POI: Michael Pak

[Gerontion]

I'll grant you that. The entire scenario is "Pak said". But that is all we have to go on, from that perspective. On the other hand we have accounts of "voices in the background trying to calm her down" (according to the "reports" about the receiving end of SG's 911 call). It is all we have to work with.
IMG, I see Brewer then kicking her jacket out the front door, (IIRC, he said it sat in his driveway for days) closing the door, and washing his hands of the whole affair. Nice guys, huh?

 

[Peter Brendt]

I'll grant you that. The entire scenario is "Pak said". But that is all we have to go on, from that perspective. On the other hand we have accounts of "voices in the background trying to calm her down" (according to the "reports" about the receiving end of SG's 911 call). It is all we have to work with.
IMG, I see Brewer then kicking her jacket out the front door, (IIRC, he said it sat in his driveway for days) closing the door, and washing his hands of the whole affair. Nice guys, huh?

Which would put the jacket at Brewer's driveway, not at somewhere on Anchor Way ...
However, what I would like to do is, to hold every part of Pak's statement against what is possible and reasonable before I buy the thing in whole.

- I buy the drug part because it's consistent with what GC says, the impression, she left with the dispatcher and her erratic ways through OB

- I buy, that JB called MP in to get SG out of there, because it would be a logical reaction, not because JB was annoyed. My guess, IMO, I am thinking, JB may recognized the signs of a bad drug reaction as did MP. That would give JB motive to get SG out of the house as fast as possible before she may ends up as oded body behind his couch. On the other hand, MP may would have hoped to calm her down because it's no joy to drive with a paranoid screaming girl in the car praying, she doesn't collapse and ends up as body in the car.

- what I don't buy is the part, where MP just sits down and waits for her to finish her 911 call. To come in contact with police was the last thing Pak wanted. Well, or the second last thing. The last would be to come in contact with the police while in company of a drugged prostitute he drove to a customer who now would have motive to wash himself clean.
So, seeing it from Pak's point of view, he had two options. Either try to talk her back to reality or just threaten to leave without her and hope, it would make her run after him because he was her ride home. So my guess is, he went out again pretty soon, he didn't sit on that couch for long. But you're right, one of those voices on the tape could be Pak's. Which gives us JB's voice and maybe Pak's voice, but still not "several".

- the point, I can't figure is, did MP know and believe, SG called 911. If he knew and actually believed it, it would have been for him the crossing of the next threshold. And given, there were at least two fully grown males (Brewer and Pak) there, it wouldn't been a thing of impossibility to grab her and just carry her to the car. But since the tape ended (according to John Ray, who read the transcript but didn't hear actually the tape) with SG running out (and JR in 48 Hours says nothing about her stumbling), we know, that obviously didn't happen. Why not?
See, if MP knew she called 911, to do nothing is somewhat contradictory behavior on MP's side. It makes only sense if he didn't know.

 

[Vivalor]

I thought that MP was accounted for on the 911 call when he was asking her about the movie? As in it was a fact that LE new for sure he was on the 911 call? Could be wrong maybe I read it wrong.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I thought that MP was accounted for on the 911 call when he was asking her about the movie? As in it was a fact that LE new for sure he was on the 911 call? Could be wrong maybe I read it wrong.

The night (or rather morning), SG disappeared, nobody really cared. GC and BB called 911 after SG's call, so an officer came out and executed some kind of superficial search. He met GC and all GC could tell him was about a girl running around and an Asian looking guy with a SUV. And for sure, this was not the stuff for a media hype.
Things only changed, after the GB4 were found. Then, months later, journalists flocked to the area and picked everything up to fill pages, including history of local Indian tribes, menu fro local restaurants and at some point, boyfriends and drivers. So, all of that was spoken at least 7 months ofter SG's disappearance.

 

[Gerontion]

I thought that MP was accounted for on the 911 call when he was asking her about the movie? As in it was a fact that LE new for sure he was on the 911 call? Could be wrong maybe I read it wrong.

Vivalor, I don't think you are right about that. Leastwise, I never read that anywhere. I am thinking the part about the movie came from a TV documentary interview of MP. More "Pak said". TTBOMR (to the best of my recollection).

