PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[J. J. in Phila]

another car involved is a 100 percent game changer.

suicide is such a bizarre thing, I only think it's understandable in the event of horrible terminal illness...the idea that you just walk off and kill yourself..I never can wrap my head around it..and I have known people...

deep grief driving you to madness I suppose..no relief ...I guess..but still to just drive off one
sunny day and throw yourself into a river...shoot yourself, hang yourself...
leave your child..I never will get it.

Maybe not 100%, but it would eliminate suicide.

It would not rule out foul play. I can very easily see a situation where RFG got into another car and ended up dead.

 

[PaulR]

Maybe not 100%, but it would eliminate suicide.

It would not rule out foul play. I can very easily see a situation where RFG got into another car and ended up dead.

What if it was assisted suicide?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What if it was assisted suicide?

That would be foul play, as that is illegal in PA.

Good question, though.

 

[minazoe]

could he have discovered a health issue, an unmistakable symptom? something that would devour his retirement and cause hardship?

was there a suicide clause in life insurance or retirement? ( can't remember )

why not leave a note? perhaps there was a note and very strict instructions and this was never revealed to LE.

there is a huge disconnect in this story , that is just off..there are secrets. no question in my
mind about it. mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

could he have discovered a health issue, an unmistakable symptom? something that would devour his retirement and cause hardship?

was there a suicide clause in life insurance or retirement? ( can't remember )

why not leave a note? perhaps there was a note and very strict instructions and this was never revealed to LE.

there is a huge disconnect in this story , that is just off..there are secrets. no question in my
mind about it. mOO

I'm sure there are secrets.

In PA, if you kill yourself two years after buying life insurance, it pays off. I've never heard of one with a pension.

There were no known health problems.

 

[minazoe]

was ray known to see a physician? many men will not see a physician. could he have discovered he had a disease through a blood test? could he have been covering up some issues such as dementia? could there have been moments where he didn't know where he was?

could Ray have always had a plan for an event such as this?

I know men that would deal with something like this very neatly...and not just for financial reasons.

I know his work includes a great deal of stress. Sometimes cruelty is required. You could and probably do become jaded and extremely pragmatic about the facts of life.
perhaps it's no longer such a jump for him to be cruel to those he professes to love..in order to benefit them in the long run and afford them protection somehow.

I just know something was happening and he knew it...thats why he chucked his laptop.

mOO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for brevity only.

was ray known to see a physician? many men will not see a physician. could he have discovered he had a disease through a blood test? could he have been covering up some issues such as dementia? could there have been moments where he didn't know where he was?

SPS said that RFG would not even take an aspirin. PEF wanted him to see a doctor; he didn't.

So far as I have been able to determine, there were no symptoms of dementia.

 

[BlackTurboS]

another car involved is a 100 percent game changer.

suicide is such a bizarre thing, I only think it's understandable in the event of horrible terminal illness...the idea that you just walk off and kill yourself..I never can wrap my head around it..and I have known people...

deep grief driving you to madness I suppose..no relief ...I guess..but still to just drive off one
sunny day and throw yourself into a river...shoot yourself, hang yourself...
leave your child..I never will get it.

Well... I don't mean to sound rude but you are clueless when it comes to mental health and comments like these that have no place in 2019. "Only understandable in the event of horrible terminal illness". No... just no. I come from two generations of suicide, didn't see either one coming. It is often out of the control of the individual. I was fine for the first 35 years of my life and recently started dealing with hereditary depression. It sucks. Some days are good, some are bad and have no bearing on my surroundings. I have to fight it sometimes to not be down, its a brain chemical thing... something you clearly don't understand but are fortunate to not have to deal with. RFG could have absolutely knocked himself off without a word or hint, mental illness doesn't account for your kids or your money. Your mind can take over and killing yourself can become your goal. Not saying this is what RFG did but wanted to comment that severe illness is not a prerequisite for suicide.

 

[ilovewings]

Well... I don't mean to sound rude but you are clueless when it comes to mental health and comments like these that have no place in 2019. "Only understandable in the event of horrible terminal illness". No... just no. I come from two generations of suicide, didn't see either one coming. It is often out of the control of the individual. I was fine for the first 35 years of my life and recently started dealing with hereditary depression. It sucks. Some days are good, some are bad and have no bearing on my surroundings. I have to fight it sometimes to not be down, its a brain chemical thing... something you clearly don't understand but are fortunate to not have to deal with. RFG could have absolutely knocked himself off without a word or hint, mental illness doesn't account for your kids or your money. Your mind can take over and killing yourself can become your goal. Not saying this is what RFG did but wanted to comment that severe illness is not a prerequisite for suicide.

