PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #9

[BigCat]

It was while looking at an article about Gricar that I discovered that he had met with the others who had investigated the Sandusky 1998 situation...months after the investigation was closed, and that then offensive coordinator Ganter was present as well...at the "football building"...why? To hoist a few beers and reminisce about ole Jer??? I googled dates around that time to see if someone on the team had been arrested - nothing. Then I googled the names present and found...all of you, and these threads.

You bring up an excellent point. As I see it, the reason for RFG, Schreffler, Ralston, and Ganter to meet at the Lasch Building was either

a) to discuss the Sandusky case

or

b) to discuss a player in trouble with LE

I think answer b would be even more shocking than answer a. Did RFG, Schreffler, Ralston, and Ganter regularly meet to discuss legal issues concerning the footbal team?

I just can't believe that's true. The answer must be b.

Can anyone think of another possible scenario?

Perhaps the Freeh report will reveal some answers. I assume that Ganter, as a member of upper level management at PSU, is required to speak to Freeh. Schreffler is an employee of the university, I assume, and not a part of a union. Even if he doesn't address that specific meeting, surely he'll ask them about the relationship between LE and the football coaching staff.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You bring up an excellent point. As I see it, the reason for RFG, Schreffler, Ralston, and Ganter to meet at the Lasch Building was either

a) to discuss the Sandusky case

or

b) to discuss a player in trouble with LE

I think answer b would be even more shocking than answer a. Did RFG, Schreffler, Ralston, and Ganter regularly meet to discuss legal issues concerning the footbal team?

I just can't believe that's true. The answer must be b.

Can anyone think of another possible scenario?

B?

What gets me is is that Schreffler and Ralston were from different departments. They were not Joe Friday and Bill Gannon. Just those two together point towards Sandusky. You through everybody else in the mix, and that strongly points to Sandusky.

Perhaps the Freeh report will reveal some answers. I assume that Ganter, as a member of upper level management at PSU, is required to speak to Freeh. Schreffler is an employee of the university, I assume, and not a part of a union. Even if he doesn't address that specific meeting, surely he'll ask them about the relationship between LE and the football coaching staff.

Schreffler is retired from that job and is now at Homeland Security. Someone at Homeland Security was checking Gricar sites last June.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Her most recent comments are interesting. After criticizing me for calling it exceptionally bad judgment, she said: "Would others, myself included had Ray not decided to handle the case personally, perhaps have decided to forge ahead with what was known at that time? While its impossible to say with 100% certainty without knowing what else transpired after Ray took over the case, that's quite possible."

http://www.centredaily.com/2012/07/08/3255159/legacy-protection.html#storylink=cpy

I think the Sandusky case might have had a different, and better, outcome had JKA not been removed from it.






Here is what he said: "a bitter taste in his mouth for the program, and it's coach, and that was not much of a secret." I don't think he said RFG wasn't a football fan. He did attend games, and Sloane indicated RFG took one female friend to a tailgate party.

I've really been surprised at Sloane. He was RFG's closest friend, but he's often brutally honest, like about the various women in RFG's life. He gave a whole bunch of new information.

It's like at least some of the others really don't understand how bad this ends up making RFG look. Fine, RFG made a mistake, a misjudgment, but there is no indication that it was criminal or unethical. Just say that, especially since a coverup on campus is alleged.

This is a little off topic -but here goes.

I will be totally honest here. I don't always agree with your point of view-and thats the way it should be. I have never met you, probably will never get the chance, but I totally respect you. When many who claim to have loved Mr. Gricar, his friends, his family, his close associates have walked off -you keep searching for the truth.

JKA has lost a "fan" tonite. I for one am tired of those who knew him THE best -putting those few people down who STILL care. I was so not impressed with her response.

WHY in the he$$ did he set up a sting and CATCH him in it-only to say there wasnt enough evidence. It didn't make sense then, and it makes what happened after the fact even worse knowing that monster could have been stopped in 1989. They should ALL be ashamed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is a little off topic -but here goes.

