Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #11

[elainebenice]

About the whole "extortion" thing- how could either Joran or the Holloways trust the other in such a scheme? Would Joran really have been clueless enough to think that his arch enemy, who publicly suspected him of causing her daughter's death over and over again, was going to pay him $250,000? Did he really think they had that kind of money? As for Beth, how could she have thought this habitual liar was going to finally tell her where the body was? That's why, it had to originate on the Twitty/Holloway side- that's the way stings always work.

Again, I find the timing most peculiar. The payoff of $15,000 (or was it $10,000- again, conflicting accounts) allegedly took place on May 10. Even some mainstream "journalists" have questioned the obvious oddity of the FBI not busting Joran on the spot, as they invariably do in normal stings. At any rate, almost immediately after this, Joran decides, inexplicably in my view, to go to Peru. Why Peru? What was the attraction there? If he had a lot of cash suddenly, aren't there many far more attractive places to go gamble than this small Third World nation?

I admit I don't know all the nuances in such a conspiracy, but I simply can't accept all these "coincidences." I think that's why so many conspiracies are successful; people are trained, by their teachers, politicians and media, to instantly dismiss such notions. And, by their nature, there are secrets associated with them that none of us, even those most receptive to such theories, can easily surmise.

ok, I appreciate a different opinion on any issue, if for no other reason than the fact I enjoy debating pretty much any subject and you have presented some opinions/theories that I simply can't resist commenting on....

In response to your comments/questions I have bolded in the above post - A) Whether you want to consider it clueless, desperate, or narcissistic the answer to your 1st question is an absolute - YES, he would have been. We are talking about the same person who has told countless versions of the circumstances surrounding NH's disappearance/death and is repeating this same pattern now that he has been caught (or set up if you prefer) in another similar situation. I can only assume that he believed, or at least hoped, each individual he was telling these various versions to actually believed what he was saying, even though it became clear after version 10000 that he was just saying whatever he thought the particular person wanted to hear or he needed to say at that particular time. I've personally known people like this (who haven't killed anyone, at least as far as I know) and I simply describe them all as LIARS. Each and every person I have ever known who has exhibited a chronic problem with telling the truth ALL share at least 1 thing - they have convinced themselves in their own mind that what they are saying is the truth. This allows them to lie with confidence, b/c afterall, what they are saying isn't really a "lie." This false sense of confidence spills over into their perception of how the lies are received by the people they are telling them to, which results in the liar really believing that the other person is actually buying whatever line of BS it is they are trying to sell. When you combine this personality trait with a sense of desperation, such as the sense you would have when you have gambled away your last penny and still need to eat/live, then you end up with a person who can believe things such as - that his arch enemy, who publicly suspected him of causing her daughter's death over and over again, was going to pay him $250,000?

B) I'm not sure if I would call what Beth did as much a "belief" that Joran would tell her where NH's body was, so much as I would call it a "hope" and a desperate hope at that. The kind of desperation that I believe only the parent of a missing child can truly understand. Thankfully, I don't understand the actual depths of this desperation, but I can only imagine it would lead someone to do almost anything if they thought it presented even the slightest chance of getting an answer to a question that has haunted them since the day part of themselves was taken away from them without any warning or explanation.

C) I'm not aware of a textbook definition or procedure that "stings" follow, but I do know that it "takes 2 to tango" and whether JVS contacted NH's family for money in exchange for information or vice versa, the bottom line is - JVS accepted money with the understanding that it was in exchange for him providing information that would ultimately tie him to a much more serious crime than extortion. No one forced him to provide the FBI, Beth or anyone else his location or bank account information. If he was actually contacted by them, he could have easily declined the offer with the explanation that he wasn't involved, therefore he couldn't provide the information they were seeking. That would have put a quick end to the colossal "sting" operation and therefore an end to whatever "plans" NH's family and the FBI may have had going forward as well. You seem to be proposing that the "sting" had an orchestrated grand finale that was scheduled to take place in Peru, just as it ultimately did. I obviously don't give the FBI or Beth enough credit as the amazing puppet masters they must actually be in order to pull off such a unbelievable global operation that managed to coordinate the movements and actions of such a gigantic, unconnected casts of characters. I guess I have the same exact question for you - Why Peru?

 

[suzihawk]

I'm simply stunned speechless. I watched and re-watched @ 50 times already. And don't really know what I think at this point.

I was convinced he killed her before he went for the coffee. Now, as someone just above me said, I'm not even sure he ever left to get coffee.

It looks as if he's struggling with what to do even before he looks up toward the camera the first time and then when he sees it, it's an 'oh holy crap' moment although he's trying to trying to contain it. Then he sort of peeks around the corner just before the employee opens the door and looks up out of the tops of his eyes to confirm.

