PA - Shane Montgomery, 21, Philadelphia, 27 Nov 2014 #5

[Jonesy124]

I am not knowlegdable of pings at all so I can't speak to it. Does Kildaire's also have his phone or did they toss it when they found it? If it was not foul play and he was not taking away by car I don't believe he was hanging out in the parking lot very long. Since he was stumbling, how conscious was he of his surroundings? Did he stumble down the enbankment and walk or fall in? Was there a confrontation with Kildaire's staff and to avoid walkng down Main did he walk around the fence to get the other side and try to walk the tracks home and slip in? Did he sit on the ledge to smoke or pee or just chill out try to get up and fall in? Was he beat up in the parking lot and thrown in? Was he hit by a car? Did he pee on someone's car and they got pissed and roughed him up it went too far and throw him in? Was he in a state of intoxication depressed and made and instant choice (although not a real choice if he was impaired) to jump in? Was he roofied or took a substance that made him hallucinate and gave him a command hallucination to jump in? Or did he think the water was pavement still? I think if he is in the river it happened very quickly. I am just thinking out loud and IMO. I would love to know some solid information on that parking lot. Is there alot of crime in that parking lot since there is no attendant and it's creepy? Is their known drug dealings? Do underaged hang out there in that area to drink,etc? I know there was an assault on 11/23 in front or near Kildaire's. What is the details of that? How many cars were actually parked their that night and what time did they leave? Were police officers patrolling Main Street that night? One poster posted way back that there are usually police across from Kildaire's. I don't know if this is true? I know if I go to the Brew Pub there is usually a police presence there quite a bit of it. Again just rambling and thinking out loud.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

Kevin, where the keys were found is out past that concrete ledge and fence for the water storage facility (South West end of the lot) that has the fence section for the concrete ledge bent back. I can't see him going out on that ledge in the cold and wet to go pee or text when the detailing building and that little wooden hut out behind it are better suited.

I am on the fence about Shane dropping the keys in the water when falling in or the keys being thrown in by others. I am waiting for the dive team or Detpac to find the cell phone in the water or on land. One would reason that a white cell phone case should be visible in the water or laying out in the weeds and brush.

I agree. Especially, when you've physically been there and looked at it. You have a better understanding of the set up. I highly doubt with all the places to pee, he would choose the most riskiest, dangerous act... A very narrow wall that is over the water & blocked off by a fence. In addition, a blustery cold icy snowy night.
The only way I see it happening would be on a double dog dare ya, I'll give you 1000 dollars if you climb out and pee off that wall. Remember the parking lot is lit up, granted- it is slightly darker on the left side- but the person would still be visible and would actually attract more attention to himself.

 

[takeittothebank]

[/B]



What is the purpose of the gate on the fence around that ledge?

To me, It looks like the fence has an extra piece that sticks out which is designed to block people from walking along the ledge, but it can be easily moved. Here is the picture that Alwaysonthecase posted

IMO. Going here seems to be out of the way,especially for a drunk person who would probably choose to pee somewhere easier.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

[/B]

I had asked before about this ledge, and I believe that either takeittothebank or alwaysonthecase responded to me (I'm sorry I don't have a moment now to go back and look) about the logistics of this ledge, and I thank you for responding. Possibly he was in the brush area next to the ledge and fell down that slope. I believe I remember that folks said that brush was not disturbed, but....

Also, I am still unclear about that gate on the fence by the ledge. If Shane was standing in the brush next to the gate area, could he have possibly tried to open that gate to get out of that area? Or is it inconsequential about the gate? Could he have just walked around that ledge area to the parking lot and out of Venice Island that way?

What is the purpose of the gate on the fence around that ledge?

You only had to ask twice, lol.
I believe the gate is irrelevant.
Even if he went down the river bank- it would take some effort to fall in- unless he threw himself in.
But, it's shallow towards the banks.

 

[takeittothebank]

I agree. Especially, when you've physically been there and looked at it. You have a better understanding of the set up. I highly doubt with all the places to pee, he would choose the most riskiest, dangerous act... A very narrow wall that is over the water & blocked off by a fence. In addition, a blustery cold icy snowy night.
The only way I see it happening would be on a double dog dare ya, I'll give you 1000 dollars if you climb out and pee off that wall. Remember the parking lot is lit up, granted- it is slightly darker on the left side- but the person would still be visible and would actually attract more attention to himself.

