PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[pittsburghgirl]

1. The scent in the parking area goes nowhere.
2. The traces of cigarette ash and the residue of cigarette smoke point to someone else in contact with the car.

If someone "close to" RFG decided to kill him, it would be easy to set up a meeting in Lewisburg. RFG arrives, parks his car, gets into his "friend's" vehicle and is never seen again. I don't see anything far-fetched in that scenario.

If someone acquainted with RG wanted to kill him, he or she could make a call and arrange for an out-of-town meeting in order to keep that meeting under the radar. RG arrives, parks his car, etc.

As to why someone (not a personal friend or relative) would murder a DA, the most obvious possibilities would be to disrupt an ongoing trial, to delay or further delay a trial, or to keep something RG knew from coming to light. And of course, it is possible that RG was murdered by someone close to him--and we do not have the private and personal information to make that connection. In any case, if he was murdered (which is what I have concluded) RG trusted someone who either killed him or set him up to be killed. JMO, of course.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

1. The scent in the parking area goes nowhere.

The presence of it indicates RFG was there, especially since at least two witnesses saw him in the parking lot.

2. The traces of cigarette ash and the residue of cigarette smoke point to someone else in contact with the car.

Contact and riding in the car are two different thing.

If someone "close to" RFG decided to kill him, it would be easy to set up a meeting in Lewisburg. RFG arrives, parks his car, gets into his "friend's" vehicle and is never seen again. I don't see anything far-fetched in that scenario.

That is the "luring" scenario, a variation of "A Meeting for Murder." That one is possible, though the rest you posted are unlikely or impossible.

As to why someone (not a personal friend or relative) would murder a DA, the most obvious possibilities would be to disrupt an ongoing trial, to delay or further delay a trial, or to keep something RG knew from coming to light.

It delayed nothing more that a few weeks and there was no "ongoing trial," that RFG was prosecuting.

And of course, it is possible that RG was murdered by someone close to him--and we do not have the private and personal information to make that connection. In any case, if he was murdered (which is what I have concluded) RG trusted someone who either killed him or set him up to be killed. JMO, of course.

This is the "Short Walk to Murder" scenario, which is possible.

 

[Waupalani St.]

I noticed JKA referenced the same entry when she brought up that she was let go.

http://sites.google.com/site/gricardisappearance/gricardisappearance
"4.* Summing up:

The foregoing is the*objective portion of what I can recall about the Gricar situation from the week that he disappeared*until 9 AM on January 3, 2006, when I was called into Mr. Smith’s office by*DA Madeira, to be told that I was being discharged.*The provision relied upon was part of the same chapter of County Code as that providing replacement procedures for a missing DA."

OK...I'm not too well versed in when Maderia was elected, I'll have to research that...but it is of note that JKA mentioned that when she was discharged in 1/06, she referenced the same statute that was found in April 05. There is really no way the two occurances could be tied together, right?? It's just a lark...most likely

 

[Bellaneph]

http://sites.google.com/site/gricardisappearance/gricardisappearance
"4.* Summing up:

The foregoing is the*objective portion of what I can recall about the Gricar situation from the week that he disappeared*until 9 AM on January 3, 2006, when I was called into Mr. Smith’s office by*DA Madeira, to be told that I was being discharged.*The provision relied upon was part of the same chapter of County Code as that providing replacement procedures for a missing DA."

OK...I'm not too well versed in when Maderia was elected, I'll have to research that...but it is of note that JKA mentioned that when she was discharged in 1/06, she referenced the same statute that was found in April 05. There is really no way the two occurances could be tied together, right?? It's just a lark...most likely

I don't know the players involved in the da's office or their politics or why they would fire/lay off people, but just regarding the provision, it would seem that they became familiar with that code because of the Ray situation. Had the book not opened to those pages regarding Ray, they might have used something else with JKA. Again, I don't know the circumstances but seems more cause and effect than being the same thing - if that makes any sense.

I'm now wondering if Ray had deliberately made the book open to that page (by bending the binder or whatever) knowing they would need that statute to expedite things OR if a higher power was at work there just "opening" to the correct page to give a "sign" to people who were now scrambled without a "present" DA to let people know Ray wasn't coming back and what they needed to know to do in their current predicament.

