Patsy Ramsey

[bettybaby00]

me, too, from experience. one time I nailed plywood over a pane when I couldn't get it repaired over the weekend

and, re the alleged debris that an intruder dragged in: if the window was broken for months I would expect debris to be blown in over time by the wind

Funny how the intruder brought debris in with him, yet the cobwebs were undisturbed, and a shard of glass was still sitting on the window ledge. I wonder if LS moved it before shimmying through so he wouldn't cut his tuckus.

 

[bettybaby00]

You should've seen me...I think I was actually bigger than a house!!

I wanted more children but whenever I brought it up my big macho military husband would turn pale, shake and stutter "b-b-b-but what if it happens again?"
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

I'm with your husband. When my second one was around 3, my husband said, "maybe we should have a 3rd?" I replied, "maybe you should find someone else to have it with!"

 

[Tawny]

My kid frequently has snacks from bowls she never touches. My fingerprints are all over the bowl, but she picks the pieces of fruit out with her tiny fingers and her hands never touch the bowl.

It's highly possibly PR or BR got that bowl out for her and she never touched it.

 

[ElleElle]

Exactly and thank you. I've followed this case from the day it hit the media. It's the one case I can't let go of. I've changed my opinion many times and I have considered every possibility known to man.

All I'm certain of...it was a Ramsey. Very Likely more than one.




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I highly doubt a "killer" hits their house on Xmas day. No other abductions/killings? The father finds her in the cellar.

I followed this case from Day 1 as well. OJ and this case got me hooked on true crime.

 

[DeeDee249]

As far as I know, JB's prints weren't on the bowl or the glass with the tea bag. I have not seen whether her prints were on the spoon. I believe she didn't touch the bowl or glass, but ate the pineapple with her fingers or the spoon.

 

[2 percent]

I'm with your husband. When my second one was around 3, my husband said, "maybe we should have a 3rd?" I replied, "maybe you should find someone else to have it with!"

:floorlaugh:

 

[InstantProof]

This speculation is like profiling...percentages, averages and statistics.
Children that age most likely would not wander the house alone at night - most certainly not in the dark. If they were hungry they would wake mom, not look for food on their own. The handle on that fridge is intimidating to a child unless they had used it before, possibly too tight for her too (meaning she may not have been strong enough to pop the lock mechanism much less the air seal). Why bother with the fridge when pantry items are usually easier to reach and less of a hassle.

You also have to think that JB took the pineapple container and placed pieces into a bowl rather than just eat a piece from the container, and put the container back in the refrigerator.
I think the parents do not say she could have done it herself because then it becomes another grey area where an "insider"/ intruder could be written in or at least leave some doubt for a jury.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I found it mighty interesting how the Ramsey's distanced themselves from everything related to that night and the crime scene.

What they did instead, was attempt to KEEP IT SIMPLE....avoid all talk of what happened. She was asleep, put her to bed..."little put a toy together" with Burke for a bit...( which toy depends on which version John tells) read to a sleeping JonBenet..in another version...
Everyone went to bed, heard nothing...
Never bothered to wake Burke to even see if he was alive, if he heard or knew anything...ushered him out and away. They knew he was a weak link.
And he was. He said JonBenet was awake and walked in...and he was awake that morning and downstairs.



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[Linda7NJ]

To be fair, Jonbenet's situation is not like most six year olds. She's a pint sized beauty queen to wealthy parents. Her situation would not be like average six year olds.

This statement really baffles me. I can't understand for the life of me how and in what way this child's life isn't like the average six year olds... Due to being a beauty queen or having wealthy parents.

I would assert her life wasn't like other six year olds despite her parents wealth & being a beauty queen ...
her panty drawer only contained stained up panties.
She had feces smeared on her candy box,
in child's pants on her floor.
Her mother didn't know when she last bathed.
Their mother was a narcissistic slob that neglected her children.

Once you get past the facade, there is nothing left but dysfunction.

All IMO


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[Theonly1]

This statement really baffles me. I can't understand for the life of me how and in what way this child's life isn't like the average six year olds... Due to being a beauty queen or having wealthy parents.

I would assert her life wasn't like other six year olds despite her parents wealth & being a beauty queen ...
her panty drawer only contained stained up panties.
She had feces smeared on her candy box,
in child's pants on her floor.
Her mother didn't know when she last bathed.
Their mother was a narcissistic slob that neglected her children.

Once you get past the facade, there is nothing left but dysfunction.

All IMO


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Facade is a perfect summation. That family reminds me of an old movie set all painted up pretty, but if you look behind it, it is all a mess...not real. How can you have JBR sitting in feces? Even people do not let their babies sit in feces long. It stinks and that is baby poop. Kid poop really stinks. Gross. Gross. Gross. But as long as she has done her little calves exercises, has a tan, cherry red lipstick, and poofed up hair...then it is all good.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Facade is a perfect summation. That family reminds me of an old movie set all painted up pretty, but if you look behind it, it is all a mess...not real. How can you have JBR sitting in feces? Even people do not let their babies sit in feces long. It stinks and that is baby poop. Kid poop really stinks. Gross. Gross. Gross. But as long as she has done her little calves exercises, has a tan, cherry red lipstick, and poofed up hair...then it is all good.

Who doesn't know when their child last bathed???
Who dresses their child up for a Christmas party without bathing them? Especially a child that still wets the bed on a regular basis AND
Especially considering there wouldn't be time in the morning...they had a plane to be on.

It's disturbing and disgusting.



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[Mama2JML]

Who doesn't know when their child last bathed???

