PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped:

The exception would be if a person had false documentation that was good enough to get him or her out of the US without any red flags and the person went to an area of the world with little to no formal ID protocols ( A third world country).

Or he had real documentation. That possibility remains.

 

[SeekingJana]

Respectfully snipped:



Or he had real documentation. That possibility remains.

That Ray Frank Gricar departed the US using a passport issued to Ray Frank Gricar? Are you referencing the possible dual citizenship in Croatia or Serbia or dual passports ( I don't know how it works, to be honest)?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

That Ray Frank Gricar departed the US using a passport issued to Ray Frank Gricar? Are you referencing the possible dual citizenship in Croatia or Serbia or dual passports ( I don't know how it works, to be honest)?

Slovenia, but you are in the right neighborhood. Yes, RFG was eligible for dual citizenship and was familiar with someone from the area who used to successfully avoid the long arm of the law. It is possible, certainly.

 

[Trackergd]

Any way to nail down the Fenton sighting to the point where we can rule it in or out? Ideas? It seems the most credible of all the witness sightings. Wondering if we can nail down the day based on other factors. Also wondering why he would be driving a car that was not his or PF's. To me, this is the critical bit of evidence that would swing me towards a Walkaway or Foul Play.

 

[SeekingJana]

Here's a " long missing but alive" story from today's international news.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-dead-2010-living-Tuscan-nature-reserve.html

Note that he was 26 years old, a psychiatrist (according to the report but I tend to think in residency or internship at his age), was missing for over 20 years, and it seems eking out a bare bones "hermit existence".
Also mentioned is severe depression at the time he dropped out of his former life.

Once he was ID'd, he took off for parts unknown. His family is searching for him in Italy. He probably headed to a different European country the day his ID became known. He said he was leaving when finally found, and he has.

Impressions: Much younger age than Ray, at the beginning of a career (which might have been a bad fit for him) rather than months from retirement.
Already in Europe, where it is said to be very easy for a European to move among countries.
" Dropped out" of life due to depression.
No means of support except living off the land as a " hermit", so fringe lifestyle began at 26.

I don't see many parallels except that this IS a story about a long- missing man who happened to be spotted 20 years after leaving his family and life behind.
So it is still happening.

I don't think Ray dropped out of his successful career and seemingly happy life, but felt this guy's 20 year absence merited adding to our unofficial " list".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Any way to nail down the Fenton sighting to the point where we can rule it in or out? Ideas? It seems the most credible of all the witness sightings. Wondering if we can nail down the day based on other factors. Also wondering why he would be driving a car that was not his or PF's. To me, this is the critical bit of evidence that would swing me towards a Walkaway or Foul Play.

The tape from the afternoon of 4/15/05. LE has it. If RFG was clandestinely getting another car on 4/15, that would strongly point to walkaway. While not nearly as strongly, if RFG was clandestinely getting a car on 4/14, that would point to walkaway (unless someone could explain lending him his or her car). Grine was not sure of the day. I wonder if the checked the tape from 4/14, or even earlier in the day.

The car was definitely not in the precise location she said it was on 4/15.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

The tape from the afternoon of 4/15/05. LE has it. If RFG was clandestinely getting another car on 4/15, that would strongly point to walkaway. While not nearly as strongly, if RFG was clandestinely getting a car on 4/14, that would point to walkaway (unless someone could explain lending him his or her car). Grine was not sure of the day. I wonder if the checked the tape from 4/14, or even earlier in the day.

The car was definitely not in the precise location she said it was on 4/15.

JJ I have been looking at who would cover for who and thinking that PF said they found there soul mates so hooking up with another female would be out ,a case % is there , a run a way ? or walk a way not sure that would be like RG saying I don't really care just what was on his mind at that point also before what would make a man down and out money love, best friend ' blind sided at the very most I think women can change at any time they want I checked this out back in 2011 and something was different about it when I found a picture from 2005 and who took it www.centredaily.com/2015/11/09/50071797-district-judge-leslie-dutchcot.html?rh=1

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ I have been looking at who would cover for who and thinking that PF said they found there soul mates so hooking up with another female would be out ,a case % is there , a run a way ? or walk a way not sure that would be like RG saying I don't really care just what was on his mind at that point also before what would make a man down and out money love, best friend ' blind sided at the very most I think women can change at any time they want I checked this out back in 2011 and something was different about it when I found a picture from 2005 and who took it www.centredaily.com/2015/11/09/50071797-district-judge-leslie-dutchcot.html?rh=1

I did notice the photo and will note that until this recent move, she was at the firm of RFG's personal attorney. She didn't join the firm until 2006, but she was with another are firm.

However, the actual police reports indicated the woman had brown hair. She's blond.

All that said, I am considering that, if there was a helper, that helper could be an attorney.

 

[prd2bokie]

There is an article written a year ago that says he is deceased. What is up with that?

 

[SeekingJana]

I did notice the photo and will note that until this recent move, she was at the firm of RFG's personal attorney. She didn't join the firm until 2006, but she was with another are firm.

However, the actual police reports indicated the woman had brown hair. She's blond.

All that said, I am considering that, if there was a helper, that helper could be an attorney.

Just pointing out the obvious... that a lot of women change their hair color often. I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on hair length or color as we change it up a lot. .

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just pointing out the obvious... that a lot of women change their hair color often. I wouldn't put a lot of emphasis on hair length or color as we change it up a lot. .

That woulb be possible. I don't know her age, but I am guessing she would not match. I think she was in her early 30's at the time.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is an article written a year ago that says he is deceased. What is up with that?

He was declared dead by court action in July 2011.

 

[prd2bokie]

He was declared dead by court action in July 2011.

Thank you J.J.

 

[wijg]

I was going to say the same thing.

Also, below is her current picture on her linkedin profile. She's a brunette in this photo. So she has a history of coloring her hair.


As for her age, she would have been 31 or so when Gricar disappeared, but some people age better than others. I know many women around my age (29) that appear 10 years older than they really are because of years of smoking (which, if Dutchcot was a smoker, would explain another aspect of this case).

 

[snowleopard]

Off topic a bit, I was just looking at Ray's FBI missing person poster https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/ray-frank-gricar and noted aliases 'Ray Lange' and 'Ray Gray'. Does anyone know the origins of these...why would he have aliases as a DA?

 

[wijg]

Off topic a bit, I was just looking at Ray's FBI missing person poster https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/ray-frank-gricar and noted aliases 'Ray Lange' and 'Ray Gray'. Does anyone know the origins of these...why would he have aliases as a DA?

No idea about "Lange", but I know "Gray" was his ex-wife Barbara's maiden name.

Also of note, in Turkish - which Slovenian and many other slavic languages are derived from - "Gricar" loosely translates to "One that is gray".

 

[snowleopard]

Thank you wijg! Gray makes a lot of sense..... Sounds like maybe his name was transposed with Ms. Gray on a bill etc. in his past. Still wondering about Lange. Wonder if he had gf named Lange?

 

[wijg]

Thank you wijg! Gray makes a lot of sense..... Sounds like maybe his name was transposed with Ms. Gray on a bill etc. in his past. Still wondering about Lange. Wonder if he had gf named Lange?

After some quick digging, I found that "Lange" is the maiden name of Gricar's other ex-wife, Emma.

 

[EdinburghLass]

So I'm watching an old fbi files episode and who should pop up, but Ray?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

After some quick digging, I found that "Lange" is the maiden name of Gricar's other ex-wife, Emma.

Correct on both. And good research!

My understanding is that the ex-wives' surnames came up on on some credit reports from the time of their marriages. That why they were included.

I know of no evidence of RFG ever using either name.