POLL ADDED Connect The Dots-Working theories thread #2

[cypress]

That's an excellent post, Cypress. I hold a similar view of Terri and the dynamic between her and DY and KH. I'm just not quite ready to give her a complete pass. Like citigirl, I too think there might be a back story that hasn't come to light yet.

You said yourself that sex is Terri's vice, and I definitely agree. She took to MC quickly enough, and I'd wager her relationship with the LS was about more than shrubs and weeds. A MFH plot is either a very obvious joke or it's serious. I don't see room for a misunderstanding. Then again, maybe he's an immigrant. If so, the humor might not have translated well. He might've been a little unsure whether she was joking, and when the news came out about Kyron, he freaked. It's could happen.

Forget about the LS. Getting back to Terri and sex, is it possible she succumbed to the advances of another man? Someone she met at the gym, maybe. Is she so powerless to her vice that she went and got herself tangled up in a dangerous situation? I dunno, but that's where my thoughts have been for awhile.

Honestly, if Terri and Landscaper had a somewhat joking conversation about offing Kaine because he was, in Terri's view, being a prick or insensitive, then it probably seemed a lot less funny after Kyron disappeared. If Landscaper was in any way in trouble with the law, he might have been compelled to see it as a lot less funny. Should Kyron's disappearance change the tenor of a conversation had seven months prior, though?

Also IMHO, a lot of discussions about Terri involve circular reasoning, and I think LE, Desiree, and Kaine are employing this type of fallacious logic.

I try to resist comparisons because each case is unique, but Terri reminds me so much of Brenda van Dam.

Lastly, IMHO, either Terri did this alone or someone completely unrelated to Terri via any nefarious connection but known to the school and Kyron (a SO or RSO) abducted and killed him. IMHO, there's no middle ground. The more accomplices LE, Desiree, and Kaine imply or peel out of the woodwork, the less likely it is that Terri's involved. If Kaine was missing, then okay, maybe Terri could've convinced one or several friends that Kaine was abusing her and she had no way out. FWIW, I'm not saying she's accused him of being abusive, but I think that would make a more compelling argument for some women. This, however, is not that kind of situation, and I think it would be extremely difficult for Terri to find even one person willing to help her abduct, harm, hide, and/or murder an innocent child, much less a gang of child abductors and murderers. This type of thing would've taken resources and a lot of planning. The agencies involved in this case are well into the double digits, and with as careless as Terri has been with her electronic correspondence, I find it extremely difficult to believe she was genius enough to leave not a shred of evidence revealing the names of her accomplices. In many ways, this includes Dede, because Dede didn't come to the forefront of this investigation until after she stayed with Terri (some three weeks after Kyron went missing). So, in effect, she came to LE's attention not because of any questionable correspondence or any real evidence but because she befriended Terri.

Again, and as I've said many times, the theory is guiding the quest for evidence as opposed to the evidence guiding the theory. All IMHO.

 

[gitana1]

Cypress, you would make an excellent defense attorney for Terri. I hope Houze takes note of your post. You do make it all fit. I cannot think of outstanding pieces of the puzzle that won't fit into your explanation at the moment. We will have to see if LE has other pieces we don't know about.

I agree. Although I do not agree with much of Cypress' theory (I have one main reason and other smaller reasons to believe wholeheartedly that TH planned and did something terrible with Kyron), I nevertheless found Cypress' post to be intelligent and compelling and an interesting theory. Houze would do well to take note of Cypress' post. Thought provoking post, Cypress. This is why I love me some Websleuths!

 

[Beatrice]

She didn't have liposuction, but she stated on her Facebook page that she'd like to have liposuction.

To me, it is obvious she has breast implants.

(She was probably feeling in competition with Desiree's good looks.)

 

[gitana1]

I've been doing some thinking about this case last night and this morning about motivation on Terri's part. I used to think that if Terri did this, it was specifically to hurt Kaine or get back at Kaine. And I still think that to a certain extent. But as I was thinking, a few things occurred to me.

One thing that has come out is that Terri may have thought Kaine was having an affair. What if this "affair" wasn't a real affair? What if this affair was an exaggeration of the relationship Kaine was having with Desiree? I know we're not allowed to sleuth them. But it's always struck me as odd how well they get along, and how much they seem to agree about Terri. I still admire that they get along, don't get me wrong on that. I don't suspect them.