Patsy's recollection was that JonBenét bathed the 24th before going to an evening church service.

Who dresses their child up for a Christmas party without bathing them? Especially a child that still wets the bed on a regular basis AND
Especially considering there wouldn't be time in the morning...they had a plane to be on.

It's disturbing and disgusting.

How so? Was JonBenét dirty? ...stinky? Did she have lice? ...tooth decay? ...halitosis? ...impetigo?

 

[Mama2JML]

The difference is that there were behavioral indicators that seemed suspicious to myself and others. I don't like the term irrelevant when talking about a crime. There's a lot of small details that have the potential to help piece together a larger picture that we haven't connected yet. I think it's important to discuss the things seemingly unrelated to crime itself. The way we perceive their actions is pure opinion, but important nonetheless, IMO.

By the way, I don't think it's very productive to tell me that my opinion is irrelevant, then continue to discuss your own.

I can understand what you mean by your second point, but what I'm getting at is why they wouldn't want him questioned by professionals that are trained in getting information out of people. I could understand if it was further on in the crime and they didn't want him to have access to the gory details (I wouldn't want that either!). While it was still a supposed kidnapping the parents had no reason to not trust police authority and they called them for help. They then denied police access to one of the three witnesses in the home that night. Intruder or not, it doesn't look good which is why I find it important. You don't have to find it important, but because this is a discussion I have the right to expressing my own perceivement of the events of the crime just like you have.

Police questioning a child after the parents have is not grasping at straws. They have the means to ask open ended questions, read body language, etc...

I'm not arguing for how they should have acted, I'm arguing why what they did and the reasons behind it.

Burke was interviewed by Det. Fred Patterson, @ the White's house, on the 26th. ...independent of his parents.

 

[Anti-K]

Not true. If I remember right at some point Patsy claimed no knowledge of pineapple in the house.

You remember incorrectly.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Does anyone besides me see this portion of John Ramsey's statement as an "aha moment?"

3 JOHN RAMSEY: Well my -- my
4 amateur reasoning would be that she came
5 home at -- she was in bed, she was asleep
6 before we got home, which was, you know,
7 9:00, 9:15. I believe she was killed that
8 night.
9 LOU SMIT: What night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: The 25th. If I have
11 my dates right. The 26th, evening of the 26th,
12 rather than early in the morning or the next
13 morning.
14 LOU SMIT: Think about the
15 date.
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well okay, the 25th,
17 Christmas Day night. So if you said midnight,
18 that means there is three hours that I would say
19 there is no way she could have eaten any, as --
20 it's a time mark.

Patsy also said that JonBenet liked fresh pineapple, not canned. According to Steve Thomas's book fresh pineapple from a local "fresh market" was found in a container in a Ramsey refrigerator. This was said to be the pineapple which criminalists tested and found to be consistent with the pineapple found in JonBenet's duodenum.

Iirc, Patsy's timeline statements put her going to bed between 10 PM and 10:30 PM on December 25. John Ramsey, as stated above, believed JonBenet was killed prior to midnight then he, imo, stumbles around trying to incorporate Patsy into his version of events.

Mrs Ramsey said that she usually bought “fresh pineapple, not canned.” She simply said that Jonbenet liked pineapple. I don’t remember Thomas saying that pineapple was found in a container in the fridge. Is this true? The pineapple was consistent with the pineapple in the bowl, but it would also have been consistent with any fresh pineapple found almost anywhere. The Ramseys had Jonbenet being put to bed by 9:30.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Jonbenet would not have needed to open the fridge or be able to reach the bowl and serve herself, etc.

I don’t know what happened any more than anyone else but my imagination is at least as good as anyone else’s. For example: let’s say that sometime Christmas morning Mrs Ramsey puts the pineapple in the bowl and she just forgets about it. Or, someone else puts the pineapple in the bowl and Mrs Ramsey knows nothing about it. People were in the home that morning/day – children and such – so, who knows? Pineapple ends up in a bowl.

Later, maybe even the next morning, someone moves the bowl from over here to over there (where it is later found). Maybe someone clearing space, or cleaning up. Maybe there’s a big spoon sitting there so they pick that up too and move it with the bowl. Why not, eh? Maybe the glass is already on the table when the bowl and spoon is set down beside it.

Now, what if, maybe, who knows, someone makes a cup of tea and once it’s steeped they scoop out the teabag and – oh, where do I put this – ah, there’s a dirty glass. Plunk.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

What makes zero sense to me. If I were locked out of my house and HAD to break a window ...it certainly wouldn't be a small dirty basement window that I'd have to take my clothes off, remove a grate, and climb down....

I find an easier, cleaner way in...then I would call someone to repair it as soon as I was inside.

( posting from experience)



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The basement window would have been a perfect choice – cheap and easy to repair, out of the way, below ground, not easily visible to the public, nothing important exposed to the elements, repairs can be put off, etc.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

me, too, from experience. one time I nailed plywood over a pane when I couldn't get it repaired over the weekend

and, re the alleged debris that an intruder dragged in: if the window was broken for months I would expect debris to be blown in over time by the wind

Unlikely because 1) the window grate, and 2) the location of the hole.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

I find it implausible he didn't recall how or with what he broke the widow.

I remember when I did it. Like it was yesterday. I was mad at myself, took a great deal of time deciding on which window...
Finally opted for one the sofa was against so I would land softly, I used a big rock...


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He did recall. He kicked it.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

BBM

Another falsehood: prints found are meaningless 'cause they live there.

This is not a falsehood.
…

AK