Pet theories and vengeance

[DeeDee249]

IMO the Ramsey's were saving blaming BR as their ace in the hole in case they ever did get indicted, does anyone else think that?

I'm not sure. The staging IMO, was to protect BR, not because he was guilty, but if they'd called for help for a comatose and irreversibly damaged JB, there would still have been huge ramifications for the family. Patsy knew there was always a chance her cancer would come back (as it did), and didn't want her remaining time with her son to be tainted that way. I doubt there'd even have been any jail time for the Rs. But the damage to their lifestyle/reputation/standing in the community would have been unbearable. Do they took a gamble- and won.
I really don't think the Rs would have tried to pin it on BR. I don't think they'd have put him through that, even though according to Colorado law, he wouldn't be charged.

 

[Sophie]

Sophie- different States do have different laws, even in murder cases. While Federal law governs Federal crimes, and are consistent in all States.
That is why the Colorado law concerning involvement of a minor took precedence in this case. In Colorado, the age at which someone can be accused of a crime is 10. Under that age, a child can not be arrested, indicted, accused. Nor can anyone who was an accomplice, even if they are over 10, if the under 10-year-old was involved.
BR was weeks shy of his 10th birthday.

TY, DeeDee. I've said it before and I'll say it again: with you on that multi-agency task force, they'd have this case sorted in weeks.

 

[Sophie]

IMO the Ramsey's were saving blaming BR as their ace in the hole in case they ever did get indicted, does anyone else think that?

Becky, I had never thought about that scenario but it's a fascinating idea.

 

[BBB167893]

IMO the Ramsey's were saving blaming BR as their ace in the hole in case they ever did get indicted, does anyone else think that?

I can't believe even the Rs would do something like that.

 

[BBB167893]

Sophie, if it's all right, I'd like your Old Mum to read this and see whether or not my heart is full of vengeance.

Folks, this is an exclusive. I made up my mind not to post anything from my epilogue, but I will this one time:

I have never doubted that. Patsy Ramsey was a loving mother and an amazing wife and a great friend to everyone who knew her. She was a gorgeous, smart, dynamic lady. In my heart I know she didn't mean for any of this to happen. Even after my "conversion," I always wanted to protect her, to hug her and say, "it will be all right. Just tell the truth and it will be all right. I promise."

SNIP

When I heard that Patsy had died, I was shattered. I didn't leave my house for two days. I mourned her passing for a long time. If I had been with her, I would have told her, "Patsy, it's all right. Don't be afraid. I forgive you. JonBenet forgives you. She doesn't hate you, she loves you. She will always love you. And she needs her mommy. The gods have forgiven you. They will show mercy. Don't be afraid of death."

Yeah, I'm a real monster, aren't I?

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi SD.

Your excerpt of your epilogue, it's very heartfelt.
By reading your many JBR posts, I appreciate your sincerity.


SD, kinda OT, but ...
how much time, ie the PRDI scenario, how much time would PR have gotten, say best scenario for the Ramseys, what would she really have been guilty of, a lesser manslaughter?
say the GJ would have brought charges, .... what was she looking at?

 

[DeeDee249]

Hi SD.

Your excerpt of your epilogue, it's very heartfelt.
By reading your many JBR posts, I appreciate your sincerity.


SD, kinda OT, but ...
how much time, ie the PRDI scenario, how much time would PR have gotten, say best scenario for the Ramseys, what would she really have been guilty of, a lesser manslaughter?
say the GJ would have brought charges, .... what was she looking at?

My guess is NO jail time. Whether the charge was manslaughter, murder, or anything else. First of all, this was not Murder One. This was not a premeditated act. So if there were charges brought at all- possibly manslaughter. I don't know what would have happened when the vaginal injuries were discovered, but I still doubt there would be jail time. I envision a plea deal that would include some sort of mandatory psychological treatment. Definitely Patsy's physical and mental state because of her cancer and various medications would be brought into it.
If JR was found to have helped with the staging, there would be some sort of tampering or obstruction charge, but bottom line- in Boulder, with the clout and political contacts these two had, there would have been no jail time.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi DeeDee.

Ya ... ty for your reply.

I was thinking along those lines, as well; making my way through ST's book, and he mentions that in the mid 90s AH, the DA's office, plea bargained 93% of cases.

 

[Becky319]

Very Nice SuperDave. I hope we all have the opportunity to read your book one day.