I just wonder if Kaine was getting along well with Desiree, but giving Terri the cold shoulder as their marriage was falling apart. Would that anger Terri enough to want to get back at him? I know if my husband was getting along swimmingly with his ex, but was treating me like crap, I would definitely think something was up, maybe even an affair between them.

I wonder if that was part of her motivation, and then something else. Maybe Kyron did find out something, like a plot against his dad, or something else that would make Terri look bad and any future divorce end badly for her, or any future chances at a job look bad for her.

And the biggest thing I wonder is if she was more worried about what Kyron might say to Desiree and Tony than Kaine. Maybe she felt that she had control of him at their house, and that he wouldn't tell Kaine anything. But maybe she worried more what he might say to Desiree and Tony, and if Kaine was getting along better with Desiree than Terri, if they chose to tell him what Kyron told them and he believed it, that would only make things worse for Terri in the end. After all, the DAY Kyron was supposed to go to Desiree and Tony's, he disappeared. That can't just be a coincidence.

And the day he was supposed to go them, there was the science fair. What perfect way to get rid of him, blame the school and win a lawsuit, and keep whatever secret it was that he found out away from Kaine, Desiree, and Tony, AND get back at Kaine and Desiree for having such a better relationship than Terri and Kaine were having.

So in sum, Terri couldn't stand how well Kaine and Desiree were getting along, exaggerates that into an affair in her mind and maybe to other people when she talks about it, and then Kyron finds out something he shouldn't, and she decides he has to die to protect her secret from his bio parents, and at the same time, she'd get back at those bio parents and the school that won't give her a job because of her DUI.

I do think family dynamics will play into this. I think a lot of what we don't know is family stuff that just hasn't been talked about yet. I think it's going to play largely into what happened to Kyron.

I think you have hit on some excellent points. I have never found DY and Kaine's relationship as exes, as it has been discussed and viewed in the context of this case, as strange, though. I get the sense that they are acting, and have acted (for the most part since their divorce), like mature people who put aside their personal feelings about one another for the sake of their kid. The fact that there is not a history of custody battles, that DY refused to uproot Kyron after she got well, that she seemed to tolerate TH, even though she states TH had an affair with Kaine, and that DY even had TH as a FB friend, etc., all of that supports my feelings.
But, I don't think TH understood how they didn't give in to petty jealousy and anger like so many people do (and believe me, they do). I agree with Cypress that TH was probably insecure. I think she may have been the type (think, not know), who would have felt more comfortable in the middle of warring exes, than in a situation where the parents tried to make the best of it. So if TH became more and more insecure in the marriage or lost feeling for Kaine, or whatever, I could see her resenting Kaine and DY's civility towards one another and misinterpreting that. Getting rid of Kyron would act to punish and harm Kaine while also hurting this ex that never faded into the background the way TH possibly thought she should have.

 

[Calliope]

I think this is one of the best posts I've read, Cypress. Well done.

Absolutely. I couldn't add a thing. I think she nailed it.

 

[wondering1]

I agree. Although I do not agree with much of Cypress' theory (I have one main reason and other smaller reasons to believe wholeheartedly that TH planned and did something terrible with Kyron), I nevertheless found Cypress' post to be intelligent and compelling and an interesting theory. Houze would do well to take note of Cypress' post. Thought provoking post, Cypress. This is why I love me some Websleuths!

I actually agree that it is quite plausible IF some other apparent character traits and factors were not in the mix. Probably some of the same ones you allude to. My perception of those other traits and factors makes this theory less plausible in my mind. But, otherwise, I would totally agree with Cypress, and thank her (?) for sharing her POV.

 

[Calliope]

That's an excellent post, Cypress. I hold a similar view of Terri and the dynamic between her and DY and KH. I'm just not quite ready to give her a complete pass. Like citigirl, I too think there might be a back story that hasn't come to light yet.