More often than not, if you ask the "universe" a question and you flip to a page in the Bible or Big Book - or any book really - the answer to your question will be right there.....

I can also see Ray having thought about leaving people scrambling without him and, not to "play games," but because he couldn't tell anyone and feeling a bit bad about leaving everyone hanging, doing something to make the book open to that point.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://sites.google.com/site/gricardisappearance/gricardisappearance
"4.* Summing up:

The foregoing is the*objective portion of what I can recall about the Gricar situation from the week that he disappeared*until 9 AM on January 3, 2006, when I was called into Mr. Smith’s office by*DA Madeira, to be told that I was being discharged.*The provision relied upon was part of the same chapter of County Code as that providing replacement procedures for a missing DA."

OK...I'm not too well versed in when Maderia was elected, I'll have to research that...but it is of note that JKA mentioned that when she was discharged in 1/06, she referenced the same statute that was found in April 05. There is really no way the two occurances could be tied together, right?? It's just a lark...most likely

MTM was elected in 11/05 and took office in 1/06. The book was found on 4/18/05. I do not believe there is any connect. MTM was not even the nominee at that point, and was facing a potentially strong candidate in the Republican primary, Robert Bascom.

Bascom ran against RFG in 2001 and got about 45% of the vote in the Republican primary. That is a lot in a two man race for one position, in a GOP Primary, against a 16 year incumbent. Bascom dropped to 38% against MTM.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't know the players involved in the da's office or their politics or why they would fire/lay off people, but just regarding the provision, it would seem that they became familiar with that code because of the Ray situation. Had the book not opened to those pages regarding Ray, they might have used something else with JKA. Again, I don't know the circumstances but seems more cause and effect than being the same thing - if that makes any sense.

JKA won the Democratic nomination in 2005, and lost the Municipal Election to MTM in November by about 54% to 43%. The link to most Centre County election results is here: rehttp://www.co.centre.pa.us/elections/results/results.asp

I can also see Ray having thought about leaving people scrambling without him and, not to "play games," but because he couldn't tell anyone and feeling a bit bad about leaving everyone hanging, doing something to make the book open to that point.

You have to remember that on 4/18/05, a lot of people thought it was suicide, and there was a great deal of confusion in the office. Normally, the Governor appoints most "row officers," when there is a vacancy, with the consent of the State Senate, but a DA is different. If the DA resigns, dies, et c., the County Court appoints.

I have two theories:

1. Someone thought it was suicide and checked on 4/17-4/18. He/She didn't want to look ghoulish, so he/she didn't say anything.

2. Someone, possibly even MS, checked earlier in the morning, and, in the confusion, forgot.

Just leaving a book turned upside down for an hour on 4/14 wouldn't produce the "auto opening" described. The spine of the book would have to be broken, the book was left upside down for days, or someone was frequently looking at that page for months, if it was done prior to 4/17/05.

The last time RFG was in the office was 4/14/05.

 

[tiff07]

Hi all

New to this case after seeing it on pay tv. First impression: possibly walked away from his life. Look forward to catching up on the thread and reading your input.

 

[tiff07]

Questions:

Has it ever been verified that Ray met up with a woman? I'm thinking casual encounter, possibly intimate and fatal. Why did PF go to the gym at 5pm that day if there was no note from Ray to indicate they wouldn't be keeping their standing dinner date? The more I read I'm swaying between walk away and murder. Baffling. Please point me in the right direction.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Questions:

Has it ever been verified that Ray met up with a woman? I'm thinking casual encounter, possibly intimate and fatal. Why did PF go to the gym at 5pm that day if there was no note from Ray to indicate they wouldn't be keeping their standing dinner date? The more I read I'm swaying between walk away and murder. Baffling. Please point me in the right direction.

I'm not sure it was a "standing dinner date." They usually went out on Fridays, but it might have been planned each time.

PEF went to the gym when it was obvious RFG was not home and there was no note suggesting that RFG would be back and that they will go out. She normally left work at 4:30 PM and didn't leave until 5:00-5:10 PM.

 

[tiff07]

I'm not sure it was a "standing dinner date." They usually went out on Fridays, but it might have been planned each time.

PEF went to the gym when it was obvious RFG was not home and there was no note suggesting that RFG would be back and that they will go out. She normally left work at 4:30 PM and didn't leave until 5:00-5:10 PM.