I will be totally honest here. I don't always agree with your point of view-and thats the way it should be. I have never met you, probably will never get the chance, but I totally respect you. When many who claim to have loved Mr. Gricar, his friends, his family, his close associates have walked off -you keep searching for the truth.

Some of it was circumstantial. PEF was very open, until right after the Mystery Woman story was released. His first ex-wife is still somewhat vocal. TG was absolutely fantastic until the computer searches came out; he made a famously made his own "mistakement," by saying, “To me, it looks like it absolutely knocks out the theory of foul play.” He attempted to back away from it (and he was ambushed), but a lot of damage was done. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/15/1228995/foul-play-theory-weakened.html

Some are worried about the legacy. Some see the person they thought they knew in a different light. Some are looking at this and are worried about the public reaction to walkaway. After Sandusky, they don't have to worry about that.

I do it because there is still a high, too high, chance of foul play. I would not call it the most likely reason, but I would not call it the least likely reason either.

JKA has lost a "fan" tonite. I for one am tired of those who knew him THE best -putting those few people down who STILL care. I was so not impressed with her response.

Well, that's just JKA. I looked through some of her other comments, and that is par for the course.

WHY in the he$$ did he set up a sting and CATCH him in it-only to say there wasnt enough evidence.

RFG never said that; he never gave a reason. Other people, that were not involved gave it as a reason, and probably damaged the public perception of RFG in the process.

It didn't make sense then, and it makes what happened after the fact even worse knowing that monster could have been stopped in 1989. They should ALL be ashamed.

1998. It might have been a situation where treatment was suggested.

In all fairness, on just the 1998 charges, even with B. K., a plea bargain was both possible and likely. Remember, Victim 6, to date, has never claimed actual rape. One of the great problems I have is, why was there never any additional investigation. You have two victims, and Sandusky said he showered with other boys.

Oh, and thank you for the comments.

 

[Marilynilpa]

J. J. in Phila, I have followed your posts with interest as you seem to know a great deal about this case.

I live in Pittsburgh and there was considerable coverage of RFG's disappearance. I originally felt that RFG had committed suicide. Now, post-Sandusky, I have doubts about the suicide theory.

I wonder if RFG was the type of person to "stick to his guns" no matter what. If so, then maybe he refused to play ball with the big boys re: keeping mum about Sandusky, and was silenced because of that.

I don't feel like he staged his own disappearance, but stranger things have happened.

I'd like to know what your opinion is regarding RFG. Would you mind telling us?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

J. J. in Phila, I have followed your posts with interest as you seem to know a great deal about this case.

I live in Pittsburgh and there was considerable coverage of RFG's disappearance. I originally felt that RFG had committed suicide. Now, post-Sandusky, I have doubts about the suicide theory.

Suicide has dropped since 2005, when no body was found. I was sure he had killed himself, or fell into the river and drowned.

I wonder if RFG was the type of person to "stick to his guns" no matter what. If so, then maybe he refused to play ball with the big boys re: keeping mum about Sandusky, and was silenced because of that.

Except for Sandusky, RFG was a hard hitting prosecutor. I just cited one a few pages ago, the Phillips rape case. 11 of the 12 jurors were voting "not guilty" as soon as they went into the jury room. It took the 12th juror about 3 hours to agree. It was an impossible case, but he not only tried it, he tried it personally.

There has never been any suggestion that, before RFG decided not to pursue the case, the "big boys," Culrey, Paterno, and Spanier, even knew about it.

The meeting we've been talking about occurred 4 months after the case was closed.

I'd like to know what your opinion is regarding RFG. Would you mind telling us?

Foul Play - 44%
Walkaway - 51%
Suicide - 4%
Other -1%

Walkaway has to do with some of RFG's comments, interests, actions, and one reasonably good witness sighting on 5/27/05, in Southfield. It is just one sighting that is uncorroborated by an independent witness.