You said yourself that sex is Terri's vice, and I definitely agree. She took to MC quickly enough, and I'd wager her relationship with the LS was about more than shrubs and weeds. A MFH plot is either a very obvious joke or it's serious. I don't see room for a misunderstanding. Then again, maybe he's an immigrant. If so, the humor might not have translated well. He might've been a little unsure whether she was joking, and when the news came out about Kyron, he freaked. It's could happen.

Forget about the LS. Getting back to Terri and sex, is it possible she succumbed to the advances of another man? Someone she met at the gym, maybe. Is she so powerless to her vice that she went and got herself tangled up in a dangerous situation? I dunno, but that's where my thoughts have been for awhile.

I've thought for some time now that her online presence may have played a role. I think she may have brought someone dangerous into their life through her internet connections.

 

[wondering1]

Honestly, if Terri and Landscaper had a somewhat joking conversation about offing Kaine

excessively sbm!

One of the problems that I have is thinking that she was joking, like even *I mean it but would never do it,* joking. I think there was some level of seriousness to it, even if she never intended to carry it through. kwim? I base that on my perception of her history with men. Actually looking for and finding an out, rather than venting and staying in.

 

[cluciano63]

I am of the opinion that Desiree and Kaine did not have much of a good relationship over the years and are just dealing with this situation together because they have no choice. Just an opinion.

 

[Calliope]

excessively sbm!

One of the problems that I have is thinking that she was joking, like even *I mean it but would never do it,* joking. I think there was some level of seriousness to it, even if she never intended to carry it through. kwim? I base that on my perception of her history with men. Actually looking for and finding an out, rather than venting and staying in.

Terri strikes me as someone who mouths off and 'vents' ... and often at inappropriate times and in an inappropriate manner. I think she is someone who can and does say a lot of things in the heat of the moment that she really doesn't mean. I know people like that (some very close to me). It's their way of blowing off steam. None of them are violent, although you may not think so by listening to them when they really go off. I'm betting Terri was PO'd at Kaine and it showed. It doesn't mean she really wanted Kaine murdered, IMO.

 

[Calliope]

I am of the opinion that Desiree and Kaine did not have much of a good relationship over the years and are just dealing with this situation together because they have no choice. Just an opinion.

Wasn't there a neighbor of Desiree's posting here at one point who said pretty much the same thing ?

 

[cluciano63]

Wasn't there a neighbor of Desiree's posting here at one point who said pretty much the same thing ?

I don't recall that, but it seems like Terri was the one who was in daily touch with Desiree, was on facebook with her, Kaine does not show Desiree as a "friend" on FB, etc...I doubt Desiree ever really forgave Kaine.

 

[bessie]

I think you have hit on some excellent points. I have never found DY and Kaine's relationship as exes, as it has been discussed and viewed in the context of this case, as strange, though. I get the sense that they are acting, and have acted (for the most part since their divorce), like mature people who put aside their personal feelings about one another for the sake of their kid. The fact that there is not a history of custody battles, that DY refused to uproot Kyron after she got well, that she seemed to tolerate TH, even though she states TH had an affair with Kaine, and that DY even had TH as a FB friend, etc., all of that supports my feelings.
But, I don't think TH understood how they didn't give in to petty jealousy and anger like so many people do (and believe me, they do). I agree with Cypress that TH was probably insecure. I think she may have been the type (think, not know), who would have felt more comfortable in the middle of warring exes, than in a situation where the parents tried to make the best of it. So if TH became more and more insecure in the marriage or lost feeling for Kaine, or whatever, I could see her resenting Kaine and DY's civility towards one another and misinterpreting that. Getting rid of Kyron would act to punish and harm Kaine while also hurting this ex that never faded into the background the way TH possibly thought she should have.

Any thoughts on the timing?

 

[bessie]

Honestly, if Terri and Landscaper had a somewhat joking conversation about offing Kaine because he was, in Terri's view, being a prick or insensitive, then it probably seemed a lot less funny after Kyron disappeared. If Landscaper was in any way in trouble with the law, he might have been compelled to see it as a lot less funny. Should Kyron's disappearance change the tenor of a conversation had seven months prior, though?

Also IMHO, a lot of discussions about Terri involve circular reasoning, and I think LE, Desiree, and Kaine are employing this type of fallacious logic.

