PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[SeekingJana]

Well, good point, that I did not think about. :blushing:

Maybe, he just forgot about the phone?



Robert W Buehner, the outgoing DA of Montour County and friend of RFG.

You don't read my posts!!:anguish:
In the past 24-48 hours or so, I have said the same thing about the county- issued cell phone being left, turned off and locked away, and the laptop being taken.
I don't think he ( or anyone else, before you say " someone else") forgot about the cell phone since it was put away, turned off, and locked in the glove compartment. Three deliberate steps which were not usual for him to take with his cell phone according to Karen Arnold.

As I have posted prior: He left ALL of the techno gadgets ( and the car) behind because they all would leave a trail. Took sunglasses, wallet, and watch.

 

[SeekingJana]

I had seen it on HLN. I had a weird feeling when I looked at the report, and where it was coming from: Bellefont .

Bellefont is no coincidence is what my gut tells me.

Edited to ask- do you mean that the news was reported by CCT in Bellefont? Why is that possibly significant other than the fact that Ray's last known address was in Bellefont?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You don't read my posts!!:anguish:
In the past 24-48 hours or so, I have said the same thing about the county- issued cell phone being left, turned off and locked away, and the laptop being taken.

I wasn't thinking about it in terms of that specific theory.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Lisa's written about 10 books now, with varying success and quite a bit of justifiable controversy with one book. The only one I own is " The Facts Of Life and Other Stories My Father Told Me", which is a sanitized bio about her early childhood and years on TV, mostly. She has written many books related to child- raising and homeschooling and some very conservative Christian books, none of which interest me at all. Then she did a series of " Mom Time" books, again, wouldn't even have checked them out of the library because her ideas about " mothering" and mine are or were so radically different.

She decided, while she was home 24/7 with 3 very young children and their very passive father, to discipline them according to Biblical principles as she interpreted them. Most of the things in her book " Creative Corrections" deal with physically " reminding" a young child of the errors of thei ways in an especially cruel way, IMO. All things she thought up.. I have often wanted to ask her if she was hurt as a young child by her parents.
There is enough about this out there on the Internet.. I didn't know her when she did what she did to her own 3 precious children, or when she wrote the book telling others how to cultivate " obedient" children.

The only things I can say in her defense is that her intent was to teach, not harm, and that the Lisa I came to know when her children were almost grown is kind, funny and generous. She lives to shop ( and eat) now that her 3 little blessings have gone to college or otherwise moved far away from Grapevine, TX.

Yes, I understand she is an advocate of homeschooling and *hotsaucing*...an interesting way to administer obedience.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Edited to ask- do you mean that the news was reported by CCT in Bellefont? Why is that possibly significant other than the fact that Ray's last known address was in Bellefont?

Yes, the HLN broadcast was directly from Bellefont. Ray's place of work, the buildings, the whole scene.
Oh, it was just my impression of it, seeing the whole place again, right where RFG had been...can't explain it. I just couldn't help asking myself, is there a connection ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And all those missed calls.

Voicemail.

If you are in 24 hour contact, why would you need voicemail.

 

[Unscripted]

I believe That DA Ray Gricar was patently aware of the inherent risk of being targeted by perpetrators that he had and would prosecute – perhaps there had been actual threats that haven’t been made known to the public. After a couple of marriages he was enjoying being somewhat free and unfettered by property and chachkas. So he took very good care of his girlfriend, put the new car in her name and maintained a joint account with his daughter. Just in case…

It would make sense that someone, seemingly harmless -- most likely a woman, contacted Ray about information on an old case (drugs, corruption, PSU). If Ray tried to direct them (her) to other law enforcement perhaps he was told that someone inside was “dirty” and that the only one that could be trusted was the DA himself. That would have caused Ray much consternation in the weeks prior to disappearance wondering which one(s) of his colleagues could be trusted… or not. This mystery woman was probably set up by Ray’s killers who wanted revenge of some sort for a past charge or incarceration.