 

[BigCat]

Schreffler is retired from that job and is now at Homeland Security. Someone at Homeland Security was checking Gricar sites last June.

Whoa! :what:

How did you learn that?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Whoa! :what:

How did you learn that?

Schreffler's new job was in the paper. Some Gricar sites have tracking softwear; sometimes folks post this on message boards. They picked up a DHS address. Ah, I did a blog on it. "Watching the Watchmen Watch Us."

Not related, somebody at Treasury was looking in January 2010.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Some of it was circumstantial. PEF was very open, until right after the Mystery Woman story was released. His first ex-wife is still somewhat vocal. TG was absolutely fantastic until the computer searches came out; he made a famously made his own "mistakement," by saying, “To me, it looks like it absolutely knocks out the theory of foul play.” He attempted to back away from it (and he was ambushed), but a lot of damage was done. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/15/1228995/foul-play-theory-weakened.html

Some are worried about the legacy. Some see the person they thought they knew in a different light. Some are looking at this and are worried about the public reaction to walkaway. After Sandusky, they don't have to worry about that.

I do it because there is still a high, too high, chance of foul play. I would not call it the most likely reason, but I would not call it the least likely reason either.



Well, that's just JKA. I looked through some of her other comments, and that is par for the course.



RFG never said that; he never gave a reason. Other people, that were not involved gave it as a reason, and probably damaged the public perception of RFG in the process.



1998. It might have been a situation where treatment was suggested.

In all fairness, on just the 1998 charges, even with B. K., a plea bargain was both possible and likely. Remember, Victim 6, to date, has never claimed actual rape. One of the great problems I have is, why was there never any additional investigation. You have two victims, and Sandusky said he showered with other boys.

Oh, and thank you for the comments.

YVW for the comments-truth as i see it. And oops i meant 1998-I can type -I really can. Just not for long amounts of time -lol!

I have pretty much convinced myself that Mr. Gricar made a "deal" of sorts to protect the powers that are "Penn State."

And of course you are right that Mr. Gricar didn't say that he wasn't a football fan-but I am pretty sure (sorry no link) that his nephew claimed he wasn't. Which makes little sense since they bragged about tailgating constantly. And if i remember correctly one of his nephews is a Penn State graduate.

If it is true what i have studied about monsters like 'jer -I believe victim 6. Jer wanted to see just what he could get away with-and once he did-the monster was unleashed. Noone could stop him.

I hope you are having a great day, J.J.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

YVW for the comments-truth as i see it. And oops i meant 1998-I can type -I really can. Just not for long amounts of time -lol!

Do what I do, leave words out.

I have pretty much convinced myself that Mr. Gricar made a "deal" of sorts to protect the powers that are "Penn State."

Well, if that is there, it might lead to foul play just as much as walkaway.

And of course you are right that Mr. Gricar didn't say that he wasn't a football fan-but I am pretty sure (sorry no link) that his nephew claimed he wasn't.

Well, I don't recall it. Nor do I recall any suggestion that RFG had a "bitter taste in his mouth" from the program. And, in the circumstances, what a bad analogy. I do know he would often say, it wasn't the University, but it was those "crazy football fans," that would give him grief whenever he prosecuted a player.

Which makes little sense since they bragged about tailgating constantly. And if i remember correctly one of his nephews is a Penn State graduate.

Yes, and his 1st ex-wife has worked there (Smeal Business College) since 1979-80. Prior to their divorce, he socialized with her coworkers, according to the FBI file.

If it is true what i have studied about monsters like 'jer -I believe victim 6. Jer wanted to see just what he could get away with-and once he did-the monster was unleashed. Noone could stop him.

I hope you are having a great day, J.J.

Thanks. I have a feeling my week will be getting worse. The Freeh report will be released at 9:00 AM, 7/12/12.

