!!!!!!!!!! Patsy did it!!!!!!!!

[IrishMist]

I agree!!

I'm a fence sitter though. I do not know enough information, to say who did this. I need to read, read, read!

That's funny, Lilpony! I'm a fence sitter because of TOO MUCH information!!

The more I read, the more I can't make up my mind!!

 

[IrishMist]

Then she would have been busted for sure. Her husband may have woken up, there would have been footprints in the snow, the neighbors might have seen or heard the car leaving, evidence or cadaver scent could have been left in the car, and LE could have felt the hood of the car and known it had been driven lately.

Besides that.......I don't think that even Patsy could have dumped her daughter in a shallow grave or at the side of the road somewhere. Her actions with the staging (Jonbenet's favorite blanket, the heart in her hand) show that she had affection for her daughter (it just wasn't as strong as her temper was, IMO).

If RDI, then I agree with this, Wenchie. Well said.

 

[wenchie]

If RDI, then I agree with this, Wenchie. Well said.

Thanks

 

[Texana]

That's funny, Lilpony! I'm a fence sitter because of TOO MUCH information!!

The more I read, the more I can't make up my mind!!

Me, too. I annoy even myself with being on the fence. But there I sit. :truce:

 

[NewMom2003]

These are the letter comparisons from http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf that really jumped out at me. Again, these are JUST the letter comparisons that jumped out at me... there is plenty more in the .pdf document to convince anyone who is unbiased to believe that Patsy did indeed write the ransom note. The letters on the left are from the ransom note, and the letters on the right are from PR's handwriting samples of the ransom note...

A letter "e"...

Another letter "e"...

A letter "f"...

Another letter "f"...

A letter "i"...

A letter "n"...

A letter "p"...

The much discussed letter "q"...

A letter "r"...

A letter "s"...

A letter "t" (circled)...

Side by side comparison of those circled letters...

Another letter "t"...

Yet another letter "t"...

A letter "u"...

Another letter "u"...

A letter "v"...

A letter "y"...

Another letter "y"...

A letter "z" (circled)...

Side by side comparison of those circled letters...

Anyone who truly believes that the yearbook sample of Karr's handwriting 20 years ago more closely resembles the writing in the ransom note than Patsy's writing is clearly deluded.

OMG, I've never seen an actual comparison of her handwriting to the RN, just heard about it. This is pretty unmistakable though (I'm a fence sitter)

 

[TexMex]

Then she would have been busted for sure. Her husband may have woken up, there would have been footprints in the snow, the neighbors might have seen or heard the car leaving, evidence or cadaver scent could have been left in the car, and LE could have felt the hood of the car and known it had been driven lately.

Besides that.......I don't think that even Patsy could have dumped her daughter in a shallow grave or at the side of the road somewhere. Her actions with the staging (Jonbenet's favorite blanket, the heart in her hand) show that she had affection for her daughter (it just wasn't as strong as her temper was, IMO).

Thanks for your reply wenchie...good points

IMO there's no way a lady having beaten cancer is going to kill her daughter 'cause she wet the bed.....cancer puts life into perspective very quickly. People figure out what is really important and what is not...bedwetting is not. I know families who have gone through it and they are just glad to have one more day...their family, their kids..

JMO

 

[Juliet10]

Why didn't patsy and john just claim that the big bash in her head was an accident? Writing a note, staging a kidnapping, torture and sexual assault was just about the most riskiest thing they could do. They could've staged it in many ways that would've been much easier. The girl could've fallen down the stairs and bashed her head into a sharp piece of furniture or something. Maybe bouncing on her bed and hit the end of her dresser. That is exactly what many abusive parents do. They say it was an accident. Many parents that abuse their kids get away with it because it's hard to prove that it didn't happen that way. The parents could say they didn't see the accident they just found her injured that way they wouldn' have to get tripped up by their questions. The kid slipped in the bathtub and hit her head on the faucet or whatever. Nobody would've questioned it especially considering it was christmas and the prominent parents involved and it probably would've been swept under the rug just like many suicides are not investigated very thouroughly. By staging an elaborate scene like this they were welcoming an extensive investigation, the FBI that would go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

They could've staged an aisenburg type scenario where the kid is kidnapped from the home. They could've gotten rid of the body and waited until the next night and morning. Nobody would've known she was dead and gone the day before.

I thought most of all the top forensic experts claim the strangulation came before the bash on the head anyway.

