POI: Joseph Brewer #2

[PillowofWinds]

Does anyone have the link to the Joe Brewer deposition ? Thanks.

Discussions about the Court Docs in the case of Estate of Gilbert V Hackett

 

[Fletch1234]

I was surprised by the interview and timing. Why now? I do seem to believe him more than I did previously. The other neighbors are more suspicious to me. They have changed stories and have been uncooperative The depositions speak for themselves.For most part it seems like he has cooperated and although I don't agree with some of his lifestyle choices his demeanor on the interview didn't seem suspicious to me. Or Maybe a really good actor? He was obviously throwing PH under the bus but IMO anyone with in depth knowledge of this case and has been following closely would have PH high up on the suspect list for sure. JB seems to separate himself from any of the others he supposedly doesn't know the key players very well or least makes it seem that way.But I thought everyone each other there and like GC said not just anyone can buy a house there there is a interview process . Although they say he is not lawyered up he took the 5th on plenty of questions on the deposition.I'm still always boggled by why they would let her make the 911 call if that's really what happened. I guess we have to go by what MP and JB said happened she made the call behind the couch in a drug induced panic. I'm curious if they stopped to get drugs from one of the neighbors seemed like some drug dealing was going on there for quite some time marijuana cocaine and opiates. Not to mention a few overdoses and some very interesting mortgage transactions and donations amongst that community. Quite an interesting group of characters. The secrets in that place make must make it quite unpleasant. The dark cloud over oak beach will be there until all the secrets come out. Hopefully the other neighbors start speaking out.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I’ve listened to the interview on Breaking it down with Joseph Brewer aired on February 2, 2022.

I’m curious if Joseph Brewer were paid to do this interview.

I don’t believe Joseph Brewer is responsible for the death of Shannon Gilbert.

I do believe he is downplaying his relationship with Peter Hackett, and his knowledge of certain people and events subsequent to the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert.

He omits much of what occurred inside his house on the night of May, 1 2010, when Shannan Gilbert was there.

It’s also not credible when he says that he doesn’t know what caused Shannan Gilbert to be upset before she ran out of his house.

The interviewer is not objective, and seems to be trying to present Joseph Brewer in a positive light, especially when he introduces him as “Joe” Brewer, a lifelong resident of West Islip.

The interviewer did not follow up with specific questions about Shannan’s visit to the house or the conversations Joseph Brewer had with Suffolk County Police, Peter Hackett, Michael Pak and Gus Colleti.

The interviewer also did not even touch on the 15 minute car ride Joseph Brewer took with Shannan Gilbert that evening.

This seems like it was done as a public relations broadcast for Joseph Brewer.

 

[WINDSOR]

I’ve listened to the interview on Breaking it down with Joseph Brewer aired on February 2, 2022.

I’m curious if Joseph Brewer were paid to do this interview.

I don’t believe Joseph Brewer is responsible for the death of Shannon Gilbert.

I do believe he is downplaying his relationship with Peter Hackett, and his knowledge of certain people and events subsequent to the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert.

He omits much of what occurred inside his house on the night of May, 1 2010, when Shannan Gilbert was there.

It’s also not credible when he says that he doesn’t know what caused Shannan Gilbert to be upset before she ran out of his house.

The interviewer is not objective, and seems to be trying to present Joseph Brewer in a positive light, especially when he introduces him as “Joe” Brewer, a lifelong resident of West Islip.

The interviewer did not follow up with specific questions about Shannan’s visit to the house or the conversations Joseph Brewer had with Suffolk County Police, Peter Hackett, Michael Pak and Gus Colleti.

The interviewer also did not even touch on the 15 minute car ride Joseph Brewer took with Shannan Gilbert that evening.

This seems like it was done as a public relations broadcast for Joseph Brewer.

I am reminded of the Chinese proverb, "Believe nothing of what you hear, and only half of what you see".

 

[PillowofWinds]

I’ve listened to the interview on Breaking it down with Joseph Brewer aired on February 2, 2022.

I’m curious if Joseph Brewer were paid to do this interview.

I don’t believe Joseph Brewer is responsible for the death of Shannon Gilbert.