Last September, I wrote this poem (tongue in cheek):

Why, oh, why is it always July?
I don’t understand it, much as I try.
I just hang my head, and then I let out a sigh,
And think that if something happens, it’s always July.

There always seems to be something happening in the case in July.

 

[BigCat]

Do what I do, leave words out.
Well, I don't recall it. Nor do I recall any suggestion that RFG had a "bitter taste in his mouth" from the program. And, in the circumstances, what a bad analogy. I do know he would often say, it wasn't the University, but it was those "crazy football fans," that would give him grief whenever he prosecuted a player.

No one ever accused me of being an apologist for Penn State, yet I don't believe anyone associated with the university pressured RFG into not pressing charges. It would be stupid and unncessary. "Crazy football fans" (keep in mind that fan is short for fanatic) would have applied more than enough pressure to make any DA think twice before prosecuting a player or coach.

At my alma mater, I've seen fan anger at LE for arresting players. It is very unsettling to witness otherwise good and rational people behaving like insane zealots.

On a similiar note, I'm concerned for the well-being of Vicky Triponey if she is prominently featured in the Freeh Report. I don't think she's in physical danger. I do, however, think she'll be harassed.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Schreffler's new job was in the paper. Some Gricar sites have tracking softwear; sometimes folks post this on message boards. They picked up a DHS address. Ah, I did a blog on it. "Watching the Watchmen Watch Us."

Not related, somebody at Treasury was looking in January 2010.

Big brother is always watching!! .....

I took a CJ class about computer investigations.....people would really REALLY be surprised!

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Do what I do, leave words out.



Well, if that is there, it might lead to foul play just as much as walkaway.



Well, I don't recall it. Nor do I recall any suggestion that RFG had a "bitter taste in his mouth" from the program. And, in the circumstances, what a bad analogy. I do know he would often say, it wasn't the University, but it was those "crazy football fans," that would give him grief whenever he prosecuted a player.



Yes, and his 1st ex-wife has worked there (Smeal Business College) since 1979-80. Prior to their divorce, he socialized with her coworkers, according to the FBI file.



Thanks. I have a feeling my week will be getting worse. The Freeh report will be released at 9:00 AM, 7/12/12.

Last September, I wrote this poem (tongue in cheek):

Why, oh, why is it always July?
I don’t understand it, much as I try.
I just hang my head, and then I let out a sigh,
And think that if something happens, it’s always July.

There always seems to be something happening in the case in July.

I love the poem..but I do wonder why everything happens in July? I just have a feeling that you might be surprised at the report. It will definitely give us new insight into what was REALLY going on there...

lease:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No one ever accused me of being an apologist for Penn State, yet I don't believe anyone associated with the university pressured RFG into not pressing charges. It would be stupid and unncessary. "Crazy football fans" (keep in mind that fan is short for fanatic) would have applied more than enough pressure to make any DA think twice before prosecuting a player or coach.

There is no evidence that there was any contact with Penn State prior to RFG making the decision. There is that meeting on 10/13/98. The thing is, you have that 2003 Phillips case, which indirectly involved Paterno, and was much weaker (no witnesses, no physical evidence, some suggestion from the victim that it was consensual). Paterno was raked over the coals for letting Phillips play in a bowl game.

The case was strong, and even a few naysayers are admitting it.

I hate to think that RFG wouldn't prosecute "The Great Sandusky," but it is possible. Wimping out is not going to endear RFG to anyone. It's better than some alternatives.

I'm that rarity, an alumnus that is not a football fan.

On a similiar note, I'm concerned for the well-being of Vicky Triponey if she is prominently featured in the Freeh Report. I don't think she's in physical danger. I do, however, think she'll be harassed.

There are some people that still think Budd Dwyer is a god, so there will be a few.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I love the poem..but I do wonder why everything happens in July?

Not one of my better efforts. :floorlaugh: There is a string of bizarre developments in this case that happen in July. I have absolutely no idea why?