 

[Vivalor]

Vivalor, I don't think you are right about that. Leastwise, I never read that anywhere. I am thinking the part about the movie came from a TV documentary interview of MP. More "Pak said". TTBOMR (to the best of my recollection).

yeah I could be wrong. Just seemed like he was heard on the 911 call saying something to SG about the movie.

 

[Just K]

MP has told at least a half dozen different stories, some similar, some with the same few basic statements and embellished with new details and some omitting those same details. He is not a believable witness and he does have a basic reason to tell stories that make himself appear more helpful and innocent.

However, MP stated VERY early on that he was the initial contact with Brewer and MP mentioned that SG had another appointment lined up in LI after Brewer. Based on either MP or JB saying that MP set the appointment with Brewer, one would have been expected to believe that MP set the third appointment of the evening (which apparently never happened...unless that was the 15 minute trip - a 3rd client.) Those two stories have now faded into history and are no longer being referenced by any of the key players.

 

[Peter Brendt]

MP has told at least a half dozen different stories, some similar, some with the same few basic statements and embellished with new details and some omitting those same details. He is not a believable witness and he does have a basic reason to tell stories that make himself appear more helpful and innocent.

However, MP stated VERY early on that he was the initial contact with Brewer and MP mentioned that SG had another appointment lined up in LI after Brewer. Based on either MP or JB saying that MP set the appointment with Brewer, one would have been expected to believe that MP set the third appointment of the evening (which apparently never happened...unless that was the 15 minute trip - a 3rd client.) Those two stories have now faded into history and are no longer being referenced by any of the key players.

Very early? As in about seven months later? Because as far as I see it, nobody asked MP anything short after SG's disappearance. Do you have a link with date? That would be helpful.

 

[Gerontion]

yeah I could be wrong. Just seemed like he was heard on the 911 call saying something to SG about the movie.

I tried out doing some of that there "sleuthin'" that goes on around here. If you go to YouTube and hunt down "American Serial Killer True Stories Part 5" you will find MP spinning his tale. Among other things, he talks about the following:
*He relates the "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" story (and confirms that SG is coherent).
*He mentions speaking to SG while she is on the 911 call, he begins to say something about hearing the lady on the other end, but stops himself.
*He says that he has decided SG is trying to set him up.
*He gives his version of coming down the street, after her, and running into GC. According to MP, GC tells MP that he is going to call the cops. MP tells GC, "no, you're not gonna do that."

Take it for what it's worth.

But my next question is: Do we know, other than from GC himself, if he in fact "called the cops"?

 

[WINDSOR]

Seven Months before the investigation became serious.

This is part of the whole problem with this case. It is well known that if LE does not get active and aggressive in solving the case in the first 48 hours, chances of laying criminal charges become very slim.

The fact that we can say SCPD really dropped the ball vis a vis SG is irrelevant at this point. An investigation that starts in earnest seven months after SG disappeared means that almost all potential forensic evidence has been comprimised or eliminared. Peoples' memories are likely dimmed or become selective due to the passage of time.

That is why in terms of SG's death, based on the existing evidence, it is possible to say no crime took place, because no solid evidence exists.

There are reasonable explanations for each of the POI's to be absolved of any wrongdoing. In fact most of the statements we have on record are statements made by potential suspects, and it is logical to assume any disclosures these potential suspects have made, will re-inforce their innocence.

So only two alternatives are left. Some witness has to come forth and say "so and so told me he saw Mr. X kill SG". Or Mr X has to confess.

If I am correct is assuming a crime took place, which led to SG's death, then we are waiting for somebody to talk. If anybody talks they will be putting their own freedom or life in danger. So it is not likely anybody will talk.

As stated before I feel very strongly that MP did things that resulted in SG's death. However at this point there is no evidence with which I can back up this statement with.

The best I can do, is to show that it might have been possible, based on certain time assumptions that MP could have abducted SG. Of course I would not want to send anybody to jail based on possiblities, and assumptions.

I also can say based on the assumption that SG was a victim of foul play, that MP was the one most likely to be involved; but again there is no proof of the foul play.


Unless LE has some sort of tangible proof or evidence they are not likely to lay charges. Previously I had suggested strongly that LE lay misdemeanor sex-trafficing charges agianst MP, with the intent that MP would disclose evidence in return for a plea bargain or even a form of limited immunity.