So… Ray grabs the laptop and meets the woman with “information” (perhaps she’s sporting a “big hair” blonde wig and then removes it for a stroll inside the SoS) and she informs Ray that she’s waiting for someone with more data. Thugs then inveigle or abduct Ray and murder him at another location and then return the car to Lewisburg on Saturday and throw the keys into the river. Because all of this was pre-meditated the body disposal location is well planned and may be never be found. The woman was just a tool to create a benign sort of “honey-trap”. Perhaps she too has been murdered.

Q. What really happened to the laptop? A. The thugs take the computer from the Mini to ensure nothing linking them to the disappearance/murder is unearthed. If the killers were hired hit men from out-of-state they would have destroyed the laptop before they put the body in concrete elsewhere. Therefore, it makes sense, that the laptop was later thrown in the river (Summer, 2005) by a local, unsuspected accomplice to lend credence to the then, emerging walkaway theory. Otherwise… why not torch it?

Q. What was on the hard drive? A. Nothing really. Ray’s personal financial banking, health information, personal emails. Probably erased prior to April 15 by Ray so he could turn the laptop back into the County. Maybe the accomplice used the computer after the fact and wanted to destroy the details. Or he felt that his place would be searched imminently and tossed the computer and hard drive into the nearby river… the same place he dumped the keys.

Q. Why not take the cell phone? A. The killers reviewed it and determined that there was nothing incriminating on it (easier to peruse than a computer). And/or they were worried that even in “off mode” it could be traced.

Q. Cigarette smoke? A. The car jockey accomplice was/is a smoker. The smell of a few cigarettes on the Friday in a newish, non-smoker’s car would have dissipated by Saturday evening. He wore gloves, left a bit of ash and pocketed the butts.

I don't believe that DA Gricar disappeared of his own volition.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, the HLN broadcast was directly from Bellefont. Ray's place of work, the buildings, the whole scene.
Oh, it was just my impression of it, seeing the whole place again, right where RFG had been...can't explain it. I just couldn't help asking myself, is there a connection ?

Doesn't Sandusky live in Centre County?

I see the irony. It's all tragic, isn't it?

 

[SeekingJana]

Voicemail.

If you are in 24 hour contact, why would you need voicemail.

B/C it's standard on most modern era cell phones ( including 2004-2005 models) and calling plans?

B/C he might have the phone with him at all times but at times was unable to answer the call immediately?

Both?

 

[SeekingJana]

Yes, I understand she is an advocate of homeschooling and *hotsaucing*...an interesting way to administer obedience.

I'd say she was but is no longer a proponent of either. There are/ were compelling reasons/ consequences but it's not my story to tell.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Q. What really happened to the laptop? A. The thugs take the computer from the Mini to ensure nothing linking them to the disappearance/murder is unearthed. If the killers were hired hit men from out-of-state they would have destroyed the laptop before they put the body in concrete elsewhere. Therefore, it makes sense, that the laptop was later thrown in the river (Summer, 2005) by a local, unsuspected accomplice to lend credence to the then, emerging walkaway theory. Otherwise… why not torch it?

Why did RFG look at destroying the drive before he went to Lewisburg? How would the killers know RFG didn't copy the data someplace else? Why throw the drive and laptop in different places?

Q. Why not take the cell phone? A. The killers reviewed it and determined that there was nothing incriminating on it (easier to peruse than a computer). And/or they were worried that even in “off mode” it could be traced.

Why take the time to check? Why not just toss it?

Q. Cigarette smoke? A. The car jockey accomplice was/is a smoker. The smell of a few cigarettes on the Friday in a newish, non-smoker’s car would have dissipated by Saturday evening. He wore gloves, left a bit of ash and pocketed the butts.

In a closed environment, it could last for a while. Pocketing the butts would burn a hole in that pocket.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

B/C it's standard on most modern era cell phones ( including 2004-2005 models) and calling plans?

B/C he might have the phone with him at all times but at times was unable to answer the call immediately?

Both?

Mine doesn't.

He wasn't necessarily in 24 hour contact.

 

[SeekingJana]

Mine doesn't.

He wasn't necessarily in 24 hour contact.

LOL, I said " most" cell phones have voice mail.