I just have a feeling that you might be surprised at the report. It will definitely give us new insight into what was REALLY going on there...

lease:

Hopefully a lot about Penn State and absolutely no involvement of RFG. lease:

 

[BigCat]

The below is an old article, so it may have already been posted. Just in case it wasn't, I'm posting it again.

What Did Joe Paterno Know About Jerry Sandusky In 1998? Esquire Unearths Curious New Details From Paterno’s Papers

You will find, if you dig into his archives from 1998, that he was a very busy man—he wrote in one letter that he had "committed all my free time to" and was "really stretched" by the ongoing fundraising campaign. You will find that he was a very reliable man as well. When he planned to do something, he would do it. In fact, if you look at his agenda from 1998, you'll see that he almost always kept to his schedule, and that his only cancellations fall within a very narrow window of time.

The first cancellation is on May 15, two days after police listen in on Sandusky's half-confession to the mother of a young boy. That evening, Paterno cuts short a fundraising trip to Valley Forge, then cancels a four-day-long personal vacation he had been planning to take from May 16 to 19, to his summer home in Avalon, New Jersey. He resumes his scheduled fundraising trips in June, about a week after the investigation against Sandusky is dropped. He doesn't miss any more events for the remainder of the year.

The following season, Sandusky abruptly and unexpectedly announces his retirement.

http://deadspin.com/5912516/new-details-raise-new-questions-about-what-joe-paterno-might-have-known-about-jerry-sandusky-in-1998

I wish someone would look further into that, but considering how obsessed people are with the legacy of JoePa and RFG, I'm beginning to doubt there is enough political will to officially investigate the circumstances surrounding the 98 investigation.

If they wait much longer, there might not be any person left involved to question. :frown:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The below is an old article, so it may have already been posted. Just in case it wasn't, I'm posting it again.



I wish someone would look further into that, but considering how obsessed people are with the legacy of JoePa and RFG, I'm beginning to doubt there is enough political will to officially investigate the circumstances surrounding the 98 investigation.

If they wait much longer, there might not be any person left involved to question. :frown:

I can think of a few. I'd would want to look at that 10/13/98 meeting.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

The below is an old article, so it may have already been posted. Just in case it wasn't, I'm posting it again.



I wish someone would look further into that, but considering how obsessed people are with the legacy of JoePa and RFG, I'm beginning to doubt there is enough political will to officially investigate the circumstances surrounding the 98 investigation.

If they wait much longer, there might not be any person left involved to question. :frown:

I graduate in December. I will have plenty of time on my hands ..(I will probably jinx myself from ever getting that "dream job" by saying that) --I would LOVE to do this!! ...

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Not one of my better efforts. :floorlaugh: There is a string of bizarre developments in this case that happen in July. I have absolutely no idea why?



Hopefully a lot about Penn State and absolutely no involvement of RFG. lease:

Im sure we will learn much more about ALL of them. Surely, Mr. Gricar's involvement would have been looked at ...(at least I hope so)..

Ohhh and I am sure Joe's family aren't going to be happy campers. Of course they will need "time" to read the 150 pages ..(which really means it will take time to write more BS about how he didn't know anything and how many mistakes everyone else made!)


Is it 9 am yet?---i am ready-are you?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Im sure we will learn much more about ALL of them. Surely, Mr. Gricar's involvement would have been looked at ...(at least I hope so)..

I'm not certain about the Freeh Report. People that talked to RFG were called before the grand jury.

Ohhh and I am sure Joe's family aren't going to be happy campers. Of course they will need "time" to read the 150 pages ..(which really means it will take time to write more BS about how he didn't know anything and how many mistakes everyone else made!)


Is it 9 am yet?---i am ready-are you?

Even when I should have prepared, I was not. It is one of my regrets.

In all honesty, I never thought Sandusky would be charged in regard to 1998. I thought he was showering with a bunch of children or with several children and the football team. It sounded innocent. It wasn't. I, to my great regret, ignored it.