PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[J. J. in Phila]

But what if no one wanted to investigate. What if the suspicion pointed to something with ramifications too large for anyone to want to deal with? Perhaps the easier path would be to disappear.

At this point, why has this not come out? You would have to talking about something bigger than Watergate.

 

[Betty P]

Just to be clear, district attorneys have a great deal of discretion in prosecuting. They can decline to prosecute a solid case for just about any reason. There is no evidence that RFG or these prosecutors in other counties (and I have met several) did anything illegal or unethical (in terms of the legal canon) in not prosecuting these cases.

Even if RFG had been around in 2011 and was practicing law, he would have not faced any legal or ethical problems for not prosecuting Sandusky in 1998. I have no doubt that he would have been called before the grand jury, that Sara Ganim would have been knocking at his front door, and that a CNN news crew would be on his front porch.

Right. From what we know, he would have been able to clear his name, but he would have gotten caught up in the scandal. His professional reputation probably would have been harmed just for being associated with the entire mess. It could explain why he was preparing to retire.

That said, I don't think he disappeared. The fact that the interior of his car had been thoroughly wiped clean is very suspicious. JMO, it indicates foul play and it's hard to explain away.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Right. From what we know, he would have been able to clear his name, but he would have gotten caught up in the scandal. His professional reputation probably would have been harmed just for being associated with the entire mess. It could explain why he was preparing to retire.

That said, I don't think he disappeared. The fact that the interior of his car had been thoroughly wiped clean is very suspicious. JMO, it indicates foul play and it's hard to explain away.

First, RFG announced his retirement 7 years before the scandal broke. He announced that he would retire as DA, and not practice, in 2004. In 2003, Gricar was sanctioned by a judge for basically tampering with a defense expert witness. D.A. accused of misconduct This may have been part of the reason he chose not to run.

Second, he was retired, so it would no effect on any professional activities; he would not have any. A few of the prosecutors in the scandals involving the Catholic Church were practicing, and did lose clients; in one case, it was due to things the attorney did in the 1960's.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Also, the car was not wiped clean. There were no readable fingerprints, but there was no evidence of a wipe down.

 

[Black Diamond]

That said, I don't think he disappeared. The fact that the interior of his car had been thoroughly wiped clean is very suspicious. JMO, it indicates foul play and it's hard to explain away.

Very suspicious indeed. Even the most neat freak type of person can’t drive 60 miles without leaving fingerprints all over in their car. I’m not aware of Ray being a guy that always wore gloves. If there were none of his fingerprints in the car except the water bottle then I think we can undoubtedly say that the car was wiped (and wiped thoroughly.)

The other suspicious note is the cigarette ash. Knight made the case that the ash was a lie and never happened.

If Knight is factual on these two points, then she has done a really good job moving the needle to foul play being overwhelmingly most likely. But, I’m not sure if anyone can verify the factuality of her claims.

 

[Betty P]

First, RFG announced his retirement 7 years before the scandal broke. He announced that he would retire as DA, and not practice, in 2004. In 2003, Gricar was sanctioned by a judge for basically tampering with a defense expert witness. D.A. accused of misconduct This may have been part of the reason he chose not to run.

Second, he was retired, so it would no effect on any professional activities; he would not have any. A few of the prosecutors in the scandals involving the Catholic Church were practicing, and did lose clients; in one case, it was due to things the attorney did in the 1960's.

RFG announced his retirement just a few years after he was called to investigate Sandusky. Though he wasn't able to file charges, he continued to investigate. To be fair, it could have been any other case he had investigated that prompted him to announce retirement. Whether it was the Sandusky investigation or another one, something happened to make him want to leave at age 60. His record was clean and he had said many times over the years that he didn't want to run for office.

As for the fingerprints, I find it hard to believe the only readable prints of Ray were on the label of a water bottle, but not on the surfaces he would commonly touch while driving the car every day. His girlfriend, whose prints were found on the exterior of the car, were also not found on the interior.

Something had cause the ridges to be smoothed on the other fingerprints inside the car. I'm going to check into it.

I'm really tied up today and the rest of the week, but I'll try to find time to post some links. I've almost finished listening to the Knight podcast and have subscribed to read the documents.

 

[Betty P]

This from a little over a year ago

 

[DeeperSecrets]

At this point, why has this not come out? You would have to talking about something bigger than Watergate.

Effective damage control. Focus on Sandusky as an isolated incident, wrap up the case and send him to jail and that ends the story.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RFG announced his retirement just a few years after he was called to investigate Sandusky. Though he wasn't able to file charges, he continued to investigate. To be fair, it could have been any other case he had investigated that prompted him to announce retirement. Whether it was the Sandusky investigation or another one, something happened to make him want to leave at age 60. His record was clean and he had said many times over the years that he didn't want to run for office.

As for the fingerprints, I find it hard to believe the only readable prints of Ray were on the label of a water bottle, but not on the surfaces he would commonly touch while driving the car every day. His girlfriend, whose prints were found on the exterior of the car, were also not found on the interior.

Something had cause the ridges to be smoothed on the other fingerprints inside the car. I'm going to check into it.

I'm really tied up today and the rest of the week, but I'll try to find time to post some links. I've almost finished listening to the Knight podcast and have subscribed to read the documents.

It was just about 5 1/2 years between RFG being informed of the 1998 incident and when he announced that he was planning to retire. It was more than a year between the announcement and the disappearance.

