Pageant Kids: A Rant

[wenchie]

Glitzy costumes, makeup, little girls "shaking their biscuits"

Excuse me. I thought you were talking about "dance", as in.........dance - which is a classical discipline that will be an asset your entire life.

 

[openminded1]

Excuse me. I thought you were talking about "dance", as in.........dance - which is a classical discipline that will be an asset your entire life.

Yes dance as in tap, ballet, jazz (or at least that is what my daughter takes). Granted the ballet costumes are not as flashy as some of the jazz and tap ones.

 

[wenchie]

Yes dance as in tap, ballet, jazz (or at least that is what my daughter takes). Granted the ballet costumes are not as flashy as some of the jazz and tap ones.

There is no comparison Dance is a discipline, like piano or violin. The children have to learn & practice the steps and then the routine. Everyone is involved and all work together.

In fact, a recital is actually just for the family - to see where their money is going and that the child is actually learning something. At least....that's what the original idea was.

When I was a kid (admittedly, a long time ago), we worked all year to get in that one recital.

Those pageants aren't recitals....nor are they talent shows. They are about (IMO) teaching kids a vaccuous, shallow set of values about themselves, other people, and what life is all about.

 

[Texana]

Again, depends on the dance studio. Some are glitzy and use more sexy moves. Some are more classical ballet and emphasize discipline. There are stage parents in both kinds.

My youngest daughter insisted on dresses until the end of kindergarten. She hasn't worn one to school since--except for picture day, when I insisted.

I think a lot of the things about JonBenet were more typically Southern, and middle class/wanna be upper middle class, then they were uniquely JonBenet.

Fancy dress on the first day of school? Absolutely. Knowing more song and dance routines than reading? Yep. Cheerleaders get the same recognition, and it starts early. My older daughter has a peer who's as she says, "Dumb as rocks" but can cheer, dance, and memorize songs beautifully. We all have our gifts.

I was kind of bummed the little Texanas did not have gifts in molecular biology and quantum physics, but I'm dealing with it.

Day of the week panties? They like them. Go figure.

My Twinn dolls? Right up there with Bratz, Barbie, and American Girl, and Polly Pockets...and so on.

JonBenet did not come across to me as the brightest child, or the most mature, but she was not developmentally delayed or on the immature side. When I really think about her as a little girl--I feel sick and sad. I think all of us here feel the same way.

 

[wenchie]

How old are your kids, that you've decided they don't have talent in molecular biology or quantum physics?

 

[openminded1]

There is no comparison Dance is a discipline, like piano or violin. The children have to learn & practice the steps and then the routine. Everyone is involved and all work together.

In fact, a recital is actually just for the family - to see where their money is going and that the child is actually learning something. At least....that's what the original idea was.

When I was a kid (admittedly, a long time ago), we worked all year to get in that one recital.

Those pageants aren't recitals....nor are they talent shows. They are about (IMO) teaching kids a vaccuous, shallow set of values about themselves, other people, and what life is all about.

Actually our girls perform *a lot*. My daughter goes back this week and has 2 weeks to learn a routine to perform at a fall festival. Usually when they do fesitcals and fairs, nursing homes and such there are no costumes. We just dress the girls alike- jean shorts and red shirts for example and minimal makeup- about the same amount they would wear for a play just so their features stand out a bit (makeup is also optional even at recital but 99% of the parents put it on). The recitals are a big deal and not just for family. There are 4 shows held- a morning, afternoon, late afternoon, and evening show, and they are all free and open to the public. The auditorium was packed for all 4 shows.

I have not had experience with anyone in pageants that didn't have talent and interview portions, so I don't know about the pageants just judged on looks at all.

 

[wenchie]

What kind of an interview could a four year old kid do?

I guess there's still a lot of regional thinking left in this country, because I see the whole pageant thing as just unhealthy and......weird.

I also think it could make it hard for the pageant kid to be accepted by and fit in with their peer group in school.

When Jonbenet got a little older (if only she'd had the chance to!), I think the whole display of trophis, gowns and tiaras would have turned off a lot of the other little kids (no one likes a "show off", which is what Patsy was training her to be), as well as the other kid's parents.

 

[openminded1]

What kind of an interview could a four year old kid do?

I guess there's still a lot of regional thinking left in this country, because I see the whole pageant thing as just unhealthy and......weird.

I also think it could make it hard for the pageant kid to be accepted by and fit in with their peer group in school.