SOmeone going to that ledge in the dark by themselves doesnt seem right to me either, unless someone wanted to purposely jump into the water. If he was with someone or was dared to do it, going to that ledge would seem a little more practical.

 

[Jonesy124]

I've been following, but not posting. Let me say, I believe there was an altercation outside the bar in which Shane became a victim. I further believe his posessions went one way, while his body went another.

I think there is something here that cannot/will not be spoken about. Don't even bother asking.

My opinion only

Please give us your theory. Many thoughts have been discussed here. WE have nothing so any idea would be appreciated. Please share.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

BBM



Bar closing time on a popular holiday overnight and no doubt the paring lot held many cars that evening. That also means a significant volume of foot traffic to those cars. With the huge crowd in the area I suspect at least some cars were parked around to the detailing building / wooden hut. Even if inebriated I would expect Shane to retain his manners and not expose himself to relieve himself with foot traffic out and about (comprising of males and females). The ledge offers a bit of privacy while relieving...

I agree the parking lot was filled & busy...given more reason, this would have created unwanted attention. Yet, No one saw him.

 

[Jonesy124]

Even though I have lived here all my life and parked in that lot many times to go to a restaurant/the massage place/nail salon, I am not familiar with what sits below. One of my many theories I thought he may have walked to get a pack of cigarettes at the Wawa in Lower Merion. I had asked a friend could he have walked over there by this Blackie's bridge. Now mind you I have no idea what this is, but is there a way from that lot to make your way over to that area since he was a smoker for cigarettes. But then I asked a friend and they said that would actually lead you out on City Line Avenue? not to Lower Merion? Could Shane if he is in the river and accidental not have fallen in where his keys were found but making his way towards this Blackie's bridge?

 

[RileyRN]

SOmeone going to that ledge in the dark by themselves doesnt seem right to me either, unless someone wanted to purposely jump into the water. If he was with someone or was dared to do it, going to that ledge would seem a little more practical.

I'm just getting a very strange feeling that something happened in that brush next to the ledge where the gate is. I don't know if I feel that Shane fell in/was pushed in from that brush area or was spirited away in a car near that location. If he was going to the parking lot to meet someone for whatever purpose, a logical place would be near that brush/ ledge/fenced in area of the parking lot because it is furthest away (? correct me if I'm wrong) from the canal bridge that was used to get into the parking lot in the first place.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

I personally believe his keys were tossed in the river.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

Even though I have lived here all my life and parked in that lot many times to go to a restaurant/the massage place/nail salon, I am not familiar with what sits below. One of my many theories I thought he may have walked to get a pack of cigarettes at the Wawa in Lower Merion. I had asked a friend could he have walked over there by this Blackie's bridge. Now mind you I have no idea what this is, but is there a way from that lot to make your way over to that area since he was a smoker for cigarettes. But then I asked a friend and they said that would actually lead you out on City Line Avenue? not to Lower Merion? Could Shane if he is in the river and accidental not have fallen in where his keys were found but making his way towards this Blackie's bridge?

I can't help here, I don't know where Blackies bridge is located.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

Does anyone have an accurate amount of hours the river was searched?

 

[Snicker]

I've been following, but not posting. Let me say, I believe there was an altercation outside the bar in which Shane became a victim. I further believe his posessions went one way, while his body went another.

I think there is something here that cannot/will not be spoken about. Don't even bother asking.

My opinion only

I agree with you Trident. I've been following cases on boards like this for more than a decade and this is the first time I've seen a veil of secrecy from all sides. In most cases, if LE have very little to go on and there is a growing public interest in the case, they request and welcome input from the public, as they did in the Hannah Graham case - especially if their case load is heavy and they are working against the clock. Not always, but usually. I understand the Find Shane Montgomery facebook page was set up to support the family and that's a wonderful thing - so they discourage open discussion of the case and that is their right. The inconsistent actions of Kildares really baffle me though - offer reward money, but don't contact LE when they know they have Shane's debit card? Don't release photos from the night Shane went missing, citing broken surveillance cameras, but post photos from the prior weekend on their facebook page? More than anything, the silence of other patrons who were at Kildares that night befuddles me - no comments about seeing Shane, no comments about what Shane was doing or who he was with while at Kildares, no photos that include Shane taken that night on anyone's cellphone? Who knows, maybe LE has them and has not share that information, which is their right. Letting the public know they have received information and are following leads would at least keep public attention on the case.

