Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

[newone]

I would love to see what JVDS would do with a "camel spider" crawling on him in the middle of the night... Thats what my son has to deal with in Afghanistan...and he's a good guy... A rat would be a joke to my son... If you got a sec. google a camel spider..eewwwww....

OMG!!!!!!

I hope I never see one -- according to the online info these monsters are in my neighborhood -- but I have hungry tomcats so hopefully they'll get them first

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I know -- it does bring you (and me) back to reality. How could someone on this earth do such a thing. It's just horrifying!

I don't know....I really don't know. I don't get the overkill or the personal nature of the injuries! I really want to hear a psychiatrist discuss it, I want to know what that is about....He is a lot sicker than I thought...and a lot more dangerous, and scarier...and he can never be released.

 

[Unreals]

Are you still gathering information about this case to write your book...??? I am curious if you know some underlying reason for the death of Stephany..?? Are you trying to say that she was "sacrifisied" at the cost of putting Joran in prision???? cuz I've been reading your post for some time now and I can't seem to see what you are getting at???:banghead:

Yes, I am still gathering information. I certainly haven't abandoned hope.

Again, all I can do is speculate, based upon the "facts" as they are presented to me. Because of my long investigation into the Holloway case, I'm not analyzing the murder of Stephany in isolation. I think it's connected, in some way, to Natalee's disappearance.

I wouldn't call Stephany's death a "sacrifice," although curiously both her father and brother did. I do strongly suspect, however, that she wasn't murdered by Joran. The video tape from that security camera could provide conclusive proof, and I don't mean the snippets that have been released, which are obviously very incriminating towards Joran.

If that tape doesn't show Stephany leaving, or anyone else entering that room before her body was discovered, then I've been wrong about Joran and he deserves the punishment he receives. If, however, anyone else enters or leaves that room during the three days in question, Joran is innocent.

 

[Cottages]

There must be something in that laptop that will sink Joran. I certainly hope they copied what they need.

It wouldn't matter if PLE copied what was on the laptop if the courts determine that the seizure of the laptop was improper. LE would not only be unable to use anything on the laptop, they would be unable to use any evidence that the information on the laptop led them to (in the U.S., it's known as "fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine"). For example, if they learned from the laptop that he stashed $1,000. of Stephany's money and a handwritten confession in an airport locker, they could not use anything from that locker at trial.

Of course, if LE learned something independently (say from airport security who opened the locker because the rental expired) LE COULD use the airport evidence even though it was also information contained on his laptop.

It is highly unlikely, though, that the LE in charge of JVS's case were rookies, so PLE likely had either a signed consent from JVS or already had a search warrant (signed by a judge) waiting for JVS when he got back to Peru. They certainly had the probable cause to issue such a search warrant. That never stops a defendant from challenging the warrants or claiming the consent was coerced once they lawyer-up. It's unusual if they don't challenge everything. Those challenges are the primary reason it takes so long to get to trial (defendant's fault, not the prosecution's).

I'm thinking PLE probably had BOTH a search warrant and consent because surely JVS thought he deleted anything useful...and that PLE would buy that 2- story if he kept insisting long enough. JVS thinks he's smarter than everyone else. Most all like JVS do.

 

[georger]

NG showing crime scene photos again. Nancy talking about the blood drenched tennis shoes, .

Once again NG is exaggerating. The shoes are not drenched ... in blood
but spattered with large drops on the tops and at least one side ...
were her shoes on at the time? attached - (the photos are very poor)

 

[Unreals]

If this was all deliberate HOW did he plan on getting away?

Does he actually think he has some kind of immunity-protection?

From another perspective, how could Mark Fuhrman describe, in great detail, a crime scene so utterly different on Fox News a few weeks ago? Fuhrman reported that he got this information directly from the medical examiner, so there should be no mistakes. He said that the body was lying face up, with only a trickle of blood from the nose and ear. No mutilation of the face. Furhman also made it a point to mention that this was the only blood at the scene.

Question- how did the medical examiner describe such a different crime scene to Fuhrman? There ought to be no translation issues that mistake lots of blood for only a trickle, or neglect to note that the victim was strangled with the bloody shirt of the primary suspect.

These are the kinds of questions that anyone interested in justice should ask, even if you don't believe in frame ups and conspiracies.