I do believe he is downplaying his relationship with Peter Hackett, and his knowledge of certain people and events subsequent to the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert.

He omits much of what occurred inside his house on the night of May, 1 2010, when Shannan Gilbert was there.

It’s also not credible when he says that he doesn’t know what caused Shannan Gilbert to be upset before she ran out of his house.

The interviewer is not objective, and seems to be trying to present Joseph Brewer in a positive light, especially when he introduces him as “Joe” Brewer, a lifelong resident of West Islip.

The interviewer did not follow up with specific questions about Shannan’s visit to the house or the conversations Joseph Brewer had with Suffolk County Police, Peter Hackett, Michael Pak and Gus Colleti.

The interviewer also did not even touch on the 15 minute car ride Joseph Brewer took with Shannan Gilbert that evening.

This seems like it was done as a public relations broadcast for Joseph Brewer.

Absolutely. Not a real interview. We hear over an over how Brewer did NOT lawyer up. Funny, he did "lawyer up" (I now hate this phrase) for his deposition. Just the way he speaks, the tone of his voice and the laughter, makes him sound guilty of something. There are no tough questions asked. I get that he probably would not agree to an interview where he is grilled with serious questions. Seems like he wanted to get out his version of events and make it as if, hey I've always cooperated, I was cleared, I didn't do anything wrong.
I doubt he would do an interview where he is asked the questions we all want to hear him answer.

 

[WINDSOR]

Brewer is not an individual that most would consider a decent man. He has never taken any responsibility for his actions, and continues to do everything to protect himself. I did not listen to the interview, because I do not believe most things he says have any relationship with the truth. He knows he lies, and we all know he lies. He knows what happened and he is not saying to protect himself and others.

 

[Bose]

A while back, I said I wasn't going to listen to Frank MacKay again. I changed my mind after a little while, I was a bit harsh in my judgement, perhaps. And, there are so few places I have found new info on the case. This past week was a great interview (I thought) with a writer, who has had a friendship with a serial killer. I can't remember the writer's name. I have not been able to find reruns of the show yet, and only caught part of it in the car, thought it was good, and Frank's questions were good. Also looking forward to reading some of the guest's books. But, I digress.

The interview with Brewer, though...whoa! Yep, I caught that one (or, was it two?), too. My husband and I were listening to it together, so I know it wasn't just me...the whole interview left me feeling "uncomfortable," in a, "What the hell was that?" type of way, I guess that's the best way I can put it.

Thank you @White_Rabbit for posting your thoughts, and for the follow up comments...so I know my husband and I weren't the only ones questioning the interview.

Brewer seems to be a very glib guy, and very good at establishing rapport. The kind of dialogue and gestures, joking, that tries to put the other person at ease, kind of like saying, "Hey, I'm a good guy, I'm not really paying attention to what I'm doing, I'm just out to have a good time, hey, I'm spur of the moment, I have no malice in me," (in other words, "I'm a mess, I'm not calculating, I make mistakes, I'm honest, forgive me for being this way.") That was the first thing that made me uncomfortable.

It's like a control tactic...Brewer being friendly and seemed to act like he was/is a completely different person than the one who was with Shannan that night, who wound up dead after being at his house.

Frank MacKay fell for it, and started mirroring his friendly banter, back at him, and at the audience...until the end when I was wondering, "Oh gawd, it has turned into the Frank and Brewer comedy hour." Felt like they were co-hosting, instead of an interviewer and interviewee--Brewer managed to steer the interviewer's control away from him. Frank seemed to not even want to ask any serious questions where Brewer was involved, and instead hedged around. On top of that, Frank interrupted Brewer at times when Brewer was trying to say something, to the point I think Brewer interrupted him back to yell out some stuff near the end of interview.

If Brewer, who we know had Shannan at his house, managed to avoid answering any serious questions (to my recollection) about his involvement with things that night, and leave the audience baffled, and possibly Frank feeling like he had a new friend...the interview was a disaster.