Although there is a strong possibility that the scenario Kevin shared is what actually happened, why were the brush and leaves along the river's edge undisturbed? if Shane is in the river, why did the cadaver dogs not alert on the river? why were his keys found, but nothing else was? The nagging feeling I have had since the beginning of this case is that there is much more to the story that people are afraid to share. Not clear yet what that is yet. And the references to how the community would perceive the case if they thought Shane might have contributed to his disappearance also confuse me - this is a beloved child - regardless of anything he may have done in his past or that night - his is missing and must be returned to his family - that's the bottom line.

From Kevin and DetPac's comments, it sounds like LE have followed the leads they've received and come to the most likely conclusion - that Shane is in the river. I just wish those who were at or around Kildares on Thanksgiving Eve would share anything and everything they witnessed that night with LE so Shane's family can find their son. JMHO

 

[RileyRN]

Even though I have lived here all my life and parked in that lot many times to go to a restaurant/the massage place/nail salon, I am not familiar with what sits below. One of my many theories I thought he may have walked to get a pack of cigarettes at the Wawa in Lower Merion. I had asked a friend could he have walked over there by this Blackie's bridge. Now mind you I have no idea what this is, but is there a way from that lot to make your way over to that area since he was a smoker for cigarettes. But then I asked a friend and they said that would actually lead you out on City Line Avenue? not to Lower Merion? Could Shane if he is in the river and accidental not have fallen in where his keys were found but making his way towards this Blackie's bridge?

BBM.
Is it possible to walk over that Green Lane bridge into Lower Merion (ie to get cigs)? If so, is it possible to get onto the Green Lane bridge once in the parking lot at Venice Island? (is that the correct name of the bridge, by the way? The one I am referring to is the one that can be seen in photos from Venice Island). If it is possible to get onto that Bridge from Venice Island, is it possible that Shane could have gone onto that bridge and fallen in somehow?

 

[RileyRN]

I agree with you Trident. I've been following cases on boards like this for more than a decade and this is the first time I've seen a veil of secrecy from all sides. In most cases, if LE have very little to go on and there is a growing public interest in the case, they request and welcome input from the public, as they did in the Hannah Graham case - especially if their case load is heavy and they are working against the clock. Not always, but usually. I understand the Find Shane Montgomery facebook page was set up to support the family and that's a wonderful thing - so they discourage open discussion of the case and that is their right. The inconsistent actions of Kildares really baffle me though - offer reward money, but don't contact LE when they know they have Shane's debit card? Don't release photos from the night Shane went missing, citing broken surveillance cameras, but post photos from the prior weekend on their facebook page? More than anything, the silence of other patrons who were at Kildares that night befuddles me - no comments about seeing Shane, no comments about what Shane was doing or who he was with while at Kildares, no photos that include Shane taken that night on anyone's cellphone? Who knows, maybe LE has them and has not share that information, which is their right. Letting the public know they have received information and are following leads would at least keep public attention on the case.

Although there is a strong possibility that the scenario Kevin shared is what actually happened, why were the brush and leaves along the river's edge undisturbed? if Shane is in the river, why did the cadaver dogs not alert on the river? why were his keys found, but nothing else was? The nagging feeling I have had since the beginning of this case is that there is much more to the story that people are afraid to share. Not clear yet what that is yet. And the references to how the community would perceive the case if they thought Shane might have contributed to his disappearance also confuse me - this is a beloved child - regardless of anything he may have done in his past or that night - his is missing and must be returned to his family - that's the bottom line.

From Kevin and DetPac's comments, it sounds like LE have followed the leads they've received and come to the most likely conclusion - that Shane is in the river. I just wish those who were at or around Kildares on Thanksgiving Eve would share anything and everything they witnessed that night with LE so Shane's family can find their son. JMHO

BBM. Totally agree with you!