Thanks J.J. :yourock:

On the show I saw I can't recall now if it was a witness account or CCTV footage of Ray and another woman walking around shops non intimately?

 

[Waupalani St.]

http://jamesrenner.wordpress.com/20...ird-connection-to-penn-state-unsolved-murder/

"Another thing I uncovered when researching Gricar’s disappearance was his connection to the out-of-print sci-fi book, 20/20 Vision by Pamela West.*Originally, the woman who wrote the book started out researching the unsolved murder of 22-year-old Betsy Aardsma, *who was stabbed once through the heart at the library at Penn State on November 28, 1969. She consulted with Gricar on the book. The author believed she had uncovered the identity of the man who did it. But Gricar told her not to publish it because the man was well regarded in the community and there was not yet enough evidence to charge him with the crime.

The 20/20 book was published in 1990. IDK when Ms. West apparently consulted with RFG....I'd like to find difinitively what documents this consultation...where was RFG before and in 1990?

Subsequent accounts detail R. Haefner as the probable murderer of Betsy Aardsma, MUCH MORE at link below. Are these circumstances 'urban legend'? The PSU Libray really have all that seedy and illicit activity going on?

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com...ws]=351&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2&cHash=2dd074a930

Coincidence that sandusky and haeffner were at PSU same time, with same proclivities back in late 60's??

 

[Bellaneph]

Well, that was an interesting read and idt it has been mentioned on here before; not that I've seen anyway.

However, the fact that the alleged murderer died in 2002 and Ray didn't disappear until 2005 leaves me to think there is no real "connection." That is, unless you are insinuating that Ray made a "habit" of NOT prosecuting cases of men involved with high profile pedophelia....

Which would, of course, lead one to suspect somehow Ray was involved in the cover up of these men which would lead to speculation about his possible involvement in other things as well. Not that no one has thought about that angle, but there isn't any evidence to support this.

It seems from reading the article you posted the link on, that the only person who knew about the murder of the girl in the library (aside from Rick) was the aunt of the person doing the reporting and it doesn't seem likely that she had any direct connection to Ray or was in any position to do harm to him. For all I know, she died too before 2005.

I do find it interesting that Ray disappeared on the same day as Betsy was murdered, but I'm not necessarily thinking this was planned by Ray. Since I don't believe in coincidences, there does seem to be something there, just only speculative on what it could be. This could be the same "universal force" as the book binding incident (or this could be Ray giving us another "clue" to help us out, but I'm doubting the later).

edit - afterthought*
The article also mentions that Rick died from a heart hemorrhage brought on by "natural" causes where his heart ruptured and bled out. Minus the stabbing factor, the Cause of Death was identical to the CoD of his (alleged?) victim, Betsy. Again, "coincidence?" This is the "universal force" I refer to; clues from the universe or from God.

 

[Bellaneph]

JJ:

Do you know if Ray filed his taxes in 2005? And if so, was in time to get the refund and cash it. Or was it an automatic thing that he had set up annually? Basically, do you know WHEN he filed if he did and how?


Also, I came across this link. The first time I've ever seen anyone speak up badly about Ray, I think. The writer is a Defense Attorney in Texas for what it's worth

http://www.dallasjustice.com/dallas...gricar-is-alive-and-well-and-the-fbi-does-too

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks J.J. :yourock:

On the show I saw I can't recall now if it was a witness account or CCTV footage of Ray and another woman walking around shops non intimately?

No CCTV footage, but at least two witnesses reported RFG with the woman. I have some doubt if he did meet a woman.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://jamesrenner.wordpress.com/20...ird-connection-to-penn-state-unsolved-murder/

"Another thing I uncovered when researching Gricar’s disappearance was his connection to the out-of-print sci-fi book, 20/20 Vision by Pamela West.*Originally, the woman who wrote the book started out researching the unsolved murder of 22-year-old Betsy Aardsma, *who was stabbed once through the heart at the library at Penn State on November 28, 1969. She consulted with Gricar on the book. The author believed she had uncovered the identity of the man who did it. But Gricar told her not to publish it because the man was well regarded in the community and there was not yet enough evidence to charge him with the crime.

The 20/20 book was published in 1990. IDK when Ms. West apparently consulted with RFG....I'd like to find difinitively what documents this consultation...where was RFG before and in 1990?