And IMHO Brewer is really good at steering people the way he wants them to go, and the way he wants them to think about him--just a good guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not once did I feel empathy/sympathy coming from him toward Shannan. Toward the families, maybe a little sympathy (usually just repeats that his heart goes out to the victims's families, or something cliche).

But, what about the girl who was at his house who he spent time with, Shannan? No sleepless nights when she's dead? No haunting memories or remorse for having hired her? If she was having a medical/psychological incident, no guilt for not trying to get her medical attention? No feeling guilty that he should have done more to help her...if it was someone else who hurt her? No sickness, feeling sick, that her dead body was there...in the area?

A big piece, IMHO is missing there, with him--his view of Shannan.

In my free time, I've been checking out The Behavior Panel show on YouTube. If anyone's interested in body language, or the way people act, especially when guilty of something, I'd suggest it. I won't direct link, but a simple Google search should bring it up.

 

[eagleyeseymour]

A while back, I said I wasn't going to listen to Frank MacKay again. I changed my mind after a little while, I was a bit harsh in my judgement, perhaps. And, there are so few places I have found new info on the case. This past week was a great interview (I thought) with a writer, who has had a friendship with a serial killer. I can't remember the writer's name. I have not been able to find reruns of the show yet, and only caught part of it in the car, thought it was good, and Frank's questions were good. Also looking forward to reading some of the guest's books. But, I digress.

The interview with Brewer, though...whoa! Yep, I caught that one (or, was it two?), too. My husband and I were listening to it together, so I know it wasn't just me...the whole interview left me feeling "uncomfortable," in a, "What the hell was that?" type of way, I guess that's the best way I can put it.

Thank you @White_Rabbit for posting your thoughts, and for the follow up comments...so I know my husband and I weren't the only ones questioning the interview.

Brewer seems to be a very glib guy, and very good at establishing rapport. The kind of dialogue and gestures, joking, that tries to put the other person at ease, kind of like saying, "Hey, I'm a good guy, I'm not really paying attention to what I'm doing, I'm just out to have a good time, hey, I'm spur of the moment, I have no malice in me," (in other words, "I'm a mess, I'm not calculating, I make mistakes, I'm honest, forgive me for being this way.") That was the first thing that made me uncomfortable.

It's like a control tactic...Brewer being friendly and seemed to act like he was/is a completely different person than the one who was with Shannan that night, who wound up dead after being at his house.

Frank MacKay fell for it, and started mirroring his friendly banter, back at him, and at the audience...until the end when I was wondering, "Oh gawd, it has turned into the Frank and Brewer comedy hour." Felt like they were co-hosting, instead of an interviewer and interviewee--Brewer managed to steer the interviewer's control away from him. Frank seemed to not even want to ask any serious questions where Brewer was involved, and instead hedged around. On top of that, Frank interrupted Brewer at times when Brewer was trying to say something, to the point I think Brewer interrupted him back to yell out some stuff near the end of interview.

If Brewer, who we know had Shannan at his house, managed to avoid answering any serious questions (to my recollection) about his involvement with things that night, and leave the audience baffled, and possibly Frank feeling like he had a new friend...the interview was a disaster.

And IMHO Brewer is really good at steering people the way he wants them to go, and the way he wants them to think about him--just a good guy in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not once did I feel empathy/sympathy coming from him toward Shannan. Toward the families, maybe a little sympathy (usually just repeats that his heart goes out to the victims's families, or something cliche).

But, what about the girl who was at his house who he spent time with, Shannan? No sleepless nights when she's dead? No haunting memories or remorse for having hired her? If she was having a medical/psychological incident, no guilt for not trying to get her medical attention? No feeling guilty that he should have done more to help her...if it was someone else who hurt her? No sickness, feeling sick, that her dead body was there...in the area?

A big piece, IMHO is missing there, with him--his view of Shannan.

In my free time, I've been checking out The Behavior Panel show on YouTube. If anyone's interested in body language, or the way people act, especially when guilty of something, I'd suggest it. I won't direct link, but a simple Google search should bring it up.

My thought after hearing Part 1 was that MacKay was playing the long game. If he grilled Brewer too hard, he risked him declining a second interview and/or putting his guard up. I thought MacKay was simply building rapport to get Brewer talking. After 3 interviews though, it doesn't appear that is the case.