I've followed a LOT of bizarre cases, but this is the most fascinating, by far. I'm mean, we're pretty much seeing everything except for the actual killing itself.

All I know is with the late hour and all this talk of coffee, I had to make myself a cup.

 

[mister happy]

it definately seems like a sham

he's so fidgety and just did not plan that out very well IMO

That vid is..(to use an overused word)..chilling. But at the same time it looks like something out of the Dumbest Criminals tv show.

 

[Cher352]

bringing over from other thread

link to coffee video:

http://translate.google.com/translate?tl=en&sourceid=ie8-activity&u=http%3A%2F%2Felcomercio.pe%2Fnoticia%2F493043%2Fjoran-van-der-sloot-simulo-como-coartada-no-tener-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

link to two stills of Joran & Stephanie in the casino:

http://www.fotoglif.com/f/vqrs7ta9jx67/x2n6rrykaxko

with special thanks to the people who originally posted them

Those stills confuse me along with the casino videos we saw earlier in the day.

In that one still where she is resting her head...why if she is so tired doesn't she just go home instead of waiting for Jordan...if only she had of!

And then the casino videos...I expected to see her sitting at a table with a ton of chips and Joran coming up and hitting on her but instead it seems she seems to seeks him out as a friend. Their interaction just seems so normal not anything like him planning to rob her. He may have robbed her after the fact but it doesn't look like from what I have seen so far that it was the plan in the beginning.

I guess the more video that gets released the clearer the picture will become.

And by the way...the video they use in Peru amazes me. Most of the video I see on the news here of local crimes have this grainy black and white film that you couldn't recogize anyone from. If more establishments would use better cameras here maybe some of the crimes here could be solved!

 

[Melanie]

was the clerk suppose to open the door and see her?
becoming joran's unwitting alibi?
Joran is with someone when they discover the carnage.
He is clean, freshly showered, coffee for two, calm and charming as always.

When he saw the camera he pulled the plug on finding the body and split?

Pure speculation, but if he were smart, when the clerk opened the door, Joran should have looked on in horror and said "OMG call 911 (or whatever the emergency # is there). I still don't get why he asked the clerk to open the door for him in the first place. It's obvious his mind was turning while he stood there debating whether or not to close the door. Instead he shuts the door, then leaves with his bags a short while later. Leaving a dead Stephany behind.

Still no linky to the clerks story (I'm sure it will be out soon), but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

MOO

Mel

 

[georger]

The two new pics from the casino. Just wanted to point out - in one of them, check out the "chip stacks" for both him and her. He has hardly anything and she's gots "stacks". So we now have verification that she was definitely winning that night!

and you can be sure Joran noticed her stack of chips.

The handshake at the very beginning. She seems typically European to
me: independent, outgoing, a bit naive. Joran looks up at her and says
something and she extends her hand, then stands thinking what to do,
then finally sits not next to Joran but two chairs over (she's cautious).

What got her to his room?

 

[Beyond Belief]

Dumbfounded and speechless!
DP for that performance.

 

[trigger]

Thanx for the video :coffeecup: ........Wow just wow...

What a fool........:floorlaugh:

I bet Beth will smile :biglaugh: seeing this video


Oh yeah Bye Joran :seeya: Your going away for a long long time.

 

[Brassband]

I'm not sure if everyone has seen this beautiful picture of Stephany. She was a stunner. rip

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/intern...loot_saga_rZjdM5aCqgVoJRzOcYhWWK?photo_num=10

 

[newone]

http://www.caretas.com.pe/Main.asp?T=3082&S=&id=12&idE=882&idSTo=0&idA=46851

I hope I copied this link correctly -- if it doesn't work let me know. In this article it states that JVS attempted to get cash from Stephany's credit cards so there would be a bank camera moment on that I believe. The article notes of course that JVS skipped out on the ''rent'' due too.

Also in the article it mentions that Stephany had some gambling debt to resolve in the past as well (using her truck as a collateral). So I am thinking -- the up/down bummer of losing would be good ''rapport'' builder between JVS and Stephany etc.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I think he's been killing for money for years. It probably didn't make any difference if it was a man or woman.

 

[impatientredhead]

Pure speculation, but if he were smart, when the clerk opened the door, Joran should have looked on in horror and said "OMG call 911 (or whatever the emergency # is there). I still don't get why he asked the clerk to open the door for him in the first place. It's obvious his mind was turning while he stood there debating whether or not to close the door. Instead he shuts the door, then leaves with his bags a short while later. Leaving a dead Stephany behind.