 

[Kevinc3143]

I agree. Especially, when you've physically been there and looked at it. You have a better understanding of the set up. I highly doubt with all the places to pee, he would choose the most riskiest, dangerous act... A very narrow wall that is over the water & blocked off by a fence. In addition, a blustery cold icy snowy night.
The only way I see it happening would be on a double dog dare ya, I'll give you 1000 dollars if you climb out and pee off that wall. Remember the parking lot is lit up, granted- it is slightly darker on the left side- but the person would still be visible and would actually attract more attention to himself.

He could have gone on that "ledge" which is actually a retaining wall. It used to be a Factory. When drunk you don't do rational acts. Also No one, law enforcement included knows his actual point of entry into the water. So where the keys were found doesn't mean thats where he fell in the water.

 

[Phila]

I am not knowlegdable of pings at all so I can't speak to it. Does Kildaire's also have his phone or did they toss it when they found it? If it was not foul play and he was not taking away by car I don't believe he was hanging out in the parking lot very long. Since he was stumbling, how conscious was he of his surroundings? Did he stumble down the enbankment and walk or fall in? Was there a confrontation with Kildaire's staff and to avoid walkng down Main did he walk around the fence to get the other side and try to walk the tracks home and slip in? Did he sit on the ledge to smoke or pee or just chill out try to get up and fall in? Was he beat up in the parking lot and thrown in? Was he hit by a car? Did he pee on someone's car and they got pissed and roughed him up it went too far and throw him in? Was he in a state of intoxication depressed and made and instant choice (although not a real choice if he was impaired) to jump in? Was he roofied or took a substance that made him hallucinate and gave him a command hallucination to jump in? Or did he think the water was pavement still? I think if he is in the river it happened very quickly. I am just thinking out loud and IMO. I would love to know some solid information on that parking lot. Is there alot of crime in that parking lot since there is no attendant and it's creepy? Is their known drug dealings? Do underaged hang out there in that area to drink,etc? I know there was an assault on 11/23 in front or near Kildaire's. What is the details of that? How many cars were actually parked their that night and what time did they leave? Were police officers patrolling Main Street that night? One poster posted way back that there are usually police across from Kildaire's. I don't know if this is true? I know if I go to the Brew Pub there is usually a police presence there quite a bit of it. Again just rambling and thinking out loud.

Did Kildare's find his phone?

 

[Kevinc3143]

I can't help here, I don't know where Blackies bridge is located.

Not possible as Blackie's Bridge is below where the keys were found. So in theory he would have had to drop the keys in the river then disregard them and continue to go to the bridge and just walk to that said destination.

 

[PLT]

BBM.
Is it possible to walk over that Green Lane bridge into Lower Merion (ie to get cigs)? If so, is it possible to get onto the Green Lane bridge once in the parking lot at Venice Island? (is that the correct name of the bridge, by the way? The one I am referring to is the one that can be seen in photos from Venice Island). If it is possible to get onto that Bridge from Venice Island, is it possible that Shane could have gone onto that bridge and fallen in somehow?

Question on the above possibility? How far of a walk to WaWa are we talking? Given the weather and lack of jacket - I would think he may want to meet up with his friends again then get cigarettes along the way. Would the 24-hour CVS be on his way home (I think it's on Ridge)?

I cannot stand the cold weather and if I smoked, I think I would just bum one from someone outside the bars rather than walking but others who don't mind the cold could be totally different.

I still want to know if the DJ on the 2nd floor was contacted - I can't imagine he (assuming male) wasn't spoken with already. I posted that question on Thread 4 but it was closing so may have gotten skipped. I thought that DJ could possibly confirm the last actions that occured at the bar involving his equipment. I am also curious where he parked that evening and whether he possibly could have seen Shane in the parking lot. Perhaps some tension was there for having been escorted out and the incident was brought up again leading to an altercation. Completely no basis for this line of thinking but just another possiblity that hopefully we can rule out if we knew he was cleared.

 

[Phila]

The questions that burn my mind is why didn't he text his cousins/friends after he got kicked out to meet up. If his phone was dead, I wouldn't think he would have wandered too far so he could see them coming out of the bar.
This leads me to agree with Kevin's theory that he was attempting to text when he may have fallen in.
I am not sure how to take the debit card. Kildares is being so shady, that it makes me think there was foul play and something to hide but I would think there would be witnesses.

Did anyone besides the bouncers and DJ witness him leaving around 1:50 or when the DJ was packing his stuff up? Or do we not know that info?