Some potential points of inquiry regarding Brewer:

• His comment's in Lost Girls [paraphasing] "I have big chits on that... can't say because they're my friends"
• The Oak Beach Drifter - address allegations and claims made in the book and interview on the LISK podcast
• Clarification on what happened the night Shannan disappeared :
  • The CVS run
  • Potential causes for Shannan's confusion/mania
  • 911 Call

MacKay hasn't touched on anything substantive. The dialogue is not all that different from his conversations with Joe Scalise where he is speaking to them as a resident of Oak Beach... except, Brewer is much more than a neighbor with some information. He is "the John" Shannan went to service. He spent multiple hours with her....

Not impressed and while I don't think Brewer is involved in the Gilgo 4, he certainly isn't one to be trusted under any circumstance.

 

[PillowofWinds]

I have read that the residents can't do much without Board approval. It's an affluent, gated community. So in the wee hours of the morning, Shannan supposedly freaked out for no reason in his house and ran away. And her jacket was in his driveway? If you are running away, why would you take your jacket off? You would just be booking down the street. So she calls 911 and hysterically runs away, and Brewer just decides to close the door and go to sleep. LOL yeah, ok. He lives next door to a priest and right down the road from a SC police officer and a bunch of older folks and families. He doesn't worry that anyone will have a problem with an unfamiliar vehicle chasing a hysterical prostitute around in the community? BS! I do believe he chased her and caught her with Pak's help.

And when the cops arrived, why were the cameras not checked then and there? One lies and the others swear to it over there. Lot of criminal activity there and looks like they all have dirt on one another.

And I believe that it is highly possible they had Hackett sedate her. Sounds like all these suspicious people are now trying to frame and blame Hackett, solely. Brewer acts like he barely knew anyone in the community. That is extremely hard to believe. You have Scalice Sr stating that Brewer and Shannan went and picked up coke from Tom Canning. No one is asking about that? Why isn't Mackay asking Brewer to refute this? It's all public information anyone can read.

 

[PillowofWinds]

Also, I believe Shannan's body was placed there as part of the plot to make it look like she simply ran away and died on her own. They already had that story concocted and we know that from how they immediately were saying she drowned in the marsh. It's like Brewer expects us to believe she ran from his house and by chance encountered Hackett, who killed her. If Hackett is a serial killer, he sure got lucky that morning. Didn't even have to hire a prostitute himself, she just showed up, running from Brewer's house. Give me a break. I highly doubt this is ever going to be brought to light. The people involved have too much dirt on each other and have very strong political and powerful pull. And being a local, I can tell you, people barely talk about this case or know anything about it. You would think it would be top news constantly. It is sad that it seems like people just don't care.

 

[Bose]

My thought after hearing Part 1 was that MacKay was playing the long game. If he grilled Brewer too hard, he risked him declining a second interview and/or putting his guard up. I thought MacKay was simply building rapport to get Brewer talking. After 3 interviews though, it doesn't appear that is the case.

Some potential points of inquiry regarding Brewer:

• His comment's in Lost Girls [paraphasing] "I have big chits on that... can't say because they're my friends"
• The Oak Beach Drifter - address allegations and claims made in the book and interview on the LISK podcast
• Clarification on what happened the night Shannan disappeared :
  • The CVS run
  • Potential causes for Shannan's confusion/mania
  • 911 Call

MacKay hasn't touched on anything substantive. The dialogue is not all that different from his conversations with Joe Scalise where he is speaking to them as a resident of Oak Beach... except, Brewer is much more than a neighbor with some information. He is "the John" Shannan went to service. He spent multiple hours with her....

Not impressed and while I don't think Brewer is involved in the Gilgo 4, he certainly isn't one to be trusted under any circumstance.

Great post, very well said! I never read any of the Oak Beach Drifter stuff, but have listened to the LISK podcasts. I think you posed some great questions, there, and stated in a concise way the fact there is no getting around--as you said, he is "the John."