LE has shown no interest in this approach to date.

Eventually the medical malpractice suit against CPH will come to court, and hopefully lead to some interesting disclosures and testimony under oath. If it is proven that CPH did treat SG, and then turned her over to MP, as CPH is alleged to have said, then the case will take on a new perspective. If however CPH can prove, as he alleges, he never met SG, never treated SG, and never turned her over to MP, this whole case will be over.

In summary,

1) There is no proof SG was a victim of foul play, even though that is a reasonable assumption by many.

2) There are somewhat reasonable explanations to absolve all the individuals who came into contact with SG that night of any wrong-doing.

3) The LE began investigating too long after May 1 to likely find any incriminating evidence.

4) Unless sombody comes forward with new evidence, either as a witness or as a result of CPH's trial, no further progress will be made.

5) If what some posters believe is true, that SCPD has a vested interest in this case, then this case will not be solved regardless of what new evidence is discovered.

6) There does not seem to be the political will, nor the desire by LE, in Suffolk County to solve this case.

7) Not all crimes are solved. In this case we do not even know 100% a crime took place.

For all these reasons and more, I have decided that I have nothing more at this time to add to these discussions and will wait for CPH's trial to take place before posting again.

I want to thank all you sleuthers, those who agreed with me, and those who disagreed with me, for your efforts and dedication to bring justice for Shannan Gilbert. RIP.

WINDSOR

 

[Peter Brendt]

I tried out doing some of that there "sleuthin'" that goes on around here. If you go to YouTube and hunt down "American Serial Killer True Stories Part 5" you will find MP spinning his tale. Among other things, he talks about the following:
*He relates the "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" story (and confirms that SG is coherent).
*He mentions speaking to SG while she is on the 911 call, he begins to say something about hearing the lady on the other end, but stops himself.
*He says that he has decided SG is trying to set him up.
*He gives his version of coming down the street, after her, and running into GC. According to MP, GC tells MP that he is going to call the cops. MP tells GC, "no, you're not gonna do that."

Take it for what it's worth.

But my next question is: Do we know, other than from GC himself, if he in fact "called the cops"?

Look at the date of the ASK pt 5.
And the GC question: Unless he had telepathic abilities and knew he had to wait at the gate for a police officer, he hadn't called ... he must have called him ...

 

[Samantha Spade]

There is no loyalty among criminals, that farce is bs. They look out for number 1 first. hopefully the various depts and agencies are sharing info. Ive seen it work wonders with getting people to start talking.

 

[Vivalor]

I've seen that video before and every time the end breaks my heart. That is all her family has is to place flowers in a dark grey watery marsh with out any real answers.
Does kind of make one wonder why her family hasn't gone after MP or JB any more and has settled on CHP.

 

[Gerontion]

PB, not too far upthread, you asked me:

"What makes you think, MP had even realized, SG had called 911? He was out in the car when SG suddenly started off? And when GC called 911 and told MP so, how could MP come to the idea, that someone with prior drug and prostitution raps would come in trouble for soliciting and drugs from the police's side?"

I have now produced two separate accounts, for you, by MP. The SG timeline by TF, and the ASKp5. In both of them he admits to being well aware that SG was on the phone with 911. So why did GC tell us that after he told MP he had called 911, MP said "you shouldn't have done that, she is going to be in a lot of trouble"? Perhaps GC's memory was a little vague on what actually was said in the conversation that he had w/ MP 7months prior?
GC is all over the map, perhaps due to aging. IMHO. Not to mention, GC could probably see the gate from his house. GC could probably see all the way up the access road that leads to the gate from Ocean Parkway.

And we still have only the time of 5:22am, for GC's call and for BB's call. Now tell me what you know about GC's 911 call. Please.

 

[Just K]

Detectives first began questioning GC in August of 2010. So that was three-four months after SG disappeared....

MP's earliest re-enactments and statements were reported on after mid-December 2010. We don't know if he was interviewed by NJ or NY authorities prior to Dec 2010.

But, SG's family kept her case alive by filing the MP report, going to OB and speaking with residents there.

 

[fred&edna]

Detectives first began questioning GC in August of 2010. So that was three-four months after SG disappeared....