I also don't believe Patsy could've done that blow to the head with a flashlight. I don't think she would have the upper body strength. I don't think I could make a gash like that either unless I had a heavy rock and the person's head was on the ground and not standing up.

 

[Brutal Truth]

Why didn't patsy and john just claim that the big bash in her head was an accident? Writing a note, staging a kidnapping, torture and sexual assault was just about the most riskiest thing they could do. They could've staged it in many ways that would've been much easier. The girl could've fallen down the stairs and bashed her head into a sharp piece of furniture or something. Maybe bouncing on her bed and hit the end of her dresser. That is exactly what many abusive parents do. They say it was an accident. Many parents that abuse their kids get away with it because it's hard to prove that it didn't happen that way. The parents could say they didn't see the accident they just found her injured that way they wouldn' have to get tripped up by their questions. The kid slipped in the bathtub and hit her head on the faucet or whatever. Nobody would've questioned it especially considering it was christmas and the prominent parents involved and it probably would've been swept under the rug just like many suicides are not investigated very thouroughly. By staging an elaborate scene like this they were welcoming an extensive investigation, the FBI that would go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

They could've staged an aisenburg type scenario where the kid is kidnapped from the home. They could've gotten rid of the body and waited until the next night and morning. Nobody would've known she was dead and gone the day before.

I thought most of all the top forensic experts claim the strangulation came before the bash on the head anyway.

I also don't believe Patsy could've done that blow to the head with a flashlight. I don't think she would have the upper body strength. I don't think I could make a gash like that either unless I had a heavy rock and the person's head was on the ground and not standing up.

Why didnt PR do alot of things? Such as cooperate with LE. Take polygraphs administered by the authorites. Keep her stories straight about their innocence.

If you think about it, they didnt go to all this trouble for nothing. Obviously something more happend in the house then a swat on the head and stage the scene. And besides, whether they had said it was and accident or not, it was swept under the rug by the DA. He didnt have the stones to fight the Ramseys tooth and nail to bring JBR justice.

Oh and patsy could easily had the strength to bash the kids head in. She was 6 years old. Her head was still far from being fully developed. Dont be so naive.

 

[s_finch]

What do you guys think of this statement, that my sister said to me?
She said if Patsy or John killed JonBenet. That Patsy would have made that statement, because she was on her death bed. My sister said, that she would not have wanted to take this to her grave. She would have asked for forgiveness, before she died. Whatcha all think?

I think that possibility is why JR was beside her until her death, to make sure she didn't slip and say something and/or he was there to do "spin control" if she did say something that sounded like a confession. PR died of cancer, right? That's a painful death unless the person is given plenty of narcotics. I would think PR was given enough medication to make her as comfortable as possible. When my own mother was dying of cancer, she was on a lot of pain medication. During this time, my mom mumbled a lot and occasionally said words, she talked out of her head some and sometimes saw things that weren't there.

If the R's were/are in anyway guilty in JBR's death, then her last days must have been especially terrifying for JR. Then again, I feel guilty for typing that so I have to also add, that maybe he loved her dearly and he was there with her for that reason.

 

[sweetmop]

We have no idea whether or not she did, lilpony. Towards the end, she did say something like "I can't take it back."

Where did you hear that she said that?

 

[LinasK]

Can't we let her rest in peace? If she had murdered in daughter she would be in jail. So I think we should presume her innocent. She didn't appear smart enough to outsmart LE. Besides, she's dead. Isn't that what all you RDI's have always wanted?

No, her death is not what I wanted, now she's taken her dirty little secrets to the grave. The woman is not innocent because she died or even because she wasnt brought to justice (OJ, MJ, Robert Blake come to mind???). A criminal who dies is still a criminal. At best, Patsy was still an accomplice who covered-up her daughter's death!!!

 

[Anita Richman]

No, her death is not what I wanted, now she's taken her dirty little secrets to the grave. The woman is not innocent because she died or even because she wasnt brought to justice (OJ, MJ, Robert Blake come to mind???). A criminal who dies is still a criminal. At best, Patsy was still an accomplice who covered-up her daughter's death!!![/QUOTE]

I agree, LinasK.