There were no "quality latent prints" in the car. That would not mean that there were no prints. The only prints that were found on the outside and that could be identified were RFG's.

I think DNA from RFG, PEF, and a clerk were found in the car, but no unknown person's DNA was found.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Effective damage control. Focus on Sandusky as an isolated incident, wrap up the case and send him to jail and that ends the story.

Except, that was no where near the end of the story. Spanier had exhausted his appeals last year. He completed his term last August.

This had massive media coverage, dozens of books written about it, and people are still talking about it.

 

[Black Diamond]

Let me put it this way. In 1998, RFG had two victims to testify. He also had Sandusky admitting to contact with the child.

In 2011, the AG's Office had one witness, and convicted Sandusky of one felony and two misdemeanor charges.

Yes, but also the AG had Sara Ganim clearing the path in 2011, whereas Ray did not have such outside influences.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, but also the AG had Sara Ganim clearing the path in 2011, whereas Ray did not have such outside influences.

How would that make a difference?

 

[Black Diamond]

How would that make a difference?

Knowing the press has the story is obviously motivation to pursue it more diligently since the public is going to become aware. Not having the press on the story would make it easier to close the investigation and forget about it. Had the victim’s mother, Screffler, or someone else made contact to a ‘98 version of a Sara Ganim, Ray would have had much more difficulty shutting down the investigation.

To clarify I believe the grand jury convened well before Ganim was on it, so her influence wouldn’t have been until well into the AG investigation. I’m not very knowledgeable on the Sandusky case and could be off base a bit on that. That said, I have read that there was more than one witness called by the prosecution in this trial, not just one.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Knowing the press has the story is obviously motivation to pursue it more diligently since the public is going to become aware. Not having the press on the story would make it easier to close the investigation and forget about it. Had the victim’s mother, Screffler, or someone else made contact to a ‘98 version of a Sara Ganim, Ray would have had much more difficulty shutting down the investigation.

To clarify I believe the grand jury convened well before Ganim was on it, so her influence wouldn’t have been until well into the AG investigation. I’m not very knowledgeable on the Sandusky case and could be off base a bit on that. That said, I have read that there was more than one witness called by the prosecution in this trial, not just one.

I would question that.

Ganim's story was there was a criminal investigation into Sandusky. I doubt if they would have run a story just based on an allegation.

You are correct on the timeline. The grand jury was convened in the summer of 2009. By the early winter of 2010, they had McQueary. Ganim's initial story came out on 3/31/11.

At about the time I started my blog, 2/09, Madeira had sent the case to the PA AG.

 

[Betty P]

Except, that was no where near the end of the story. Spanier had exhausted his appeals last year. He completed his term last August.

This had massive media coverage, dozens of books written about it, and people are still talking about it.

I didn't realize that legal activity was still ongoing WRT Sandusky's sex abuse crimes. I'll say, it's probably still big news in PA, but I think its not covered much in the news media elsewhere in the US.

Does anyone think there is possibly still more to uncover in this case? More victims? More cases of cover-ups or obstructing investigation? Interfering with witnesses and victims?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Most of it is over, but a libel suit filed by the prosecutors against former AG Kane was just dismissed.

You still have people running around trying to get the Paterno statue back up.

There could be more victims, but those may not be pursuing anything.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

Except, that was no where near the end of the story. Spanier had exhausted his appeals last year. He completed his term last August.

This had massive media coverage, dozens of books written about it, and people are still talking about it.

There are no serious, unbiased comprehensive books on this scandal, which is very telling in and of itself given how many authors are quick to jump on criminal case stories and beat them to death.

Most books on the scandal are from Paterno/Sandusky apologists or from victims (Aaron and Matt). The only neutral one I'm aware of, Game Over, was rushed out in four months and came out before the Freeh Report and Jerry's trial.

The lack on research on the case from neutral parties is remarkable.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

I didn't realize that legal activity was still ongoing WRT Sandusky's sex abuse crimes. I'll say, it's probably still big news in PA, but I think its not covered much in the news media elsewhere in the US.

Does anyone think there is possibly still more to uncover in this case? More victims? More cases of cover-ups or obstructing investigation? Interfering with witnesses and victims?

There is much more to uncover in this case. Many more victims, although many of them didn't come forward and didn't want money. Whether any of this comes to light I can't say. Probably not, but perhaps many years from now.

 

[Betty P]

There is much more to uncover in this case. Many more victims, although many of them didn't come forward and didn't want money. Whether any of this comes to light I can't say. Probably not, but perhaps many years from now.

JMO, the fact that it took nearly 13 years between the time an assault was first reported to prosecutors and a serious investigation finally began, it looks like there's a LOT we don't know about cover ups and other obstructions in the process. They've covered some of the obstruction that was done by Penn State, but AFAIK, haven't touched on anything on the side of LE and prosecution.

 

[Ann99]

There is much more to uncover in this case. Many more victims, although many of them didn't come forward and didn't want money. Whether any of this comes to light I can't say. Probably not, but perhaps many years from now.

JMO, the fact that it took nearly 13 years between the time an assault was first reported to prosecutors and a serious investigation finally began, it looks like there's a LOT we don't know about cover ups and other obstructions in the process. They've covered some of the obstruction that was done by Penn State, but AFAIK, haven't touched on anything on the side of LE and prosecution.

Ray Gricar, a Pa. district attorney, went for a drive 17 years ago. He hasn’t been seen since

Posted Three days ago but sadly behind a pay wall.