When Jonbenet got a little older (if only she'd had the chance to!), I think the whole display of trophis, gowns and tiaras would have turned off a lot of the other little kids (no one likes a "show off", which is what Patsy was training her to be), as well as the other kid's parents.

You would be very surprised what some 4 year olds can do!!! Even a typical 4 year old should be able to talk about what she wants to be when she grows up, what her favorite foods are, talk about a vacation she has been on, what she admires about her mom.

I seriously doubt JonBenet would be wearing her banners and crowns to school to show them off.

I don't know that it's regional. There are "Little Miss" pageants all over the country.

 

[wenchie]

You would be very surprised what some 4 year olds can do!!! Even a typical 4 year old should be able to talk about what she wants to be when she grows up, what her favorite foods are, talk about a vacation she has been on, what she admires about her mom.

I seriously doubt JonBenet would be wearing her banners and crowns to school to show them off.

I don't know that it's regional. There are "Little Miss" pageants all over the country.

Her mother had her pageant stuff displayed in the house. It was part of the decorations. That stuff turns most people off - whether they are a child or adult.

Did you hear what Patsy kept in her curio cabinet? No Roseville for her.....it was filled with the kid's first shoes, her and John's first shoes, baby teeth, baby clothes, John's baby rattle, etc.

In other words.....the things that most people fold lovingly away in a trunk. Things that are interesting only to the family.

Patsy had a need to display, display, display.

She displayed everything (and of course, I think her piece de resistance was the display she made of her daughter in that basement room after she killed her).

 

[openminded1]

Her mother had her pageant stuff displayed in the house. It was part of the decorations. That stuff turns most people off - whether they are a child or adult.

Did you hear what Patsy kept in her curio cabinet? No Roseville for her.....it was filled with the kid's first shoes, her and John's first shoes, baby teeth, baby clothes, John's baby rattle, etc.

In other words.....the things that most people fold lovingly away in a trunk. Things that are interesting only to the family.

Patsy had a need to display, display, display.

She displayed everything (and of course, I think her piece de resistance was the display she made of her daughter in that basement room after she killed her).

My daughter has never done pageants, but has won many contests and other awards. I have all her stuff hanging on the wall right in front of me. The rest of the walls in this room are covered with my daughter's artwork and the giant periodic table she's making. The ceiling is full of mobiles she has made. None of my friends have ever been turned off by it, but instead are very interested in what dd has been up to lately. My MIL has her and my FIL's baby shoes in a cabinet beside baby pictures of both of them. I don't see anything wierd about that. I would rather have things in my home that are about my family then things I buy just to fit the picture of the status quo.

ETA: There is enough evidence to suspect the Ramsey family could have been involved in this crime without being critical of the personal lifestyle and home decorating choices of other people.

 

[wenchie]

All kids get awards and all (or most) parents hang their kid's artwork, etc.

That's just not the same as displaying pageant gowns and tiaras and pageant trophies. Jonbenet didn't have a shelf for her trophies - every artifact that she had worn was displayed as if it was a Jonbenet pageant museum. Patsy's perspective on the pageant thing definitely wasn't "just a few Sunday afternoons" as she said. She was grooming her daughter to be a little clone of herself - with all the vanity, denial, and shallow thinking that went along with it.



You don't think it's weird and show-offy. I do. No sense arguing about it.

 

[openminded1]

All kids get awards and all (or most) parents hang their kid's artwork, etc.

That just not the same as displaying pageant gowns and tiaras and pageant trophies. Jonbenet didn't have a shelf for her trophies - every artifact that she had worn was displayed as if it was a Jonbenet pageant museum. Patsy's perspective on the pageant thing definitely wasn't "just a few Sunday afternoons" as she said. She was grooming her daughter to be a little clone of herself - with all the vanity, denial, and shallow thinking that went along with it.



You don't think it's weird and show-offy. I do. No sense arguing about it.

I do think having a mini museum is wierd- JMHO though. I got a different picture from what you described before I was thinking more like trophies, crowns, and banners that had been won.

 

[wenchie]

I do think having a mini museum is wierd- JMHO though. I got a different picture from what you described before I was thinking more like trophies, crowns, and banners that had been won.

And don't you think that as Jonbenet got a little older and started having more friends in and out of the house - that the kids would have laughed about it behind her back (for it being so pretentious)?

When I was a kid, that's the way it would have been. When my daughter was a kid, too.

No matter how much they dress it up, a pageant is just a bunch of little kids prancing around for the judges. How long could a five year old have been studying dance, after all? From what I read, Jonbenet was not even taking formal dance classes - just learning "routines".