Subsequent accounts detail R. Haefner as the probable murderer of Betsy Aardsma, MUCH MORE at link below. Are these circumstances 'urban legend'? The PSU Libray really have all that seedy and illicit activity going on?

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com...ws]=351&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2&cHash=2dd074a930

You'll have to ask Littlehorn for the details on the Aardsma murder. It was in 11/1969. Yes, RFG mentioned it, along with borrowing the book, to a now retired PSP Trooper.

Haefner was not the person suspected at the time. There was a PSP professor who was thought by some to be a prime suspect; he was later cleared. The murderer in 20/20 Vision was a university professor; Haefner was never a professor.

Coincidence that sandusky and haeffner were at PSU same time, with same proclivities back in late 60's??

So were about 60,000 other people in that time frame, including, for one afternoon, a 9-10 year old me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ:

Do you know if Ray filed his taxes in 2005? And if so, was in time to get the refund and cash it. Or was it an automatic thing that he had set up annually? Basically, do you know WHEN he filed if he did and how?

I know he filed but not when or how much.

Also, I came across this link. The first time I've ever seen anyone speak up badly about Ray, I think. The writer is a Defense Attorney in Texas for what it's worth

http://www.dallasjustice.com/dallas...gricar-is-alive-and-well-and-the-fbi-does-too

I actually quoted him in a blog.

There has been a huge amount of criticism of RFG, both before and after his disappearance. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/14/2396563_not-everybody-loves-raymond.html

That RFG, then a 16 year incumbent, only got 55% in a two person Republican primary in 2001 is a good indication that he was not universally popular.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, that was an interesting read and idt it has been mentioned on here before; not that I've seen anyway.

However, the fact that the alleged murderer died in 2002 and Ray didn't disappear until 2005 leaves me to think there is no real "connection." That is, unless you are insinuating that Ray made a "habit" of NOT prosecuting cases of men involved with high profile pedophelia....

Dr. Haefner was not even suspected in 2002 or 2005. The person strongly suspected by the public died in 1970.

I do find it interesting that Ray disappeared on the same day as Betsy was murdered, but I'm not necessarily thinking this was planned by Ray.

She was murdered in November 1969. The action in the book was set on 4/15, over 25 years. We do know that RFG read the book.

In part of the plot of the book, the murderer fakes his own death.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

For what it's worth: I think it is unfair to criticize RG for the decision he made in 1998. It's easy for someone (attorney or no) to criticize him when he has disappeared and cannot speak for himself.

To my mind, it is not a coincidence that new research suggests that the Betsy Aardsma murder was connected to a pedophile; that a well-connected pedophile (Sandusky has been allowed to continue operate for years after he was caught raping--not showering--with a child in the PS football facility; that a sportscaster here in Pittsburgh, who was out in front of this case from the time of the grand jury, says that Sandusky's case is part of a pedophile ring linked to wealthy football boosters; and that there have been long-time allegations of such a sex ring operating in York County.

As you know, I have concluded that RG was murdered, and most likely murdered because he was in a position to expose some crime, corruption, or a particular criminal or criminals. Of course, people are free to "arm-chair quarterback" RG's decisions in 1998, but we do not know what he was thinking, what he knew, or what he intended to leave for the next DA. I've said before that without multiple witnesses, it would have been the word of a kid who showered with a revered coach vs. that revered coach, an icon in a community that worships football. That case would NEVER have yielded a felony conviction, but as people have reported, there are those who think the 1998 victim and that unprosecuted case is a key that corroborates the 2002 rape, supports the testimony of McQueary (who will be "put on trial" himself by the defense when he testifies) and established a pattern of behavior that gives us hope for a guilty verdict.

And our best hope is that the Atty General election generates real investigative reporting into these alleged child sex rings in central PA, as well as who has enabled them and covered them up. We might see some politicians' heads roll.

