bring it?

B. Someone else wanted to destroy the data on the laptop. Nobody could have known if RFG either printed out the data, or copied it. He had access to two other computers, including one in the office; they were both still there.

Those two things are not much.

 

[SeekingJana]

I asked which countries specifically and I said China, of course, before he could, and then he said parts of Eastern Europe. I asked him if he meant Russia, and he said not only there. When I asked about Slovenia specifically, he said " I'd definitely think it would be on the list ( to exclude USA software).
I did lead him into the answer I was seeking, but he wouldn't have agreed if he didn't have reasons ( related to international security) to think Slovenia is not a destination for US- based software.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I asked which countries specifically and I said China, of course, before he could, and then he said parts of Eastern Europe. I asked him if he meant Russia, and he said not only there. When I asked about Slovenia specifically, he said " I'd definitely think it would be on the list ( to exclude USA software).
I did lead him into the answer I was seeking, but he wouldn't have agreed if he didn't have reasons ( related to international security) to think Slovenia is not a destination for US- based software.

Would that apply to private individuals carrying it, or a vender exporting it?

If it applies to private individual, that could be an addition explanation.

 

[SeekingJana]

Would that apply to private individuals carrying it, or a vender exporting it?

If it applies to private individual, that could be an addition explanation.

Private individuals entering countries via commercial flights. I was very specific about that part.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Private individuals entering countries via commercial flights. I was very specific about that part.

Okay, another possibility.

 

[JaimeSommers]

RFG would know how long it would take him to drive to Lewisburg. He would not necessarily know how long it would take someone else to drive to Lewisburg.

RFG has been called "an adventurous driver." He was known to drive fast and was once pulled over driving 80 on the Benner Pike; he was celebrating a win in court.

If RFG was talking to another driver, someone he was meeting, he could have checked the mileage to come up with the time it would take the other person to get to Lewisburg.

Respectfully again ... if RFG was really mapping directions from someone else's location to Lewisburg, we would know the person's address or, at least, town and state, from the same web history that told us he was mapping a route to Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully again ... if RFG was really mapping directions from someone else's location to Lewisburg, we would know the person's address or, at least, town and state, from the same web history that told us he was mapping a route to Lewisburg.

They have the route. It might not be door to door, just Bellefonte or State College to Lewisburg. Someone can map that out. I just used Google Maps and got directions from State College to Lewisburg, just using those terms.

It is also possible RFG was looking at the drive time if he was driving below the speed limit. One walkaway theory is that he was picked up by a helper who drove him back to Centre County on the night of 4/15. He may have returned on the morning of 4/16 to give LE the impression he was there on the night of 4/15-4/16. Driving back to Lewisburg on the morning of 4/16, he would not want to exceed the speed limit and be pulled over by the police, so he would drive more slowly.

 

[JaimeSommers]

They have the route. It might not be door to door, just Bellefonte or State College to Lewisburg. Someone can map that out. I just used Google Maps and got directions from State College to Lewisburg, just using those terms.

It is also possible RFG was looking at the drive time if he was driving below the speed limit. One walkaway theory is that he was picked up by a helper who drove him back to Centre County on the night of 4/15. He may have returned on the morning of 4/16 to give LE the impression he was there on the night of 4/15-4/16. Driving back to Lewisburg on the morning of 4/16, he would not want to exceed the speed limit and be pulled over by the police, so he would drive more slowly.

BBM ... Which brings me right back to my original point that RFG wouldn't need to look up how long it would take for him (or someone else) to get from here to Lewisburg (or back). He lived here long enough to know how long it takes regardless of how fast he (or someone else) would be driving.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM ... Which brings me right back to my original point that RFG wouldn't need to look up how long it would take for him (or someone else) to get from here to Lewisburg (or back). He lived here long enough to know how long it takes regardless of how fast he (or someone else) would be driving.

Maybe not. He was use to driving fast, and like most people, he might have though in terms of time as a unit of distance. Altoona, for example, was about an hour drive from where I lived; State College was an hour after that. After some road construction (designed to help Bob Jubilier win reelection), Altoona to home was about 45-50 minutes. I couldn't tell you, without looking, the mileage.

If I drove faster (I never got a ticket), it might have been 1:30 or even 1:15.

 

[SeekingJana]

I just watched Ray's " Disappeared" segment again ( last version with the Sandusky mess added).
They show a Mapquest map and the voice-over of Matt Rickard states that it was a print out of a map generated showing the route from Bellefonte to Lewisburg. There were a few very small communities here and there, but nothing of any note.

Also, this may not matter, but I thought it worth mentioning. On Oct. 15, Netflix will be eliminating the first 5 seasons of " Disappeared" from their streaming video line up. There may be copies on YT, IDK. But- the one last link we have to the family's and more importantly, Patty's statements and reactions will be lost if there are no back ups online of the show. I had it DVR'd and then had to have my DVR recorder replaced in a cable system upgrade, so I don't have a copy of my own.

 

[BigCat]

I just watched Ray's " Disappeared" segment again ( last version with the Sandusky mess added).
They show a Mapquest map and the voice-over of Matt Rickard states that it was a print out of a map generated showing the route from Bellefonte to Lewisburg. There were a few very small communities here and there, but nothing of any note.

