Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #1 - Evelyn Colon
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ScorpRising
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I was looking for rule outs for you and found the following:
Maria Florence Anjiras
Dorothy Mildred Clitheroe
Denise Marie Sheehy
Phyllis Eleanor Berry
Teresa Alfonso
Nancy Marie O'Sullivan
I thought I read somewhere previously that Betty Redmond was ruled out but I can't remember where that was. I think she's a good fit. It's about 3ish hours from Baltimore to White Haven on 83N, 81N and 80E. Not a bad trip...
ScorpRising
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CCJD says very early in the thread that Betty's been ruled out.
carbuff
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I found this on Porchlight:
http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t26209.htm
And this in the websleuth:
Betty Irene Redmond Missing 26 Sept 1976 from Pasadena, MD - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
I stumbled across this, too -- Jane Doe for 21 years identified by brother from news story - victim of Wayne Nance - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community -- A man watching a cold cases show recognized a serial killer victim as his missing sister. It has nothing to do with either Betty or our Beth, but it should encourage us to keep going, because one of these days, somehow, somebody who knows her will see her and recognize her.
There's this in Genealogy.com: http://genforum.genealogy.com/redmond/messages/638.html . There are similar posts in all the genealogy forums. No followup to any of them.
Nothing else -- no news articles or anything.
This is another person missing from Pasadena MD at the same time as Betty -- the victim had never been reported missing at all: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502370.html
http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t26209.htm
And this in the websleuth:
Betty Irene Redmond Missing 26 Sept 1976 from Pasadena, MD - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
I stumbled across this, too -- Jane Doe for 21 years identified by brother from news story - victim of Wayne Nance - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community -- A man watching a cold cases show recognized a serial killer victim as his missing sister. It has nothing to do with either Betty or our Beth, but it should encourage us to keep going, because one of these days, somehow, somebody who knows her will see her and recognize her.
There's this in Genealogy.com: http://genforum.genealogy.com/redmond/messages/638.html . There are similar posts in all the genealogy forums. No followup to any of them.
Nothing else -- no news articles or anything.
This is another person missing from Pasadena MD at the same time as Betty -- the victim had never been reported missing at all: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502370.html
Spurser
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carbuff
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Do you know on what grounds? If it's just "we don't think Betty was pregnant," I think we ought to pursue it. It just fits too well every other way.
When I read Betty's story, I just assumed, "husband dumped the body and lied," but maybe he's telling the truth, more or less. She's been hiding the pregnancy. Maybe she's pregnant by a lover. She leaves, taking the gun (to kill herself? for defense if he catches up with her?) She leaves the car to the airport, flies off to hide in NYC. He's looking for her. He finds her finally. He's furious that she left him with the girls, enraged at her big belly.
And. We know what happened after that, or could have happened.
If this really isn't a match, I think we're looking at a very similar woman for our Beth, and a very similar unidentified body for Betty.
ScorpRising
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I didn't see what was the reason for the rule out. Several posters had asked CCJD (around page 3) what caused the rule out but I didn't see a response from her. I wonder if PSP can provide us with a rule out list. The rule outs I posted above were from 2007 but better than starting from scratch.
There's something inexplicable about Betty that makes me like her for Beth...
Laura_Bean
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I have a potential. I think it could be a good one too.
There is a case on websleuths of a girl who went missing enough before this body was found, to have gotten pregnant and been almost ready to give birth. This girl had brown hair, and brown eyes just like the body found. The faces look similar, the hairline is shown in the same place on both girls, around the same age, height, and weight. If the girl went missing BEFORE she became pregnant, and than was killed, it would explain why no one is out there searching for their pregnant friend, sister, wife, girlfriend, etc. So here we go.
There is a case on websleuths of a girl who went missing enough before this body was found, to have gotten pregnant and been almost ready to give birth. This girl had brown hair, and brown eyes just like the body found. The faces look similar, the hairline is shown in the same place on both girls, around the same age, height, and weight. If the girl went missing BEFORE she became pregnant, and than was killed, it would explain why no one is out there searching for their pregnant friend, sister, wife, girlfriend, etc. So here we go.
Laura_Bean
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The first is Sallie Margaret Reed who went missing in Feb. of 1976. The body of this other pregnant girl was found in December, 1976. This would give Sallie plenty of time to have gotten pregnant and been 8 months preg. I am wondering if Sallie met a man and went away with him willingly, got pregnant, and perhaps he decided he didn't want to be a dad or something. I don't know, but I think the first thing we need to do is find out who the dad of the baby was/is. Somehow...
ScorpRising
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The first is Sallie Margaret Reed who went missing in Feb. of 1976. The body of this other pregnant girl was found in December, 1976. This would give Sallie plenty of time to have gotten pregnant and been 8 months preg. I am wondering if Sallie met a man and went away with him willingly, got pregnant, and perhaps he decided he didn't want to be a dad or something. I don't know, but I think the first thing we need to do is find out who the dad of the baby was/is. Somehow...
Laura Bean,
Just adding the bracket so we can do the side by side...
Then a question. Being preggo adds weight to the face, I agree but would it cause the shape of the chin to be so much less pointy than Sallie's?
