Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16

[panthera]

Maybe this is why Anita is throwing the mental illness story out there now. Hoping to prevent someone doing in JVS. ??

Possibly that and not wanting him to serve the maximum sentence by trying to mitigate his responsibility in Stephany's death. MOO

 

[Carolina Girl]

Yes, Chase Moody (Texas, USA) died from his restraint.

http://www.statesman.com/specialreports/content/specialreports/restraint/archive/102302moody.html

That was after they passed the law...Cedric Napoleon was the one in killeen and the teacher was a HER!

 

[legalmania]

This part of what he says though is troubling ~ is he inferring that Stephany's father's connections will pay to have Joran disposed of? If so, I disagree. MOO

""You know, that's a dangerous place. ... You've got murderers there, terrorists there - you've got bad people. And the problem he's facing is that the father of Stephany (Flores) ... is a prominent person. And this is an impoverished prison. And you pay off the right people, ya know, someone will stick a knife right in the guy."

IMO I think that who ever takes him down will be a big hero. They might even get a pardon. It probably won't be in the press, but I think after the press goes away so will Joran.

 

[passionflower]

The OVER KILL is what gets me.............JVS should never BE OUT OF ANY prison!!!!

 

[MCDRAW]

I think reading this article affected me more than anything else I've read about this case. It brings in the human element that he is someone's son and she is someone's mother, which we forget when discussing 'the monster' that he's become and the 'bad mother' that made him that way.

Now my heart really goes out to them in the sorrow that he wasn't given the help he needed. But what saddens me the most is for her to say that she's letting him go and '"I will not visit him in his cell, I cannot embrace him." Everyone needs their mother's love....even him.

MOO

I believe that she lost her`son 5 years ago. I don't think she knew it then. I believe she is still in denial about Natalee and even blames her disapperance on how he turned out. One day I believe she will be able to handle the truth. In the meantime, I feel sorry for her, it must be terrible to be in her situation. But I don't doubt her love for Joran.

 

[Bobarino]

Thank you. It looks to me that the line of bruising may be the ribs separated from the breast bone. I have been sick thinking of her fighting. But if this is so, she was also struggling for every breath she took.

Well yes, did you get a chance to read the link I posted a couple of hours ago? From the NG show actually of 2 weeks ago or so. It actually included that they concluded she scratched herself--skin injury on her neck region from her own nails. This coul dbe very important IMO. Iif their supposition is correct, IMO, it may mean she was trying at one point to remove his hands from her throat. Again, if that supposition is true, maybe he did some strangling at first.

A few days back, I hypothesized that the first thing he did was grab her throat, then elbowed her when she didn't given in to his threat. I wonder upon reading that today, if he didn't just immediatey start strangling. And her massive damage to her face and skull and brain was after she was first rendered unconscious from strangling. And not the other way around. So that one sentence about her scratching her own neck could be very important in reconstructing the crime IMO.

 

[jilly]

I think it is the people on the outside. And remember that it was only one prisoner (IIRC) who made that "he is one of us" comment.

Probably one of the guards dressed as a prisoner! Like many of you, I just thought that entire exhibit was staged. Surprised they didn't all burst into Kumbaya!:crazy:

 

[krowdkat]

That was after they passed the law...Cedric Napoleon was the one in killeen and the teacher was a HER!

Thanks, Carolina Girl. I took a particular interest in these cases because a very near and dear person to my heart was sent to a wilderness camp and troubled teen school during this era.

It was a very stressful time for my family and the decisions we all had to make did not come easy.

I do feel for Anita VDS. As with some in my family she is at an age (older now) and of an inabling mentality. I truly believe she does love Joran. She just won't ever understand appropriate/tough love. Or, maybe she is just beginning to. I don't fault her for wanting to protect her child, just how she goes about doing it.

 

[Carolina Girl]

Tough love is never easy, but sometimes necessary. Bless everyone that has had to do it.

 

[panthera]

Probably one of the guards dressed as a prisoner! Like many of you, I just thought that entire exhibit was staged. Surprised they didn't all burst into Kumbaya!:crazy:

The only part I believe could've been staged was prisoners being kept out of the yard and in their cells while Jean was walking around with the camera crew. I wish they had interviewed Ospina though and asked how he enjoys sharing his tv with Joran.