Still no linky to the clerks story (I'm sure it will be out soon), but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

MOO

Mel

that is what i am thinking he was going to do, but at the last minute he sees the hall camera and knows he is screwed. No one went in the room but him and Steph, no one comes out but a showered and coffee cupped Joran. The clerk was suppose to get the OMG call the police show, but he caught the camera just before he beckoned LE to his room.

 

[Unreals]

elainebenice,

I appreciate your comments. I'm sure more people agree with you than me. That's okay- I'm used to being in the minority.

Those of us who are predisposed to conspiracy theories often cannot explain the various nuances of whatever theory we're suggesting. This is simply because we weren't a part of the conspiracy, and thus can't hope to name all the participants or the small details. All I'm doing is providing speculation that is admittedly contrary to probably anything else out there on this case.

I see too many "coincidences" here, and am just trying to connect the dots. It's not that easy.

 

[LadyL]

The two new pics from the casino. Just wanted to point out - in one of them, check out the "chip stacks" for both him and her. He has hardly anything and she's gots "stacks". So we now have verification that she was definitely winning that night!

I'm not sure what I'm looking at, not being a poker player

in the first pic with her looking up at the ceiling, there appears to be one chip in front of her & possibly more underneath her hand but there is something else along with her little white changepurse in the next section where nobody is sitting

in the second pic, her changepurse has moved over in front of her and I see a bunch of stacks of yellowish chips (I'm assuming they're worth quite a bit) and the man who was sitting in #9 slot has moved over to #8 position and has his leg extended toward Steph

 

[georger]

I'm simply stunned speechless. I watched and re-watched @ 50 times already. And don't really know what I think at this point.

I was convinced he killed her before he went for the coffee. Now, as someone just above me said, I'm not even sure he ever left to get coffee.

It looks as if he's struggling with what to do even before he looks up toward the camera the first time and then when he sees it, it's an 'oh holy crap' moment although he's trying to trying to contain it. Then he sort of peeks around the corner just before the employee opens the door and looks up out of the tops of his eyes to confirm.

I've followed a LOT of bizarre cases, but this is the most fascinating, by far. I'm mean, we're pretty much seeing everything except for the actual killing itself.

All I know is with the late hour and all this talk of coffee, I had to make myself a cup.

If we knew WHy she went with him to his room in the first place that
might put things in perspective. Did she go for sex, a chat, coffee and
danish, because Joran asked her to come see something (spun her a
lie to get her to his room?) ... if he's planning on robbing her how does he
plan to rob her in his own room and get away? He doesnt know who she is
or did he know who she was ? What did they discuss at the poker table?
Its these details that will add perspective on motive and means -

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

Nite all! We can talk about his new home later today and how much he is enjoying it.
That she be quite the chat on that one.

 

[Cher352]

Pure speculation, but if he were smart, when the clerk opened the door, Joran should have looked on in horror and said "OMG call 911 (or whatever the emergency # is there). I still don't get why he asked the clerk to open the door for him in the first place. It's obvious his mind was turning while he stood there debating whether or not to close the door. Instead he shuts the door, then leaves with his bags a short while later. Leaving a dead Stephany behind.

Still no linky to the clerks story (I'm sure it will be out soon), but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

MOO

Mel

I really think his plan was to pretend she was alive went he went to the store but dead went he came back. Once he saw the camera he knew that wouldn't work but because he didn't have much time to think it out he just went along with the ruse anything.

 

[Brassband]

OOPS...I got caught in the closing of the thread...



That little knuckle type knocking is common went you know someone is awake in the room. I think he did because he was hoping that it would draw the attention to him of trying to gain entrance into the room. He probably hoped a cleaning maid or someone else close by in one of the halls that could hear him pretending to get into the room.

The first video that was released we saw him picking up a key. When he leaves, he should be leaving the key at the desk.
I think this little tapping on the door was so that the employees would not stop him for the key when he left again. They would know that the room was still occupied. I think he was maybe on his way to get the car to dispose of her body, but then saw he was being recorded on video. (just guessing of course)

 

[mister happy]

Snipped, respectfully..

And by the way...the video they use in Peru amazes me. Most of the video I see on the news here of local crimes have this grainy black and white film that you couldn't recogize anyone from. If more establishments would use better cameras here maybe some of the crimes here could be solved!

I was just thinking the same thing! I see security camera footage of a 7-11 robbery on the news, and I think: how can they identify anyone?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Didn't I read earlier that SF's father visited JVDS today? Wouldn't you have loved to be a fly on the wall in that room?

Wonder if daddy told him - "look, you spill all you got on NH and I'll make sure you stay alive in that prison. You don't start talking about NH and I'll personally take the bounty out on your head. It'll only cost a hundred or so bucks!"

Probably not - but a girl can dream can't she?