Laura_Bean
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That's a good question and I am honestly unsure. I think the eyes and other facial features look quite similar. One thing to remember tho, this is just a reconstruction, and we don't know how many peices there were of this poor girl. Stuffed in three suitcases, to me, means that cut her up quite a bit to stuff her in there. I wonder how accurate this reconstruction is... Just a thought......
carbuff
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The Pennsylvania Missing Persons site has all those details: http://www.pennsylvaniamissing.com/bethdoe.html
I'm not going to repeat them here because it's pretty gruesome, but yes, quite a few pieces, but basically they feel that except for the nose, the reconstruction is very accurate.
You're right that Sallie's eyes look very very similar to Beth's. Something about the eyebrows and the expression is similar, too. The timeline is good. With so little data about poor Sallie, not even a height, eliminating her just because of the chin doesn't seem like a good idea. Though it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't enough information about Sallie to even rule her out.
Is anybody contacting PSP to see if there's a ruled-out list?
ScorpRising
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I will e-mail PSP over the weekend and see what I can get.
I would do it now but... kinda don't want to do it from work.
E-mail address for Corporal Thomas McAndrew is thmcandrew@state.pa.us if someone else wants to get a jump on it before I can get to it.
carbuff
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OK, I'll do it if I get home with some time left this afternoon. I can see why you wouldn't want to do it from work. I'll post if I do.
ScorpRising
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If I don't see a post from you later I'll do it when Munch goes to bed tonight. I hear a nasty snow storm is headed this way and I imagine all of tomorrow's activites will be cancelled in our area... I went from having a h&llishly full day tomorrow to most likely not leaving the house in a matter of hours
Brains & NoBull
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Not to be crass, but three suitcases would also "lighten the load", so to speak, making it easier to dispose of the luggage from the bridge.
Like you, Laura_Bean, I believe that the reason for dismemberment was to make disposal easier.
Like you, Laura_Bean, I believe that the reason for dismemberment was to make disposal easier.
Something to consider in regard to 'rule-outs'.
When Beth Doe was exhumed in 2007, new accurate dentals were completed. Basically, for 31 years, the dentals that were available for her were incorrect. Something with the chart of the bottom teeth being reversed. Some of you may remember that I used to have her dental chart on my site, but took it off when the inaccuracies were discovered.
So any of the young ladies who were ruled out via dental comparison prior to the new charting & xrays would need to be looked at again. Pretty big task considering the time that passed before the errors were discovered.
If there's anything this case has taught me - it's patience.:smile:
When Beth Doe was exhumed in 2007, new accurate dentals were completed. Basically, for 31 years, the dentals that were available for her were incorrect. Something with the chart of the bottom teeth being reversed. Some of you may remember that I used to have her dental chart on my site, but took it off when the inaccuracies were discovered.
So any of the young ladies who were ruled out via dental comparison prior to the new charting & xrays would need to be looked at again. Pretty big task considering the time that passed before the errors were discovered.
If there's anything this case has taught me - it's patience.:smile:
imamaze
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Originally posted by hmg, moved here for discussion
Beth Doe, murdered in White Haven, Pennsylvania
On December 20, 1976 a brown hair, brown eyed pregnant woman between the age of 16 and 22 was found brutally murdered in White Haven, Pennsylvania. Her body had been put into three suitcases and tossed over the side of an overpass on Interstate 80 westbound. The woman had been shot and strangled. Her identity and the identity of her killer or killers is still unknown. Overtime, she has become known as Carbon County Jane Doe or Pennsylvania Beth Doe.
Beth Doe, murdered in White Haven, Pennsylvania
On December 20, 1976 a brown hair, brown eyed pregnant woman between the age of 16 and 22 was found brutally murdered in White Haven, Pennsylvania. Her body had been put into three suitcases and tossed over the side of an overpass on Interstate 80 westbound. The woman had been shot and strangled. Her identity and the identity of her killer or killers is still unknown. Overtime, she has become known as Carbon County Jane Doe or Pennsylvania Beth Doe.
imamaze
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Posted by: Soulmagent
The Doe Network:Case File 933DFMD
Betty Irene Redmond
Missing since September 26, 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland.
Classification: Involuntary
The Doe Network:Case File 933DFMD
Betty Irene Redmond
Missing since September 26, 1976 from Pasadena, Anne Arundel County, Maryland.
Classification: Involuntary
imamaze
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Posted by: carbuff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
The news paper found with this body is dated the exact day this woman was reported missing in maryland.The age is off by 3 years the height by an inch and the hair seems to match. I just glanced so I may have missed other facts. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
I had noticed that too -- and Betty looks a whole heck of a lot like Beth Doe's sketch. But there's no mention of Betty being pregnant, and by September 26, she'd have been six months along. And where was she for three months? The tale of missing wife, husband finds car, etc, usually means body dumped somewhere between house and car location, not a gap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulmagent View Post
The news paper found with this body is dated the exact day this woman was reported missing in maryland.The age is off by 3 years the height by an inch and the hair seems to match. I just glanced so I may have missed other facts. http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/933dfmd.html
I had noticed that too -- and Betty looks a whole heck of a lot like Beth Doe's sketch. But there's no mention of Betty being pregnant, and by September 26, she'd have been six months along. And where was she for three months? The tale of missing wife, husband finds car, etc, usually means body dumped somewhere between house and car location, not a gap.
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