It amazes me that an adult woman would take the thing so seriously. It just sounds like a bunch of silliness, IMO.

 

[Lauren]

I can't keep track of all the stuff my kids brought home. They get awards for not being late or absent. How the heck can I keep up with that? Aren't they suppose to not be late or absent or misbehave? What do they want a cookie? I have enough clutter with just laundry. When my kids are gone I will rethink it. I just kinda (shhh) glad all those drawings are off my fridge. Sheesh. Couldn't even open those doors after so many. I know they are precious but when you are knee deep, it loses its charm after about the 100th photo. Although I still do the Xmas tree with the stuff that the kids made. I can't let go of that. I think my son thinks I have all his stuff organized in a book somewhere. I can't even get to the albums, I need to do it before I forget who is who!!!


Boy, I bet I get mom of the year! LOL:doh:

 

[chiefs_fan_4life]

Hi wenchie. I'm a fence sitter on this case, always have been. I respect your posts and am not trying to disprove anything you say, because you've apparently studied this case and are very knowledgeable about it. I do want to point out that I believe you are incorrect in saying that JonBenet didn't have a shelf displaying her trophies in her room. I recall seeing a picture of what I believe to be her room with several trophies along with board games and other items, but mostly trophies. Let me know if you think that isn't her room, but I 'think' it is. Anyway, continue on...I'll continue stradling the fence post.

 

[wenchie]

Hi wenchie. I'm a fence sitter on this case, always have been. I respect your posts and am not trying to disprove anything you say, because you've apparently studied this case and are very knowledgeable about it. I do want to point out that I believe you are incorrect in saying that JonBenet didn't have a shelf displaying her trophies in her room. I recall seeing a picture of what I believe to be her room with several trophies along with board games and other items, but mostly trophies. Let me know if you think that isn't her room, but I 'think' it is. Anyway, continue on...I'll continue stradling the fence post.

I'm tired. What I meant to say was that Jonbenet didn't have JUST a shelf of trophies. Patsy displayed the pageant gowns, etc.

To me, that's like having a case full of Horse Show ribbons, but then making a vignette out of your riding habit, crop and boots as if they were sacred objects.

When Jonbenet got a little older, I think she would have been highly embarrassed by that stuff - if her mother hadn't brainwashed her into her way of thinking by then.

I think I'm just getting grouchy. I'm weary of the farce called "The John Mark Karr Show" that is being paraded for us 24/7. There's no evidence, three different witnesses have said that he was with his family that Christmas, he has the facts of the case all wrong, and he's just a nut.

The media and the DA should just fold up the circus tent and go home.

 

[openminded1]

And don't you think that as Jonbenet got a little older and started having more friends in and out of the house - that the kids would have laughed about it behind her back (for it being so pretentious)?

When I was a kid, that's the way it would have been. When my daughter was a kid, too.

No matter how much they dress it up, a pageant is just a bunch of little kids prancing around for the judges. How long could a five year old have been studying dance, after all? From what I read, Jonbenet was not even taking formal dance classes - just learning "routines".

It amazes me that an adult woman would take the thing so seriously. It just sounds like a bunch of silliness, IMO.

I wouldn't want the kind of friends who would laugh at me behind my back. I don't know anyone who would.

There are 5 year olds who are very talented dancers and have been taking dance since the age of 2- and I'm not talking about the baby fun time classes either.

And you are right, pageants are about little kids prancing around, and doing cutsie little talent numnbers. While it isn't for me and my family, and it may not be for you, that doesn't make it right to pre-judge all of the children who choose this as an activity.

 

[wenchie]

I'm not pre-judging the kids, I'm judging the parents who take this stuff so seriously and who plan on having their kid be "a star".

I don't see any of it as being wholesome.

 

[wenchie]

And I've never seen a five year old who was actually a good dancer. Potentially, sure - but good in an objective way? Nahhh.....

Not since Shirley Temple, anyway.


P.S. I think that any teacher who'll tell you they'll give your kid "serious" dance lessons at the age of two is a shyster who just wants your money.

The kids have neither the coodination or the attention span at that age. The can start to learn the rudiments, but that's about it.

 

[openminded1]

I'm not pre-judging the kids, I'm judging the parents who take this stuff so seriously and who plan on having their kid be "a star".

I don't see any of it as being wholesome.

Yes, but I would lump those kinds of parents in with the same kind who overdo sports, or dance, or gymnastics. Some of the chess parents I meet are doozies too. They seem to be everywhere, and their kids never seem to be the ones who win, oddly enough.