 

[Bose]

I have read that the residents can't do much without Board approval. It's an affluent, gated community. So in the wee hours of the morning, Shannan supposedly freaked out for no reason in his house and ran away. And her jacket was in his driveway? If you are running away, why would you take your jacket off? You would just be booking down the street. So she calls 911 and hysterically runs away, and Brewer just decides to close the door and go to sleep. LOL yeah, ok. He lives next door to a priest and right down the road from a SC police officer and a bunch of older folks and families. He doesn't worry that anyone will have a problem with an unfamiliar vehicle chasing a hysterical prostitute around in the community? BS! I do believe he chased her and caught her with Pak's help.

I'm thinking, she didn't take her jacket off. Just IMO, but perhaps as she was running away someone was trying to pull her by the arm, and had hold of her sleeve, and she let the jacket go. Maybe. Only saying that, because I've had that thing happen to me, where someone grabbed me by the sleeve and tried to pull me back, really hard, and I maneuvered myself to get out of the jacket by pulling my arm out...and left the person with it. That's just my experience, though.

Yes, as has been the issue from the beginning, things don't make logical sense in many ways. A quiet gated community where there's a ruckus starting. Who the heck knows if Brewer said to Pak to go get her, catch up with her, and shut her up essentially/get her out of the area, because she was making too much noise. Do we know if Brewer could have gone in the vehicle with Pak to look for her? I agree, no way Brewer was going to sleep. There was a frightened girl running, and it was close to sunrise (or the sun was up) (correct me if I'm wrong) by the time she had made it to Brennan's house. Shannan was intent on getting help, or trying to...and Brewer had to be annoyed/concerned that his neighbors would be woken up and know his business. All IMO/speculation.

 

[Bose]

Also, I believe Shannan's body was placed there as part of the plot to make it look like she simply ran away and died on her own. They already had that story concocted and we know that from how they immediately were saying she drowned in the marsh. It's like Brewer expects us to believe she ran from his house and by chance encountered Hackett, who killed her. If Hackett is a serial killer, he sure got lucky that morning. Didn't even have to hire a prostitute himself, she just showed up, running from Brewer's house. Give me a break. I highly doubt this is ever going to be brought to light. The people involved have too much dirt on each other and have very strong political and powerful pull. And being a local, I can tell you, people barely talk about this case or know anything about it. You would think it would be top news constantly. It is sad that it seems like people just don't care.

I agree, "If Hackett is a serial killer, he sure got lucky this morning."

As you said, I have my doubts as to whether this will ever be brought to light, in full. Hackett has a lot of shady stuff through the years, and has a major lying problem, but I'm having difficulty merging all of the stories/theories together of Pak/Brewer/Hackett, as they have been told. I re-run the scenarios in my mind, as I'm sure some others here do. I wonder if it all boils down to drugs, sometimes. Not Shannan taking drugs. But, Shannan and Pak providing drugs to Brewer, and then getting more from TC. Hackett's handing out drugs to who knows who, and not seemingly following protocol (I still doubt he's an actual doctor, going back to his MD days, and turned into a prescription drug supplier in later years). Vendettas in Oak Beach, coupled with silence on certain issues, where people have too much to lose. It's been many years now since I lived in West Babylon, at the time the bodies were found, some people seemed to take notice. I'm sad to hear people barely know anything about the case, or talk about it, at this point in time. I wish more people cared, and it's sad that they don't, IMO.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I'm thinking, she didn't take her jacket off. Just IMO, but perhaps as she was running away someone was trying to pull her by the arm, and had hold of her sleeve, and she let the jacket go. Maybe. Only saying that, because I've had that thing happen to me, where someone grabbed me by the sleeve and tried to pull me back, really hard, and I maneuvered myself to get out of the jacket by pulling my arm out...and left the person with it. That's just my experience, though.

Yes, as has been the issue from the beginning, things don't make logical sense in many ways. A quiet gated community where there's a ruckus starting. Who the heck knows if Brewer said to Pak to go get her, catch up with her, and shut her up essentially/get her out of the area, because she was making too much noise. Do we know if Brewer could have gone in the vehicle with Pak to look for her? I agree, no way Brewer was going to sleep. There was a frightened girl running, and it was close to sunrise (or the sun was up) (correct me if I'm wrong) by the time she had made it to Brennan's house. Shannan was intent on getting help, or trying to...and Brewer had to be annoyed/concerned that his neighbors would be woken up and know his business. All IMO/speculation.