Also, this may not matter, but I thought it worth mentioning. On Oct. 15, Netflix will be eliminating the first 5 seasons of " Disappeared" from their streaming video line up. There may be copies on YT, IDK. But- the one last link we have to the family's and more importantly, Patty's statements and reactions will be lost if there are no back ups online of the show. I had it DVR'd and then had to have my DVR recorder replaced in a cable system upgrade, so I don't have a copy of my own.

It's only a buck ninety-nine for a digital copy on Amazon. iTunes's television shows usually run a dollar more. Even if you don't have a Kindle or Apple device to watch it on, you can view the episode on your computer.

 

[SeekingJana]

It's only a buck ninety-nine for a digital copy on Amazon. iTunes's television shows usually run a dollar more. Even if you don't have a Kindle or Apple device to watch it on, you can view the episode on your computer.

I have a whiz bang Kindle HDX Fire 8.9".
Thank you very much for this info. I have watched videos with my Prime membership but never TV shows.. Mostly I read with mine. I'm going now to download. Really appreciate this, BigCat!

 

[Hbgchick]

I should read more carefully. Went to Amazon and paid $1.99 to watch the Disappeared episode before reading SeekingJana's full post. I have Netflix - could have watched it for free (till 10/15).

Watching it again yields nothing new, just makes it all the more frustrating. I am sure we have asked/answered/discussed the identity of the smoking man on the video of Ray outside the courthouse, right? Refresh my memory, JJ.

 

[BigCat]

I have a whiz bang Kindle HDX Fire 8.9".
Thank you very much for this info. I have watched videos with my Prime membership but never TV shows.. Mostly I read with mine. I'm going now to download. Really appreciate this, BigCat!

Glad I could help.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I should read more carefully. Went to Amazon and paid $1.99 to watch the Disappeared episode before reading SeekingJana's full post. I have Netflix - could have watched it for free (till 10/15).

Watching it again yields nothing new, just makes it all the more frustrating. I am sure we have asked/answered/discussed the identity of the smoking man on the video of Ray outside the courthouse, right? Refresh my memory, JJ.

I don't think we ever identified him, but I would expect that he was known to the police. I suspect it was an employee taking a cigarette break.

He didn't follow RFG into the parking lot, nor out of the parking lot.

The streets on both sides are one way, in different directions. RFG could go in either direction. Someone in a vehicle would either have to be in the lot (which is reserved), or potentially drive through the lot, or there would have to be two vehicle/drivers on each of the side streets.

That would not preclude leaving on foot from the front of the Courthouse.

 

[BigCat]

There is also a Dateline episode about RFG's disappearance. The video is still available on the NBC News website (found here: http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/45702425/#45702425)

I believe some division of NBC produces Disappeared so the Dateline episode uses a lot of the same video footage. There is, however, quite a bit of interview footage conducted exclusively for the Dateline episode: Tony Gricar, the investigating detective, a couple of local DA's. There is also an additional segment on Sandusky (btw, one of the DA's interviewed said RFG almost certainly did interview the victim. JJ, didn't you state that RFG never interviewed the victims?)

I thought it was interesting that the crime scene investigator from Cold Justice said the disappearance was well planned. Whoever did it, she said, whether RFG or someone else, was "one smart cookie." I agree. One of the reasons I think RFG walked away.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is also a Dateline episode about RFG's disappearance. The video is still available on the NBC News website (found here: http://www.nbcnews.com/video/dateline/45702425/#45702425)

I believe some division of NBC produces Disappeared so the Dateline episode uses a lot of the same video footage. There is, however, quite a bit of interview footage conducted exclusively for the Dateline episode: Tony Gricar, the investigating detective, a couple of local DA's. There is also an additional segment on Sandusky (btw, one of the DA's interviewed said RFG almost certainly did interview the victim. JJ, didn't you state that RFG never interviewed the victims?)

I thought it was interesting that the crime scene investigator from Cold Justice said the disappearance was well planned. Whoever did it, she said, whether RFG or someone else, was "one smart cookie." I agree. One of the reasons I think RFG walked away.

The one, Bob Buehner, said that any DA would; he opined that RFG would, but he had no personal knowledge of it. However, according to both Schreffler and Victim 6, RFG did not interview Victim 6. They said it under oath at the Sandusky trial. http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/sandusky_061412_ JT.pdf pp. 80-81, 20

That is one of three known things about the 1998 investigation that raises red flags.

RFG was smart enough to pull off a vanishing act. That doesn't prove that he did it, however.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Thanks for the info on Netflix's date for dropping the Disappeared series and the on-line link for Dateline's series of RFG case.

First time I have seen the Dateline stuff and found it to be a bit more detailed, at least in regards to what was done investigative wise as well as laying out the three theories of Suicide, Walkaway or Foul Play.
The information about the "Mystery Women" answered some of my questions on whether they actually did look for her and more clearly defined that a lot of "citing's" in Lewisburg may have actually been whomever it is that owned the other red Mini.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks for the info on Netflix's date for dropping the Disappeared series and the on-line link for Dateline's series of RFG case.

First time I have seen the Dateline stuff and found it to be a bit more detailed, at least in regards to what was done investigative wise as well as laying out the three theories of Suicide, Walkaway or Foul Play.
The information about the "Mystery Women" answered some of my questions on whether they actually did look for her and more clearly defined that a lot of "citing's" in Lewisburg may have actually been whomever it is that owned the other red Mini.

LE was able to rule out some on the other sightings as being the other Minis.

The Butterworth sighting was possibly one of these others.

As far as I know, the only place the Mystery Woman was spotted was in the SoS, which would preclude it being in the Mini.