MP's earliest re-enactments and statements were reported on after mid-December 2010. We don't know if he was interviewed by NJ or NY authorities prior to Dec 2010.

But, SG's family kept her case alive by filing the MP report, going to OB and speaking with residents there.

And, I'll add that her family provided LE with SG's phone records... otherwise that 911 call could have remained hidden/unknown.

 

[Peter Brendt]

PB, not too far upthread, you asked me:

"What makes you think, MP had even realized, SG had called 911? He was out in the car when SG suddenly started off? And when GC called 911 and told MP so, how could MP come to the idea, that someone with prior drug and prostitution raps would come in trouble for soliciting and drugs from the police's side?"

I have now produced two separate accounts, for you, by MP. The SG timeline by TF, and the ASKp5. In both of them he admits to being well aware that SG was on the phone with 911. So why did GC tell us that after he told MP he had called 911, MP said "you shouldn't have done that, she is going to be in a lot of trouble"? Perhaps GC's memory was a little vague on what actually was said in the conversation that he had w/ MP 7months prior?
GC is all over the map, perhaps due to aging. IMHO. Not to mention, GC could probably see the gate from his house. GC could probably see all the way up the access road that leads to the gate from Ocean Parkway.

And we still have only the time of 5:22am, for GC's call and for BB's call. Now tell me what you know about GC's 911 call. Please.

About the call, I know as much as everyone here. Base line: SG knocked on his floor when he was shaving to go out early for some kind of car show. He opened the door. And she said something like "they want to kill me"

Then, there are two different variants to the story:
a.) The first version was, he told her to go in the house, he would call the police. Admittedly, I had always my doubts, because people don't let disheveled girl who scream "they want to kill me" in their houses. Especially if the girl behaves otherwise erratic and can't even say who "they" mifgt would be.

b.) In a later version, GC admitted, he didn't let her in the house, but otherwise, it's the same story. Only that her told her to stay at the door.

Then both versions went together again. MP arrives, SG hides under the boat and runs then off. And GC goes to the gate to wait for the police.

On the behavioral side, I can see, that he first worded the story to look good (even the older version happened ab. 7 months after the incident). The newer version is, IMO, what really happened. GC is not "all over the map". He basically told always the same story with the exception of that one detail about SG telling to go in the house. He became admittedly a little bit more careful about his wordings, after JS had his little outbreak and I suspect, behind the scenes, the old OB feuds had a new print run.
<modsnip>

So that is, what I know, what I observed and what I guess.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Detectives first began questioning GC in August of 2010. So that was three-four months after SG disappeared....

MP's earliest re-enactments and statements were reported on after mid-December 2010. We don't know if he was interviewed by NJ or NY authorities prior to Dec 2010.

But, SG's family kept her case alive by filing the MP report, going to OB and speaking with residents there.

In fact, since GC met the officer at the gate, the officer would have asked him already back then, what happened. But all versions, we have, were only published after the media frenzy broke out after the discovery of the GB4. So what we got, wasn't what GC told back then to the police, it was what he told 7 months later to the media.

 

[Peter Brendt]

And, I'll add that her family provided LE with SG's phone records... otherwise that 911 call could have remained hidden/unknown.

True, but the media attention came only after December, mostly early January. And the public leanred only then details, most of us, who live outside the reach of the local media hadn't even heard about SG before the GB4 media hype. Remember the dumb Dormer statement? "There is no reason to assume there is a serial killer..." Wow! That was during the first media rush and the only background story, then spread by the media was SG. Back then media reported also, the GB4 were found when they searched for SG, which as we know now, wasn't the case.

 

[fred&edna]

True, but the media attention came only after December, mostly early January. And the public leanred only then details, most of us, who live outside the reach of the local media hadn't even heard about SG before the GB4 media hype. Remember the dumb Dormer statement? "There is no reason to assume there is a serial killer..." Wow! That was during the first media rush and the only background story, then spread by the media was SG. Back then media reported also, the GB4 were found when they searched for SG, which as we know now, wasn't the case.

Yes, I do believe you're correct about the December time period for media involvement.

I wasn't following the current focus of the discussion (media info) with my post. (I likely had some sort of ADD moment ) I was just thinking how the knowledge of SG's 911 call changes my views on many aspects of this case.