 

[Kat]

Yes he died:
"Male, 14, diagnosed with post traumatic stress and other disorders
Texas; public school
2002
•
230 lb. special education teacher placed 129 lb. student into a prone restraint and lay on top of him because he would not stay seated.
•
Student died as a result of compression of the trunk.
•
Death ruled a homicide, but no criminal charges filed.
•
Teacher currently teaches in Virginia and is licensed to instruct children with disabilities.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09719t.pdf

Thank you! I got a few of the details wrong, but that PDF I saved to my computer to read later. I won't comment again as not to disrupt this thread but I, at the time, wrote to our TX Gov. to express concern.

The child's name was Cedrick Napoleon. Rest in Peace Cedrick. I think of you often.

 

[Carolina Girl]

Bobarino, Sorry I have not read every post, but as many as possible. I will go back and find it, thank you.

 

[krowdkat]

Tough love is never easy, but sometimes necessary. Bless everyone that has had to do it.

My mom has often wisely told me, "Tough love is tougher on the parent, than it ever will be for the child!"

Most of us have a natural instinct is to protect our children no matter what. Tough love is the most unnatural but necessary action a parent must take in order to ULTIMATELY protect our children and others when/if our kids go off the deep end. It will never feel like the right thing to do, even when it is.

 

[Carolina Girl]

Kat,
I must apologise for taking us off topic also. But you did good to remember like you did. It shines a new light on Stephany's bruises.

 

[legalmania]

I believe that she lost her`son 5 years ago. I don't think she knew it then. I believe she is still in denial about Natalee and even blames her disapperance on how he turned out. One day I believe she will be able to handle the truth. In the meantime, I feel sorry for her, it must be terrible to be in her situation. But I don't doubt her love for Joran.

He is self centered and spoiled IMO. He doesn't love anyone but himself. The only time he calls for mommy is when he needs something. I think she should let him hit his bottom. Leave him alone in there, let him know what it's like to have no one and let him realize he did this to himself. I know it's hard to let go of your child but it's time. When he says mom I'm so sorry for what I did to you and dad and I hope you can forgive me, and then apologize to the Holloway's and then the Ramirezs. That is when his mother can embrace him again.

 

[Bobarino]

Carolina Girl:
Here is that link again:
http://www..com/2010/06/jorans-stephany-flores-autopsy/

I re-read it and saw that I didn't realize that that was Nancy Grace speaking and giving her theory. I mistakenly thought that was a Peruvian authoority or such in an official document. So those scratches may, or may not be Stephany's, or they may Joran's.

NG may turn out to be right but we cannot know at this time. Someone scratched her face and chin area is all we can say now I guess. Maybe Monday, they will release much more that they have.

 

[legalmania]

The only part I believe could've been staged was prisoners being kept out of the yard and in their cells while Jean was walking around with the camera crew. I wish they had interviewed Ospina though and asked how he enjoys sharing his tv with Joran.

It would be interesting to see what they watch. Wonder if they have cable? Do they watch the news, because I'm sure it's all about Joran.

 

[Paintr]

Yes he died:
"Male, 14, diagnosed with post traumatic stress and other disorders
Texas; public school
2002
•
230 lb. special education teacher placed 129 lb. student into a prone restraint and lay on top of him because he would not stay seated.
•
Student died as a result of compression of the trunk.
•
Death ruled a homicide, but no criminal charges filed.
•
Teacher currently teaches in Virginia and is licensed to instruct children with disabilities.

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09719t.pdf

On a historical note, there were a couple of Irish Immigrants in Edinbourough Scotland in the early 1800 (IIRC) who killed about 20 people and sold their bodies to medical schools for disection. Their names were Burke and Hare. The victims were killed by chest compression so they couldn't breath. This method of killing became known as being 'Burked.'

It was also a popular method of killing those thought to be witches. Huge stones were piled on the 'witch's' chest until they died.

I know, LOL, useless info...but rather interesting.

 

[hollyblue]

Flail chest?
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/433779-overview

But we haven't heard anything of her having broken ribs or any broken bones except her neck. I'm wondering if we just haven't heard it all and he literally beat her to a pulp. If he did go ballistic, he might have kicked and stomped her too. O man.

 

[GetSmart]

It would be interesting to see what they watch. Wonder if they have cable? Do they watch the news, because I'm sure it's all about Joran.

I remember they reported that the clown & psycho were watching the Soccer Playoffs