Yes, I have read about the contact provisions he had for his staff on Ms. Arnold's website. My impression from her words was that he wanted to be on top of everything involving his office. I once had a staff position which speficied 24 hour call was required. I quickly determined that many " emergencies" could easily be handled in other ways when I had things to do and places to go. I wasn't a slacker, just a person who planned well. I think he did too.

 

[SeekingJana]

. Pocketing the butts would burn a hole in that pocket.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? However, to my amazement, then disgust, I had a friend for a while who was such a stickler for not throwing cig butts out the window ( you know, cop car citation risks and so forth- L.C.) that he filled up his pockets with cigarette butts every day that I was with him.

In fact, it's almost the primary reason we parted company. I thought of him as a walking "Pigpen" from Peanuts.
Point being, he never caught fire, nor did his pockets or anatomy, but IMO, he was very strange for doing this. Sometimes, I have wondered if he didn't want his DNA tested.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Doesn't Sandusky live in Centre County?

I see the irony. It's all tragic, isn't it?

Yes, it is the Central Pennsylvania Gothic Capital. It is where it all comes together. Bellefonte is only 10 miles north of State College. That is where Sandusky spent last night. Bellefonte...creepy.

 

[SeekingJana]

I hate so very much to ask this, but is anyone here checking the UID threads and other websites with updated UID reports to see if there are any remains/ circumstances when found which would possibly be a match to Ray?

Makes me so sad to think about it.. I don't think I can do it. But I do think it needs to be done. and will step up if anyone sees merit to it.
One thing- please don't say that LE has it covered, because many UID cases here have shown us that they don't. Thanks.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Hi All...will be back in a while...Steeler game is on. Have to run for a bit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, it is the Central Pennsylvania Gothic Capital. It is where it all comes together. Bellefonte is only 10 miles north of State College. That is where Sandusky spent last night. Bellefonte...creepy.

Bellefonte is the county seat and where the courthouse is located. The prison is in the surrounding township, I think, but has a Bellefonte address.

Bellefonte is actually a beautiful town with a Greek Revival Courthouse, and exquisite architecture, dating back to late Georgian. It was the home of five Governor's of the state and has a rich history dating back to Colonial times.

Considering that both of my parents were born within 30 miles of Jerry Sandusky's birthplace and that my documented ancestry has lived in neighboring Westmoreland County since from c. 1790 to 1986 (I was the last to leave), this has really shaken me. Not to mention that I'm a Penn State alum, and writing a blog about one of the people involved in the case.

It is as though I'm rapidly becoming a minor character in a Gothic novel.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I hate so very much to ask this, but is anyone here checking the UID threads and other websites with updated UID reports to see if there are any remains/ circumstances when found which would possibly be a match to Ray?

Makes me so sad to think about it.. I don't think I can do it. But I do think it needs to be done. and will step up if anyone sees merit to it.
One thing- please don't say that LE has it covered, because many UID cases here have shown us that they don't. Thanks.

Well, now that you put it that way...LOL

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Bellefonte is the county seat and where the courthouse is located. The prison is in the surrounding township, I think, but has a Bellefonte address.

Bellefonte is actually a beautiful town with a Greek Revival Courthouse, and exquisite architecture, dating back to late Georgian. It was the home of five Governor's of the state and has a rich history dating back to Colonial times.

Considering that both of my parents were born within 30 miles of Jerry Sandusky's birthplace and that my documented ancestry has lived in neighboring Westmoreland County since from c. 1790 to 1986 (I was the last to leave), this has really shaken me. Not to mention that I'm a Penn State alum, and writing a blog about one of the people involved in the case.

It is as though I'm rapidly becoming a minor character in a Gothic novel.

Good comment on Bellefont, JJ. I have been there myself a few times over the years. Bellefont is on the I-80 corridor, and one of the ways to get into State College. My travels through that area had been business related, certainly not the ties you have had there. I suppose just from knowing the feel of the place, and then seeing it splashed all over the Media, I guess I felt a bit Gothic...lol.
Anyway, thanks for your insight, and sharing a tad of yourself with us.