 

[Sophie]

Sophie, if it's all right, I'd like your Old Mum to read this and see whether or not my heart is full of vengeance.

Folks, this is an exclusive. I made up my mind not to post anything from my epilogue, but I will this one time:

I have never doubted that. Patsy Ramsey was a loving mother and an amazing wife and a great friend to everyone who knew her. She was a gorgeous, smart, dynamic lady. In my heart I know she didn't mean for any of this to happen. Even after my "conversion," I always wanted to protect her, to hug her and say, "it will be all right. Just tell the truth and it will be all right. I promise."

SNIP

When I heard that Patsy had died, I was shattered. I didn't leave my house for two days. I mourned her passing for a long time. If I had been with her, I would have told her, "Patsy, it's all right. Don't be afraid. I forgive you. JonBenet forgives you. She doesn't hate you, she loves you. She will always love you. And she needs her mommy. The gods have forgiven you. They will show mercy. Don't be afraid of death."

Yeah, I'm a real monster, aren't I?

Bloody hell, Dave: that's some powerful prose! I think I cried less when Beth died in 'Little Women.' You really manage to convey the complexity of your own feelings, and by extension, those of most RprobablyDI.

We're having dinner with M this evening so I'll show her your piece. I can predict her initial reaction with almost mathematical certainty. She'll say,' Aww, what a lovely young man. Do you think he eats enough? Shall I send him one of my Sticky Toffee Puddings and some of that clotty cream from the farm shop?' I think you'll manage to get the point through to her.

In all truth, it isn't just this case that she gets upset about. She cries at the mere mention of Darlie Routier, thinks Debora Green and Diane Downs were probably fitted up and seriously doubts that Rosemary West committed the offences against her own children (although she does believe that she aided and abetted Fred with the non-family murders). She was orphaned as a baby and raised in one of those Catholic convents in Ireland and made it her mission in life that her own children would never have any doubts about where their next cuddle was coming from. Dad was raised in abject poverty in a mining village in the North East of England and made his mission in life that his own children would ever have any doubts about where their next meal was coming from. Between them, they created a home where my sisters and I never doubted that we were anything less than rich (which is amazing in view of how hard-up they must have been) and the most loved little girls in the world. My mother thinks that all parents are like this and she can't envisage a scenario where parents like this may make a terrible mistake and harm their own much-loved child. There isn't a statistic on this earth that will persuade her otherwise.

I'll let you know her reaction to your piece.

 

[Sophie]

Although Confucius say: 'Calling a Glamorous Granny 'Old' is no way to make friends and influence people

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SD.

Your excerpt of your epilogue, it's very heartfelt.
By reading your many JBR posts, I appreciate your sincerity.

Isn't it odd how life works out?

SD, kinda OT, but ...
how much time, ie the PRDI scenario, how much time would PR have gotten, say best scenario for the Ramseys, what would she really have been guilty of, a lesser manslaughter?

I have given a great deal of thought to exactly that, Tadpole. And my instinct tells me that it would have ended in a plea bargain. That was the DA's style. Very little, if any time, would be spent in prison for either one of them.

say the GJ would have brought charges, .... what was she looking at?

I'd say manslaughter.

 

[BBB167893]

Bloody hell, Dave: that's some powerful prose! I think I cried less when Beth died in 'Little Women.' You really manage to convey the complexity of your own feelings, and by extension, those of most RprobablyDI.

Complexity is the right word, if there can be one.

We're having dinner with M this evening so I'll show her your piece. I can predict her initial reaction with almost mathematical certainty. She'll say,' Aww, what a lovely young man. Do you think he eats enough? Shall I send him one of my Sticky Toffee Puddings and some of that clotty cream from the farm shop?' I think you'll manage to get the point through to her.

To hear some tell it, I don't eat enough!

In all truth, it isn't just this case that she gets upset about. She cries at the mere mention of Darlie Routier, thinks Debora Green and Diane Downs were probably fitted up and seriously doubts that Rosemary West committed the offences against her own children (although she does believe that she aided and abetted Fred with the non-family murders). She was orphaned as a baby and raised in one of those Catholic convents in Ireland and made it her mission in life that her own children would never have any doubts about where their next cuddle was coming from. Dad was raised in abject poverty in a mining village in the North East of England and made his mission in life that his own children would ever have any doubts about where their next meal was coming from. Between them, they created a home where my sisters and I never doubted that we were anything less than rich (which is amazing in view of how hard-up they must have been) and the most loved little girls in the world. My mother thinks that all parents are like this and she can't envisage a scenario where parents like this may make a terrible mistake and harm their own much-loved child. There isn't a statistic on this earth that will persuade her otherwise.

