Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #1 - Evelyn Colon

[kitbits]

Yes, that isotope analysis is amazing, isn't it? I suppose if she was only around 20, waist-length hair means it had never been cut, so that's quite an extensive history. And to have moved that often -- migrant farm family? Gypsy/Romany?

Hm, I wonder -- might Beth have been Romany? Mediterranean, honor killing? And how's that for a segue back onto topic? :winkaway:

I've brought up the Romany idea earlier in this thread, back a page or 2...:waitasec:

And we've talked about the honour killing theory, too, recently. I think it's highly plausible that she came from a 'closed' community...

however, I have to admit that the lady of the dunes is rather similar. but I cannot help but feel that Beth knew her killer.

um...yeah...it has gone off track here a bit...oops :s

& thanks

 

[hmg]

I really don't think such a high profile case, one that's in the news fairly frequently (I found about Beth from a news story on MSN long before I started really investigating UIDs) could go so long without being solved if Beth was reported missing. I think she's a runaway, a Romany, an immigrant, a prostitute, or a family member perpetrated the crime. I could definitely be wrong but I would be absolutely flabbergasted if somehow someone reported this girl missing and a connection wasn't made in the last 30+ years.

As far as severing goes, sadly I've investigated and written about at least a dozen Does who have been dismembered, all of them have been in the Northeast since I almost exclusively work on UIDs in this region. In all but a few cases I believe the dismemberment was done out of convenience, not as a MO. I think the fact that Beth was stuffed into suitcases confirms that this was done as a way to obscure the body, make it easier to dispose of, and perhaps prevent identification. Killers who use dismemberment as an MO usually leave the bodies out and dismembered as a way to demonstrate their "handiwork" and to shock the public (think Kingsbury Ripper). The fact that it appears that whomever disposed of Beth was trying to obscure her by putting her in suitcases and attempting to throw her in a river, bellies a killer who kills for the thrill of dismemberment. Just my two cents.

 

[kitbits]

Is this case in NamUS? Is there a list of women who have been ruled out using the DNA extracted?

I worry Beth was never reported missing to being with. It seems like she was most likely killed by a boyfriend or husband, perhaps she was an immigrant and did not have any family here. The fact the killer apparently took her nose and ears throws a little wrench in the husband did it theory as that behaviour seems more ritualistic as opposed to dismembering her because he 'had' to and makes me wonder if she was not a victim of a serial killer. She could have been hitch-hiking and was picked up by the wrong guy.

Was it ever established if she had been sexually assaulted?

I don't know if she's on NamUS...

I don't know about any rule-outs either...good questions! The most comprehensive info I've found about her case is here:

http://www.pennsylvaniamissing.com/carboncountybethdoe.html

Well, when I say 'comprehensive' I just mean that it seems to have the most info out there, unless I'm missing something...which wouldn't be surprising!

I think you're right, though--I don't think she has been reported missing. She could have been an immigrant, or like I said before, part of a closed community of some sort. I was watching a prog last night about a case over here in 2001--a boy's torso was found in the River Thames in London. Well, long story short, they've pretty much decided it was ritualistic, probably performed by a 'witchdoctor' from Nigeria. When LE went to Nigeria in order to try and trace which village he might have come from, they found that the community really closed ranks. And the Nigerian community in London did as well--people didn't want to talk. The people hold their spiritual beliefs very close & really believe in the Juju, etc...it's similar to the voodoo of Haiti (they have similar roots, naturally). Anyway, the case is still cold, but LE are still investigating. They named the boy Adam...

Way OT there! but I just wanted to demonstrate that there are some very, very closed communities in our own back yards.

 

[carbuff]

I've brought up the Romany idea earlier in this thread, back a page or 2...:waitasec:

And we've talked about the honour killing theory, too, recently. I think it's highly plausible that she came from a 'closed' community...

however, I have to admit that the lady of the dunes is rather similar. but I cannot help but feel that Beth knew her killer.

um...yeah...it has gone off track here a bit...oops :s

& thanks

I was agreeing on the honor killing part. I missed the Romany suggestion earlier -- great minds think in like ruts!

I agree LOD knew her killer -- she was resting on the beach towel as if she'd been happily sunning herself. But what makes you think Beth did? I didn't see any evidence either way.