 

[georger]

I remember that but now the discussion is the lack of blood on her jeans. I can't figure out though why she would've taken them off and it seems more logical that Joran removed them. Also, if she were already on the floor, couldn't it be possible that blood would only be on the upper half of her body? In looking at the photos, her feet aren't bloody, so I still think he could've taken the pants off afterward. MOO

We havent seen any underwear photos to know if there is blood spatter
on them ... obviously if her pants were on her underwear wont show
much if any blood ?

 

[Melanie]

Yes, I am still gathering information. I certainly haven't abandoned hope.

Again, all I can do is speculate, based upon the "facts" as they are presented to me. Because of my long investigation into the Holloway case, I'm not analyzing the murder of Stephany in isolation. I think it's connected, in some way, to Natalee's disappearance.

I wouldn't call Stephany's death a "sacrifice," although curiously both her father and brother did. I do strongly suspect, however, that she wasn't murdered by Joran. The video tape from that security camera could provide conclusive proof, and I don't mean the snippets that have been released, which are obviously very incriminating towards Joran.

If that tape doesn't show Stephany leaving, or anyone else entering that room before her body was discovered, then I've been wrong about Joran and he deserves the punishment he receives. If, however, anyone else enters or leaves that room during the three days in question, Joran is innocent.

(BBM) I think we can all agree on that. I would love to see a consecutive roll of the tape and not just bits and pieces --

However, my immediate reaction that he's guilty is what he does with the coffee stunt. Goes in with the coffee (we have that tape now), then comes out approximately 11 minutes later, closes the door, lightly taps, then goes to get the clerk to open the door for him. Why? If not to set up an alibi? Like "I just found her like that". Why didn't he go further and let the clerk see it too? I think he got skeered and decided to get out of dodge.

But again, seeing the tape from beginning to end would be the end all of end all evidence.

On another note, the autopsy showed plenty of decomp -- so we are safe to assume she died shortly before/after JVS left the room.

Best,

Mel

ps: MOO

 

[Kat]

It wasn't published by CBS with the original batch of crime scene photos. I found it later by tracing the URL of these photos (a techique I learned here from one of our fabulous sleuthers!!).

It's posted in the media thread...but mis-labelled as 'torso' photo (cause that's what I thought it was when I found it):

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Stephany Flores Ramirez Media Links and Images **NO DISCUSSION**

Those pictures broke my heart. Dios Mio.

Thank you for posting them anyway it wasn't you FLNY. Just me and my tender heart.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

From another perspective, how could Mark Fuhrman describe, in great detail, a crime scene so utterly different on Fox News a few weeks ago? Fuhrman reported that he got this information directly from the medical examiner, so there should be no mistakes. He said that the body was lying face up, with only a trickle of blood from the nose and ear. No mutilation of the face. Furhman also made it a point to mention that this was the only blood at the scene.

Question- how did the medical examiner describe such a different crime scene to Fuhrman? There ought to be no translation issues that mistake lots of blood for only a trickle, or neglect to note that the victim was strangled with the bloody shirt of the primary suspect.

These are the kinds of questions that anyone interested in justice should ask, even if you don't believe in frame ups and conspiracies.

You know what....Mark F. He is completely capable of SAYING he had got this perfect information from the ME when he hadn't ... or maybe the ME only told him a sanitised version of events.

 

[newone]

It will be interesting when someone decides to timeline JVDS activities thoroughout the world and corelate it to missing women -- as it was mentioned earlier (No I am not referring the Bogota airport layover but instead his residential time in the Netherlands as well as Thailand). Earlier someone had mentioned that he seemed very calm (suggesting that in fact he had done this before).

 

[RR0004]

From another perspective, how could Mark Fuhrman describe, in great detail, a crime scene so utterly different on Fox News a few weeks ago? Fuhrman reported that he got this information directly from the medical examiner, so there should be no mistakes. He said that the body was lying face up, with only a trickle of blood from the nose and ear. No mutilation of the face. Furhman also made it a point to mention that this was the only blood at the scene.

Question- how did the medical examiner describe such a different crime scene to Fuhrman? There ought to be no translation issues that mistake lots of blood for only a trickle, or neglect to note that the victim was strangled with the bloody shirt of the primary suspect.