 

[LinasK]

Why didn't patsy and john just claim that the big bash in her head was an accident? Writing a note, staging a kidnapping, torture and sexual assault was just about the most riskiest thing they could do. They could've staged it in many ways that would've been much easier. The girl could've fallen down the stairs and bashed her head into a sharp piece of furniture or something. Maybe bouncing on her bed and hit the end of her dresser. That is exactly what many abusive parents do. They say it was an accident. Many parents that abuse their kids get away with it because it's hard to prove that it didn't happen that way. The parents could say they didn't see the accident they just found her injured that way they wouldn' have to get tripped up by their questions. The kid slipped in the bathtub and hit her head on the faucet or whatever. Nobody would've questioned it especially considering it was christmas and the prominent parents involved and it probably would've been swept under the rug just like many suicides are not investigated very thouroughly. By staging an elaborate scene like this they were welcoming an extensive investigation, the FBI that would go over everything with a fine tooth comb.

They could've staged an aisenburg type scenario where the kid is kidnapped from the home. They could've gotten rid of the body and waited until the next night and morning. Nobody would've known she was dead and gone the day before.

I thought most of all the top forensic experts claim the strangulation came before the bash on the head anyway.

Because an autopsy would have exposed that a Ramsey had sexually abused her, that was the bigger thing they were hiding. Also, Laci Peterson's murder happened at Christmas, her "disappearance" was immediately questioned because it was Christmastime.

 

[CaliKid]

So do I.

 

[simplesimon]

I must admit that when I heard a suspect was arrested I was shocked and somewhat relieved! I was surprised how relieved I was that the parents did not do it. I do believe they were involved but still have that little doubt,you know. So in a way I was hoping it was an intruder.I actually felt bad for Patsy because she passed without clearing her name.This case is very confusing that way.The reason I think they are involved is the stupid ransom note,the actions of the R's and Patsy's writing compared to the note ,although I have heard writing analysis called voodoo science. Still their actions are very suspicious. But then I can understand that some people think they could not do that to their daughter especially to cover up something. I ttruly believe that is why the GJ did not indict,just the horrid nature of the crime.

 

[Camper]

"Super Dave,
"Then where did she discard those extra pages? they were never found in the home."

Actually, they were in the trashbasket.

--->>>Super Dave, WE/I never knew that - HOW'd you know that?

I have a memory like an elephant, but on the other hand an elephant does not have that much to remember, cept where food is, where water is and where another elephant is that 'likes him'.

I am laffin, Dave Letterman had many pictures of a lady that died, she was 116 years old, then showed pictures of her three loving OLD children, the a group of about 5 really olde grandchildren, then a picture of her surviving twin brother Larry, and there was a picture of Larry King. Oh my sides, hee hee.

.

 

[IrishMist]

We have no idea whether or not she did, lilpony. Towards the end, she did say something like "I can't take it back."

I remember reading that, too. "There are some things in life you can't take back."

I'll look for a source.

 

[Bobbisangel]

How can we come to the conclusion that Patsy beat Karr as the author of the ransom note when, to my knowledge, he has not been asked to write the ransom note word for word like Patsy was? Maybe the reason more letters match between Patsy and the note is because her sample writing was the exact duplicate and contained the exact words of the ransom note. I do not believe the year book writings did. You are not comparing apples to apples here. They need for Karr to write the note and then compare it like they did Patsy to get a better handle on who beat who.

I sat down and wrote some of the words from the note and everytime I wrote a "t" or an "r" or anything with a tail, the tail bled into the next letter. Could it be this is more common than we think?

Wasn't that handwriting gone over with a fine tooth comb back when JonBenet first died? Didn't they check Patsy's writing against the ransom note? I know that the Grand Jury didn't believe that either Ramsey killed JonBenet because there was no evidence that they did it. LE has enough evidence if they could just catch the killer.

As far as I'm concerned they still haven't found the right person. Someone matches that blood/seman on the underwear. When we find out who that is then we will know who murdered JonBenet.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I remember reading that, too. "There are some things in life you can't take back."

I'll look for a source.

And didn't Patsy also say that one of the first things she would say to JonBenet is, "We need to talk"? WTH?

 

[southcitymom]

Wasn't that handwriting gone over with a fine tooth comb back when JonBenet first died? Didn't they check Patsy's writing against the ransom note? I know that the Grand Jury didn't believe that either Ramsey killed JonBenet because there was no evidence that they did it. LE has enough evidence if they could just catch the killer.

As far as I'm concerned they still haven't found the right person. Someone matches that blood/seman on the underwear. When we find out who that is then we will know who murdered JonBenet.

It remains a fact that when the grand jury heard this case they didn't have nearly the evidence that we have today.

I have never heard that JBR's underwear had semen on it. Is that true? I have heard there is compromised DNA - blood and perhaps (according to Karr) saliva...perhaps some other fluid. Where can I find information regarding semen on her underwear?