 

[gaia227]

What causes me to lean in the direction of believing Beth knew her killer is because of the way her body was disposed. I don't see why if it was a random killing the killer would put her into suitcases like her did - of course he COULD have for whatever reason - but that seems to me to indicate the killer knew Beth and was trying to dispose of her in a way so it would not lead back to him and so she could not be identified. If it was a serial killer or a random killer why would he go to the trouble to put her in the suitcases instead of just discarding her somewhere or burying her. Most of the time when there is an attempt to cover up a crime it usually indicated familiarity between the victim and perp. MOST of the time. Nothing is absolute, of course and there are exceptions to everything.
I tend to agree w/ HMG that the way she was dismembered was more about convenience.

I think the suitcases she was put in could have held the key. If forensics was more prevalent in the 70's they may have been able to track down where the suitcases where purchased, found hairs or fibers which would lead them in a direction or have found DNA of the killer on the suitcases.

 

[carbuff]

Ah, yes, that makes sense.

Another thing I thought of -- maybe cutting off ears and nose meant they thought she was a snitch? Don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong?

 

[hmg]

Ah, yes, that makes sense.

Another thing I thought of -- maybe cutting off ears and nose meant they thought she was a snitch? Don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong?

Hmmm... that's an interesting theory. I know people have definitely pondered on here and elesewhere whether or not the removal of those specific body parts was symbolic but I've never heard that theory before.

 

[kitbits]

I don't recall ever reading about a sexual assault on Beth (to answer an earlier query from Gaia, which I forgot to address) which leads me to speculate, that she wasn't. And the manner in which she was killed & disposed of also leads me to believe that she knew her killer. Plus, the killer hurled the suitcases over the bridge, but didn't linger to make sure they went into the river...almost like they pulled over, chucked them over & then drove off...it just doesn't seem very methodical at all, to me, anyway. I agree that the dismembering was for convenience. The ears & nose severing is something I would equate with honour killing, as it has been known to happen like that, but again, that's just another theory.

@ carbuff, ahhh thanks, btw...my mind is a jumbled mess, but occasionally it finds a semblance of order!

 

[Unknownlady]

http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/StoryAP/10_31_Still_Beth_Doe

 

[Unknownlady]

That is one of the reasons I have been so crazy about at least giving her Beth Doe as her name...PUBLICITY. People remember Beth Doe, they do not remember CARBON COUNTY JANE DOE. Boulder Jane Doe got lots of publicity. A book was written about BJD. Beth does not seem to get publicity. Why?

I do not think anyone is looking for her. I have searched EVERYTHING I can find on line for anyone missing this lady. Nothing. I have contacted Sylvia B. asking how she located Howard/BJD as a missing individual - I couldn't find her missing info either. The publicity brought her family into the story - and they submitted DNA for comparison and she was IDed.

I think LE does not know who to compare Beth's DNA to.

I have seen no rule-outs like for Sharon Marshall. Beth Doe's case needs more attention - that is why I am trying to get the Beth Doe name attached to her.

 

[Unknownlady]

I am not sure if I can post another crime site on here...I do not want to be banned. Can I do that?

There is some speculation that Beth's murder was MOB related. There is lots of stuff about her on another site.

Please let me know if I can post this info.

 

[gaia227]

Hi Stacey! I admire your dedication to Beth and Baby Doe. Because of you they are getting to have a voice and people are listening.

As for the other site I think it depends on what site it is. I would email a mod and get permission first just to be safe.

 

[gaia227]

Stacey - you probably know more about this case than any of us. What do you think of the possibility her death could be linked with others like the Lady of the Dunes?

 

[Unknownlady]

Can you attach a link to the Lady in the Dunes so I can look at it?

There are so many questions about BETH DOE - give me a minute to look at everything - I will get back to you all....

I am so glad there are questions about her!

 

[carbuff]

Stacey -- here's an article about the re-opened Lady in the Dunes case:

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091106/NEWS/911060325/-1/NEWS

 

[Unknownlady]

Thanks to all of you for being interested in B&B Doe. I have read everything posted here so far...

Gaia227, Luna Myst, Spurser, Kitbits, Carbuff, Trishypa, CCJD and Zaha - thanks to ALL of you for your interest in Beth Doe. You have all submitted intelligent and valuable information - our discussions have made me think and are very valuable...I am not an expert, just interested in BD like you all.