These are the kinds of questions that anyone interested in justice should ask, even if you don't believe in frame ups and conspiracies.

Personally, I think the crime scene speaks for itself. I don't give a hoot about MF and what he's reporting. Look at SF's body and you'll see exactly what happened.

 

[froginTtown]

OK.. to unreals...so you are saying that Stephany is an aftermath??? (so to speak) I think I remember you saying that there was some sort of drug connection with Beth through Natalee??? am I remembering this right???

 

[Melanie]

You know what....Mark F. He is completely capable of SAYING he had got this perfect information from the ME when he hadn't ... or maybe the ME only told him a sanitised version of events.

Very well possible, at that time, to secure the evidence and crime scene. As we've quickly learned, new deets are coming out every day. I can't blame Mark when he has better info than the media -- they were all wrong (tennis racket, baseball bat, etc). The first few days were absolutely manic!

:crazy:

Mel

 

[RR0004]

Those pictures broke my heart. Dios Mio.

Thank you for posting them anyway it wasn't you FLNY. Just me and my tender heart.

IMO...nothing can explain that kind of brutality.

 

[marikesh]

You know what....Mark F. He is completely capable of SAYING he had got this perfect information from the ME when he hadn't ... or maybe the ME only told him a sanitised version of events.

Agreed. I doubt very much that the ME will be giving full details before a trial, especially not to media who will play it for what it's worth and meanwhile the defense attorney gets a heads up, and well you can guess the rest of the story.

 

[marikesh]

OK.. to unreals...so you are saying that Stephany is an aftermath??? (so to speak) I think I remember you saying that there was some sort of drug connection with Beth through Natalee??? am I remembering this right???

Drug connection with Natalee and Beth??:banghead: Renee Gielen's theory?:banghead:

 

[froginTtown]

Why Mark Fuhrman(sp) anyway.... He should go into hiding after the botched OJ case...

 

[Melanie]

It will be interesting when someone decides to timeline JVDS activities thoroughout the world and corelate it to missing women -- as it was mentioned earlier (No I am not referring the Bogota airport layover but instead his residential time in the Netherlands as well as Thailand). Earlier someone had mentioned that he seemed very calm (suggesting that in fact he had done this before).

Hi New,

I am very curious as to the currency he was holding when arrested. Like he had been or was going on a wide-world adventure! What happened along the way?

They pull out of his backpack a laptop, a business-card holder and 15 bills in foreign currency. Van der Sloot tells police the money includes Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency. He is asked for credit cards and documents and appears to say - his Spanish is very rudimentary - that they are in a hotel room back in Chile.

IMHO he left his documents and credit cards somewhere in Chile to avoid being recognized. But why is he carrying Thai, Cambodian and Bolivian currency?

Things that make ya go hmmmm....

http://cbs13.com/national/joran.van.der.2.1736556.html

Mel

PS: Night everyone! Gonna be on the Casey Anthony case tomorrow. 5,000 documents expected to be released!

 

[Peliman]

I wouldn't call Stephany's death a "sacrifice," although curiously both her father and brother did. I do strongly suspect, however, that she wasn't murdered by Joran. The video tape from that security camera could provide conclusive proof, and I don't mean the snippets that have been released, which are obviously very incriminating towards Joran.

If that tape doesn't show Stephany leaving, or anyone else entering that room before her body was discovered, then I've been wrong about Joran and he deserves the punishment he receives. If, however, anyone else enters or leaves that room during the three days in question, Joran is innocent.

I'm having a tough time with this statement on a few levels.

1. The coroner has fixed a time and date of death no? It's only fair a defense attorney could question this at trial.

2. If the standard of proof for homicide required is a video camera be present in order for conviction, we'd all be doomed.

3. Jorans flight out of the country that morning while taking Stephanys jeep in the beginning.

4. We know when Joran left the Hotel and took flight, he was captured with Stephanys blood in his possession. Are you saying this is mis-information also?

5. Joran trying to change his appearance before being captured.

6. Jorans changing stories.

So you see, it's not just one thing that convinces me, it's an accumulation of things. Even if one removed the confession and video camera from the crime, I'd still think he was guilty. IMO

Next come the forensics.