Thank you Bose for your observation regarding Shannan Gilbert slipping out of her jacket, it is Avery feasible idea.

In my view it would most likely have been Michael Pak that had tried to grab Shannan while she was running away.

Joseph Brewer must have been relieved when Shannan ran from his house and Michael Pak drove after her in pursuit.

Joseph Brewer stood behind his Fifth Amendment right many times during his deposition in order to omit the fact that he hired Shannan as an escort that evening.

There are many suggestions that there were a conspiracy that night between Peter Hackett, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak to commit murder, and that Peter Hackett may be a serial killer, but I don’t believe it is that complicated.

Based on everything I have seen and read about the case, it seems as if Joseph Brewer hired Shannan Gilbert as an escort for the evening, purchased and used drugs with her, had sexual contact with her in exchange for money, became paranoid about her being a transvestite, asked her to leave without paying for an extension of her visit, and when she didn’t leave without being paid tried to forcibly remove her from the house. I believe that once Shannan was able to dial 911 it became a serious problem for him and he attempted to solicit Michael Pak’s help. I believe then Michael Pak at some point attempted to forcibly remove her and she ran from the house.

Michael Pak pursued her, and she ultimately ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house, where he Peter Hackett was somehow alerted to her presence and offered assistance, presumably assuring Shannan that he was a doctor and that he would help her.

Michael Pak had either already caught up to Shannnan or showed up shortly after her encounter with Peter Hackett.

At this point it is plausible that Peter Hackett decided to treat Shannan with a strong barbiturate in an attempt to calm her down, without first assessing her medical history or current toxicology. When Shannan is calm enough he discharged her in Michael Pak’s custody, she became unresponsive on the way out of Oak Beach, and a panicked Michael Pak dumped her in the brambles along the shoulder of Ocean Parkway, and dumped her belongings in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house in an attempt to put the focus on Peter Hackett once Shannan is discovered, and then drove home.

The missing person’s case of Shannan Gilbert inadvertently leads to the discovery of the Gilgo Beach 4, who I believe were murdered by an unidentified serial killer.

Out of the 5 witnesses that had some sort of interaction with Shannan Gilbert that evening, one has died (Gus Colleti), one had minimal contact with her (Barbara Brennan), one was involved in illegal activities with her (Joseph Brewer), and two may be culpable in her death (Michael Pak and Peter Hackett). Unless one of them decides to admit culpability there is nothing to substantiate the theory outlined here.

In my view, if new evidence could substantiate the theory, Peter Hackett could be charged with negligent homicide, and Michael Pak as an accessory after the fact. Although, in this scenario had Michael Pak had done what is right and brought Shannan to the hospital, she may have survived, the people involved not have been given so much notoriety, and the Gilgo Beach 4 may never have been discovered.

 

[LR1]

Out of the 5 witnesses that had some sort of interaction with Shannan Gilbert that evening, one has died (Gus Colleti), one had minimal contact with her (Barbara Brennan), one was involved in illegal activities with her (Joseph Brewer), and two may be culpable in her death (Michael Pak and Peter Hackett). Unless one of them decides to admit culpability there is nothing to substantiate the theory outlined here.

What's your source for Hackett having interaction with Shannan that evening?

 

[WINDSOR]

What's your source for Hackett having interaction with Shannan that evening?

Wouldn't the fact PCH has admitted calling Shannan's mother Mari, and telling Mari, he had treated Shannan validate there was a interaction?

 

[PillowofWinds]

Thank you Bose for your observation regarding Shannan Gilbert slipping out of her jacket, it is Avery feasible idea.

In my view it would most likely have been Michael Pak that had tried to grab Shannan while she was running away.

Joseph Brewer must have been relieved when Shannan ran from his house and Michael Pak drove after her in pursuit.