Kitbits - PA Missing offers the best synopsis of the case.
Carbuff - The snitch theory is interesting - Mafia involvement?
I am posting that other site - Hope I don't get banned...
BETH and BABY DOE - Cold Case Investigations

HGM - LOD/NE USA blog - interesting - but I do not think this is related. However, I have looked at other NE cases that have made me wonder...

Questions - can these be rulled out?:

1. Amy Billig
2. Doe 138DFNY
3. Betty Redmond

This is too much like a job. I need rest. I have so much to look at.
Thanks ALL for your interest in Beth Doe!!!!
Can we start a Beth Doe Group? Not sure how this works...

 

[kitbits]

Hi Stacey! I admire your dedication to Beth and Baby Doe. Because of you they are getting to have a voice and people are listening.

As for the other site I think it depends on what site it is. I would email a mod and get permission first just to be safe.

hi, Stacey--yes, I agree...ask one of the moderators.

I think it's great that you're doing this...you're quite right! Getting her story out there is the key. I wonder if the 2007 forensic examination yielded any additional info. I would think that it would.

 

[kitbits]

Thanks to all of you for being interested in B&B Doe. I have read everything posted here so far...

Gaia227, Luna Myst, Spurser, Kitbits, Carbuff, Trishypa, CCJD and Zaha - thanks to ALL of you for your interest in Beth Doe. You have all submitted intelligent and valuable information - our discussions have made me think and are very valuable...I am not an expert, just interested in BD like you all.

Kitbits - PA Missing offers the best synopsis of the case.
Carbuff - The snitch theory is interesting - Mafia involvement?
I am posting that other site - Hope I don't get banned...
BETH and BABY DOE - Cold Case Investigations

HGM - LOD/NE USA blog - interesting - but I do not think this is related. However, I have looked at other NE cases that have made me wonder...

Questions - can these be rulled out?:

1. Amy Billig
2. Doe 138DFNY
3. Betty Redmond

This is too much like a job. I need rest. I have so much to look at.
Thanks ALL for your interest in Beth Doe!!!!
Can we start a Beth Doe Group? Not sure how this works...

hi, Stacey--it is exhausting work...in so many ways.

As for Amy Billig & Betty Redmond, I don't know if they've been ruled out, but I really don't think it is either of them, personally. I'm quite certain that she was never reported as missing, but that's just my opinion.

A group would be good...it can be done, but I don't know the procedure. Again, ask the mods?

 

[carbuff]

Thanks to all of you for being interested in B&B Doe. I have read everything posted here so far...

Gaia227, Luna Myst, Spurser, Kitbits, Carbuff, Trishypa, CCJD and Zaha - thanks to ALL of you for your interest in Beth Doe. You have all submitted intelligent and valuable information - our discussions have made me think and are very valuable...I am not an expert, just interested in BD like you all.

Kitbits - PA Missing offers the best synopsis of the case.
Carbuff - The snitch theory is interesting - Mafia involvement?
I am posting that other site - Hope I don't get banned...
BETH and BABY DOE - Cold Case Investigations

HGM - LOD/NE USA blog - interesting - but I do not think this is related. However, I have looked at other NE cases that have made me wonder...

Questions - can these be rulled out?:

1. Amy Billig
2. Doe 138DFNY
3. Betty Redmond

This is too much like a job. I need rest. I have so much to look at.
Thanks ALL for your interest in Beth Doe!!!!
Can we start a Beth Doe Group? Not sure how this works...

I think a group would be a great idea. We could have a separate thread for things like the possible Mafia connection, which would make it easier to keep track of everything. Plus we could divide things up instead of all working on the same thing at the same time -- cover more ground that way. I assume one just mails the moderators about it. The worst that happens is, they say no.

If we could find out more about the 2007 results and so forth, maybe we could write up some articles to deliver to the local papers? I'm thinking sort of like press releases -- something more detailed than just a flier. The less work they have to do, the more likely they'll run something.

 

[ScorpRising]

I suspect the mob connection for many reasons. Unbeknownst to many, Carbon and Schuylkill Counties are great dumping grounds, for many reasons. They're centrally located among several cities. I can be to NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC in under 2 hours. I-80 wouldn't be my first choice of spots to dump, giving me the inclination that it wasn't a local OR they were extremely stupid. After going through all of the trouble to dismember and then just dump over a bridge. Whole bodies have never been found...

I'll have to see if I can find a link to the case where a marine was prosecuted without his wife's body. They know where she is, they just can't get her... nor will they ever.

I'm rambling and I'm hoping I make some sense...