I'll let you know her reaction to your piece.

That's tough. Some people need something to hold on to, I guess.

 

[Ripley007]

My "pet" theory has, and always will be, PATSEY RAMSEY DID IT!!!

She's long dead. So does this case really matter anymore?

 

[Ravyn]

To me yes,it matters just for the fact JonBenet needs justice and the truth to be known..

 

[Ripley007]

To me yes,it matters just for the fact JonBenet needs justice and the truth to be known..

If I were a news reporter, then I most certainly would have "Obtain honest interveiw with B. Ramsey SOMEDAY before I die" on my to-do list. He's the only hope for an honest answer to this puzzle in my opinion.

 

[DeeDee249]

If I were a news reporter, then I most certainly would have "Obtain honest interveiw with B. Ramsey SOMEDAY before I die" on my to-do list. He's the only hope for an honest answer to this puzzle in my opinion.

That would be great if that were to actually happen. Unfortunately, there is no way to compel BR to talk to anyone, LE or otherwise, about his sister's death. He can never be suspect, and he just doesn't have to talk about it. I wish he would, but I just don't see it happening.
As the years pass, his memory of that night will be less clear. And it will be colored by whatever he has been told happened. Kids tend to remember things the way they are told they happened, not necessarily the way they actually happened.

 

[Sophie]

That would be great if that were to actually happen. Unfortunately, there is no way to compel BR to talk to anyone, LE or otherwise, about his sister's death. He can never be suspect, and he just doesn't have to talk about it. I wish he would, but I just don't see it happening.
As the years pass, his memory of that night will be less clear. And it will be colored by whatever he has been told happened. Kids tend to remember things the way they are told they happened, not necessarily the way they actually happened.

That's surely right, DeeDee. I seem to recall reading something in which a friend of Burke's at Purdue had said that he had told his friends that he couldn't remember any single detail about that couple of days...

 

[Sophie]

Ripley, ty for your post. That is exactly what my mother finds objectionable about the JBR boards. Namely, that, if PDI (which she doubts massively), Patsy is beyond human justice and it's not for us to intrude on the province of the Almighty who is now surely rewarding her as He sees fit.

I think this is too simple. As long as the identity of the killer remains in doubt, innocent people will be dragged through the mud (eg. another suspect identified in a book just the other week). Equally, JBR's murder will be discussed endlessly as long as it remains a mystery. JBR deserves to rest in peace and this will only happen when the killer is identified and there is no need for the little lamb's life to be discussed in such detail. I have massive fits of concern about whether my discussion of the case is actually adding to the horror of the JBR case and normally conclude that a) who knows where the idea that will break this case will come from? (a Net poster may just hit on the idea that solves this case or someone in LE may read this site and make a thought connection that could break the case) and b) the failures in this case must never repeated and we must never forget the sweet little girl whose murderer has eluded human justice.

The point about God punishing the murderer so everything is OK also only works for believers. Atheists have to swallow the notion that the killer eluded human justice and therefore all justice. Against this backdrop, shrugging our shoulders and saying 'Oh, well, fair play, you outsmarted us. End of' is one option but, just IMHO, it's an appalling option for those whose hearts hurt when they see pictures of JBR.

I also think of the people whose lives have been ruined by this case (eg.McReynolds, Hoffman-Pughs, Whites) and those which have been changed forever (Steve Thomas) and it seems that the least we can do is keep this case alive for their sake so that what they went through wasn't entirely in vain...

 

[Sophie]

Dave, I showed my M your writing. Attuned as I am to her, even I was surprised by her reaction - she wept a river. She says you are a credit to your family for your decency and sensitivity. She's a bit busy as the moment (church fete season) but plans to register so she can say 'hi' to you.

Incidentally, the writing did extract from her the admission that she knows at some level that some parents do harm their children but this is usually owing to some sort of systemic failure (eg. parents lacking education or being social care cases themselves). She believes that the presumption should be that parents like Patsy don't harm their children even in a terrible accident and that the standard of proof must be much higher in cases where parents are suspected than in other cases. Unfortunately, there have been a couple of cases here in the last few cases where parents were convicted and the convictions were over-turned on appeal. This obviously tends to support her view although in one case, the police categorically refused to apologise for being wrong and my own gut feeling is that the parent was in fact guilty.