Joseph Brewer stood behind his Fifth Amendment right many times during his deposition in order to omit the fact that he hired Shannan as an escort that evening.

There are many suggestions that there were a conspiracy that night between Peter Hackett, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak to commit murder, and that Peter Hackett may be a serial killer, but I don’t believe it is that complicated.

Based on everything I have seen and read about the case, it seems as if Joseph Brewer hired Shannan Gilbert as an escort for the evening, purchased and used drugs with her, had sexual contact with her in exchange for money, became paranoid about her being a transvestite, asked her to leave without paying for an extension of her visit, and when she didn’t leave without being paid tried to forcibly remove her from the house. I believe that once Shannan was able to dial 911 it became a serious problem for him and he attempted to solicit Michael Pak’s help. I believe then Michael Pak at some point attempted to forcibly remove her and she ran from the house.

Michael Pak pursued her, and she ultimately ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house, where he Peter Hackett was somehow alerted to her presence and offered assistance, presumably assuring Shannan that he was a doctor and that he would help her.

Michael Pak had either already caught up to Shannnan or showed up shortly after her encounter with Peter Hackett.

At this point it is plausible that Peter Hackett decided to treat Shannan with a strong barbiturate in an attempt to calm her down, without first assessing her medical history or current toxicology. When Shannan is calm enough he discharged her in Michael Pak’s custody, she became unresponsive on the way out of Oak Beach, and a panicked Michael Pak dumped her in the brambles along the shoulder of Ocean Parkway, and dumped her belongings in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house in an attempt to put the focus on Peter Hackett once Shannan is discovered, and then drove home.

The missing person’s case of Shannan Gilbert inadvertently leads to the discovery of the Gilgo Beach 4, who I believe were murdered by an unidentified serial killer.

Out of the 5 witnesses that had some sort of interaction with Shannan Gilbert that evening, one has died (Gus Colleti), one had minimal contact with her (Barbara Brennan), one was involved in illegal activities with her (Joseph Brewer), and two may be culpable in her death (Michael Pak and Peter Hackett). Unless one of them decides to admit culpability there is nothing to substantiate the theory outlined here.

In my view, if new evidence could substantiate the theory, Peter Hackett could be charged with negligent homicide, and Michael Pak as an accessory after the fact. Although, in this scenario had Michael Pak had done what is right and brought Shannan to the hospital, she may have survived, the people involved not have been given so much notoriety, and the Gilgo Beach 4 may never have been discovered.

this is a very logical, thought out theory of events. What doesn't sit right with me is:
-if Brewer didn't pay her, or there was a money dispute, wouldn't pak side with shannan, as he is supposed to be paid, as well (let me add i dont believe the $ amts he claims to make...seems very low to spend all that gas money and time)
-wouldnt pak want shannan to be safe and sound since she was a source of income for him?
-wouldnt brewer want to be sure that they left the gated community?


WR, do you believe the possibility of it being a party with more attendees, who did have a "hobby" of making snuff films?

 

[PillowofWinds]

I'm thinking, she didn't take her jacket off. Just IMO, but perhaps as she was running away someone was trying to pull her by the arm, and had hold of her sleeve, and she let the jacket go. Maybe. Only saying that, because I've had that thing happen to me, where someone grabbed me by the sleeve and tried to pull me back, really hard, and I maneuvered myself to get out of the jacket by pulling my arm out...and left the person with it. That's just my experience, though.

Yes, as has been the issue from the beginning, things don't make logical sense in many ways. A quiet gated community where there's a ruckus starting. Who the heck knows if Brewer said to Pak to go get her, catch up with her, and shut her up essentially/get her out of the area, because she was making too much noise. Do we know if Brewer could have gone in the vehicle with Pak to look for her? I agree, no way Brewer was going to sleep. There was a frightened girl running, and it was close to sunrise (or the sun was up) (correct me if I'm wrong) by the time she had made it to Brennan's house. Shannan was intent on getting help, or trying to...and Brewer had to be annoyed/concerned that his neighbors would be woken up and know his business. All IMO/speculation.

it definitely sounds like that with her jacket. and brewer says something about it just sitting there for a week, or something to that effect. So strange.