I wouldn't call her clueless: that is her opinion. Some people have a difficult time understanding how someone can just take their own life. That does not make them clueless

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would point out that there is a known genetic predisposition for suicide: Genetic Factors and Suicidal Behavior - The Neurobiological Basis of Suicide - NCBI Bookshelf It is also known that there is genetic predisposition for depression.

Suicide is a voluntary act, and many things point to RFG's disappearance to being voluntary. In addition, his brother had a history of bipolar disorder and had committed suicide.

The basic argument against suicide is the lack of a body.

 

[skoogmagoo]

I would point out that there is a known genetic predisposition for suicide: Genetic Factors and Suicidal Behavior - The Neurobiological Basis of Suicide - NCBI Bookshelf It is also known that there is genetic predisposition for depression.

Suicide is a voluntary act, and many things point to RFG's disappearance to being voluntary. In addition, his brother had a history of bipolar disorder and had committed suicide.

The basic argument against suicide is the lack of a body.

Lack of a body after nearly 15 years !

 

[Trackergd]

Sorry folks, no response from the K9 Team. I am swamped at work. When I get some time I will reach out to the PA SAR Council and see if they can give me a contact. Sometimes SAR teams go dormant or dissolve without taking down their web contact or FB pages.

 

[Trackergd]

Lack of a body after nearly 15 years !

I have one that's over 30 years old. Not all that uncommon.

 

[BlackTurboS]

I would point out that there is a known genetic predisposition for suicide: Genetic Factors and Suicidal Behavior - The Neurobiological Basis of Suicide - NCBI Bookshelf It is also known that there is genetic predisposition for depression.

Suicide is a voluntary act, and many things point to RFG's disappearance to being voluntary. In addition, his brother had a history of bipolar disorder and had committed suicide.

The basic argument against suicide is the lack of a body.

I couldn't agree more and thus I am hyper aware of the fact that I am genetically pre-disposed to depression... and given my uncle and grandfather committed suicide - the chips are stacked against me. But it does give me insight into how someone like RFG may have buried any pain inside so that his family and friends had no idea. I know first hand that it IS possible that RFG showed no signs, no letter, etc. and decided to end his life. Unlikely given the circumstances and facts of the case, but I get it if he did. To take the genetic factors one step further - I am currently studying how our ancestors experiences through the great depression, WWII, etc. and has resulted in chronic disease in our current generations (arthritis, psoriasis, auto-immune diseases, etc.). The fact that his brother was bi-polar and committed suicide does increase the odds that RFG would to the same.

 

[BlackTurboS]

I wouldn't call her clueless: that is her opinion. Some people have a difficult time understanding how someone can just take their own life. That does not make them clueless

Ummm.... no . If your understanding of mental health/suicide is that you must be terminally ill in order to commit suicide then... you are clueless when it comes to mental health. Quite simple really. That is like me saying well... I don't understand how someone can get cancer, unless they smoked and didn't eat healthy food.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I couldn't agree more and thus I am hyper aware of the fact that I am genetically pre-disposed to depression... and given my uncle and grandfather committed suicide - the chips are stacked against me. But it does give me insight into how someone like RFG may have buried any pain inside so that his family and friends had no idea. I know first hand that it IS possible that RFG showed no signs, no letter, etc. and decided to end his life. Unlikely given the circumstances and facts of the case, but I get it if he did. To take the genetic factors one step further - I am currently studying how our ancestors experiences through the great depression, WWII, etc. and has resulted in chronic disease in our current generations (arthritis, psoriasis, auto-immune diseases, etc.). The fact that his brother was bi-polar and committed suicide does increase the odds that RFG would to the same.

RFG was acting oddly in the 3-5 weeks prior to his disappearance. He was described as being unfocused, possibly agitated and sleeping more. One of the people that was at a meeting the day before he vanished said that he was there physically, but not mentally. He was mumbling answers, and staring out the window. Those are symptoms of depression.

The genetic element to suicide was long suspected, with the Hemingway family being the prime example. In 2011, the actual genetic predisposition was discovered; a genetic predisposition for depression was known for a while.

On a personal note, I do suffer from depression (and a number of other things) and the depression seems to have a genetic element, in my case; it started c. 2014. I realized what it was because of the research I had done in this case, and went to a doctor.

 

[bykerladi]

So he committed suicide but somewhere where no one would find his body?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So he committed suicide but somewhere where no one would find his body?

That is the basic problem with the suicide theory, no body after 14 years.

A body could be hidden after a murder. If RFG left voluntarily, then where would be no body.

 

[bykerladi]

I agree. I never even considered suicide. Although at this point there probably isn't much left, even bones. But the walk-away or murder always made more sense. I've always leaned toward murder myself. But MOO.

 

[Trackergd]

Actually you would be surprised at what is found around bones. Bits of clothing, jewelry including watches, leather from shoes, anything rubber, belt buckle, shoe lace eyelets, coins, etc....most of which are detectable with a good metal detector.