November 16, 2011 -- District Attorney Tom Kearney, of York County, PA, has asked the Federal Bureau of Investigation to investigate longstanding allegations that Corbett Administration security provider Russell Wantz, Jr. has ongoing close ties to a prostitution and pedophile ring centered in and around the York County courthouse.
Sex offender Wantz, of York County, was arrested in a Craigslist sting in December 2007, by Swatara Township police. In 2009, Wantz was granted an ARD by Dauphin County District Attorney Ed Marsico. At the time Marsico refused to investigate Wantz further.
Wantz is the owner of the Schaad Detective Agency of York. Schaad holds multi-million dollar security contracts with the administration of Gov. Tom Corbett. Schaad guards sensitive state complexes such as the PennDot headquarters in Harrisburg.

http://www.yardbird.com/DA_seeks_FBI_probe_of_Corbett_security_contractor.htm

http://newslanc.com/2012/01/09/timeline-penn-state-sandusky-corbett/

People have spent years wondering what might be big enough to get someone to murder a sitting DA. Well--$50 million plus a year in football profits, plus millions in booster and alumni donations, the career and reputations of highly ambitious politicians (who have already demonstrated a willingness to turn a blind eye to child rape to facilitate an election victory), and who knows what else if there was a full-blown investigation into the nexus of sports, pedophilia, and politics in Central PA? Not that I think that sort of investigation is going to happen, any more than there was a committed investigation into RG's disappearance and likely murder.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

For what it's worth: I think it is unfair to criticize RG for the decision he made in 1998. It's easy for someone (attorney or no) to criticize him when he has disappeared and cannot speak for himself.

I think that, in the United States, it is fundamentally wrong to say that we should not criticize a public official's decision, as it relates to the duties of his office. Historical or current, it makes no difference. If RFG had been hit by a bus on 4/15/05, I'd say the same thing.

This is further supported by the investigator's statements that there was enough to charge Sandusky in 1998. It is also supported because the AG has charged Sandusky with less direct evidence.

To my mind, it is not a coincidence that new research suggests that the Betsy Aardsma murder was connected to a pedophile; that a well-connected pedophile (Sandusky has been allowed to continue operate for years after he was caught raping--not showering--with a child in the PS football facility; that a sportscaster here in Pittsburgh, who was out in front of this case from the time of the grand jury, says that Sandusky's case is part of a pedophile ring linked to wealthy football boosters; and that there have been long-time allegations of such a sex ring operating in York County.

I would note that Dr. Haefner was not convicted of either the murder or the child molestation; he was found not guilty of the latter. Further, the recent book on her murder also noted that an unidentified boyfriend of Ms. Aardsma in MI had threatened her with a knife at one point. It might have been a stalking situation.

As you know, I have concluded that RG was murdered, and most likely murdered because he was in a position to expose some crime, corruption, or a particular criminal or criminals.

And the evidence for this conclusion is? I only try to reach conclusions where there is a lot of evidence in support.

As for the influence of money, well, it can influence many people to do many things. It seems likely that there was a culture of turning a blind eye to Sandusky in Centre County.

In the 1998 incident, we face an anomaly. RFG clearly did prosecute people involved with Penn State and the football program. One was that 2003-4 rape case, which he lost. He certainly did not prosecute only sure things. Yet, he didn't prosecute the 1998 incident, even though there were multiple witnesses to Sandusky's admission.

Further, as has been noted by people in LE, RFG did not use the investigative tools he had to further investigate, i.e. a grand jury. RFG not only chose not to prosecute, but also chose not to investigate.

Further, because of the statute of limitations continued, we can rule out a "political" reason. RFG had been planning to retire, according to him, since 2001. During those years, Sandusky was a former coach, certainly not the heir to the Throne of Paterno, and the political impact on RFG would have been nonexistent. This is true even if we believe the image propagated that RFG was "not a politician." (And for the record, I still believe that image.)

Now, I do not see a direct connection between the 1998 incident and RFG's disappearance. An indirect connection, or a similar situation, is possible.

 

[Waupalani St.]

Subsequent accounts detail R. Haefner as the probable murderer of Betsy Aardsma, MUCH MORE at link below. Are these circumstances 'urban legend'? The PSU Libray really have all that seedy and illicit activity going on?

http://www.statecollegemagazine.com...ws]=351&tx_ttnews[backPid]=2&cHash=2dd074a930



Haefner was not the person suspected at the time. There was a PSP professor who was thought by some to be a prime suspect; he was later cleared. The murderer in 20/20 Vision was a university professor; Haefner was never a professor.

So, Ms.West was supposedly advised by RFG that there wasn't enough evidence on this since cleared Prof. seems reasonable.