 

[Bose]

Thank you Bose for your observation regarding Shannan Gilbert slipping out of her jacket, it is Avery feasible idea.

In my view it would most likely have been Michael Pak that had tried to grab Shannan while she was running away.

Joseph Brewer must have been relieved when Shannan ran from his house and Michael Pak drove after her in pursuit.

Joseph Brewer stood behind his Fifth Amendment right many times during his deposition in order to omit the fact that he hired Shannan as an escort that evening.

There are many suggestions that there were a conspiracy that night between Peter Hackett, Joseph Brewer and Michael Pak to commit murder, and that Peter Hackett may be a serial killer, but I don’t believe it is that complicated.

Based on everything I have seen and read about the case, it seems as if Joseph Brewer hired Shannan Gilbert as an escort for the evening, purchased and used drugs with her, had sexual contact with her in exchange for money, became paranoid about her being a transvestite, asked her to leave without paying for an extension of her visit, and when she didn’t leave without being paid tried to forcibly remove her from the house. I believe that once Shannan was able to dial 911 it became a serious problem for him and he attempted to solicit Michael Pak’s help. I believe then Michael Pak at some point attempted to forcibly remove her and she ran from the house.

Michael Pak pursued her, and she ultimately ended up in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house, where he Peter Hackett was somehow alerted to her presence and offered assistance, presumably assuring Shannan that he was a doctor and that he would help her.

Michael Pak had either already caught up to Shannnan or showed up shortly after her encounter with Peter Hackett.

At this point it is plausible that Peter Hackett decided to treat Shannan with a strong barbiturate in an attempt to calm her down, without first assessing her medical history or current toxicology. When Shannan is calm enough he discharged her in Michael Pak’s custody, she became unresponsive on the way out of Oak Beach, and a panicked Michael Pak dumped her in the brambles along the shoulder of Ocean Parkway, and dumped her belongings in the vicinity of Peter Hackett’s house in an attempt to put the focus on Peter Hackett once Shannan is discovered, and then drove home.

The missing person’s case of Shannan Gilbert inadvertently leads to the discovery of the Gilgo Beach 4, who I believe were murdered by an unidentified serial killer.

Out of the 5 witnesses that had some sort of interaction with Shannan Gilbert that evening, one has died (Gus Colleti), one had minimal contact with her (Barbara Brennan), one was involved in illegal activities with her (Joseph Brewer), and two may be culpable in her death (Michael Pak and Peter Hackett). Unless one of them decides to admit culpability there is nothing to substantiate the theory outlined here.

In my view, if new evidence could substantiate the theory, Peter Hackett could be charged with negligent homicide, and Michael Pak as an accessory after the fact. Although, in this scenario had Michael Pak had done what is right and brought Shannan to the hospital, she may have survived, the people involved not have been given so much notoriety, and the Gilgo Beach 4 may never have been discovered.

Very plausible, IMO, and said better than I ever could. Pak could have been the one to grab her, try and get hold of her, as she was running, and maybe her jacket came off in the process. I'd have to go back and look at BB's EBT to see if she recalled Shannan wearing a jacket when she saw her.

I've always thought, since I joined this board, that your explanations/ideas are probably fairly close to what may have actually happened. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Pak would be capable of doing what was done. There are just so many gaps to fill in, and whatever lies exist--without proof to disprove the lie, have only confused the situation through the years, for any of us interested in the case.

 

[Bose]

it definitely sounds like that with her jacket. and brewer says something about it just sitting there for a week, or something to that effect. So strange.

I do remember Brewer saying that the jacket was sitting there for a while, as well. It's just ridiculous, IMO. He had to have known it was Shannan's, not just some random piece of clothing from a stranger that wound up there. If it was me, I would have bagged it, wearing gloves, and brought it down to the police station, or pestered the police to come get it. It wound up supposedly being "lost," if I remember correctly(?) either lost after sitting near Brewer's house (i.e., thrown in the garbage, maybe), or "lost" at the police station.

I've got to pull up the EBT again, and probably listen to the MacKay interviews to verify the stories about the jacket that he told, and see if there are inconsistencies.