I try to resist comparisons because each case is unique, but Terri reminds me so much of Brenda van Dam.

Lastly, IMHO, either Terri did this alone or someone completely unrelated to Terri via any nefarious connection but known to the school and Kyron (a SO or RSO) abducted and killed him. IMHO, there's no middle ground. The more accomplices LE, Desiree, and Kaine imply or peel out of the woodwork, the less likely it is that Terri's involved. If Kaine was missing, then okay, maybe Terri could've convinced one or several friends that Kaine was abusing her and she had no way out. FWIW, I'm not saying she's accused him of being abusive, but I think that would make a more compelling argument for some women. This, however, is not that kind of situation, and I think it would be extremely difficult for Terri to find even one person willing to help her abduct, harm, hide, and/or murder an innocent child, much less a gang of child abductors and murderers. This type of thing would've taken resources and a lot of planning. The agencies involved in this case are well into the double digits, and with as careless as Terri has been with her electronic correspondence, I find it extremely difficult to believe she was genius enough to leave not a shred of evidence revealing the names of her accomplices. In many ways, this includes Dede, because Dede didn't come to the forefront of this investigation until after she stayed with Terri (some three weeks after Kyron went missing). So, in effect, she came to LE's attention not because of any questionable correspondence or any real evidence but because she befriended Terri.

Again, and as I've said many times, the theory is guiding the quest for evidence as opposed to the evidence guiding the theory. All IMHO.

So you think Terri might have acted alone? Wouldn't that require a rather high degree of cunning? If she's capable of removing Kyron from school sight unseen, then doing God knows what before disposing of his body, and stopping at two different FM's in between, all within a pretty close timeframe and with a toddler in tow, then isn't she clever enough to conceal or eliminate an electronic trail?

 

[cypress]

So you think Terri might have acted alone? Wouldn't that require a rather high degree of cunning? If she's capable of removing Kyron from school sight unseen, then doing God knows what before disposing of his body, and stopping at two different FM's in between, all within a pretty close timeframe and with a toddler in tow, then isn't she clever enough to conceal or eliminate an electronic trail?

IMHO, it's unlikely Terri could've convinced multiple people to help her abduct and murder Kyron or conceal him for some unknown reason (although a claim of abuse is most likely, IMHO). IMHO, if she convinced someone that Kyron was being abused, then the person holding him would have basically good, if misguided, intentions. Given the coverage of this case, I don't understand how a basically good person can continue to hold Kyron against his will. IMHO, by now, they would've cracked and come forward to tell all they know, or they would've dropped him off somewhere so he could be picked up.

The other alternatives for Terri being involved are that she either abducted and murdered him alone or she had help. IMHO, it's extremely unlikely that she found someone to help her abduct and murder a child. Dede is, IMHO, a red herring. If she needed help to carry this out, then that takes away from her cunning. She sensed that she wasn't competent enough to do this alone. However, in my very, very strong opinion, something about her timeline prohibits her from doing this. IMHO, it's the amount of unverified time, and IMHO, it's less than an hour. IMHO, the reason the accomplice theory is so firmly rooted in Desiree's mind (and IMHO LE's collective mind as well) is because Terri can only be guilty/involved if she had help.

Dede's revelation about LE's line of questioning is telling, IMHO. Dede said LE wanted information that Terri was responsible or she had knowledge of it. This tells me LE isn't at all sure what happened, and that's very telling in terms of the context of this investigation, IMHO.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I agree. Although I do not agree with much of Cypress' theory (I have one main reason and other smaller reasons to believe wholeheartedly that TH planned and did something terrible with Kyron), I nevertheless found Cypress' post to be intelligent and compelling and an interesting theory. Houze would do well to take note of Cypress' post. Thought provoking post, Cypress. This is why I love me some Websleuths!

Above BBM..

Hi gitana, I am interested to know what your main reason along with the other small reasons that you believe wholeheartedly[as I do] that Terri not only planned an abduction but had nefarious plans for Kyron rather than any type of "rescue" of Kyron as has been theorized?

I think I have an idea of what these reasons possibly are but would love to hear your opinion on these if you would like to share... TIA

 

[MarieFaith]

I agree. Although I do not agree with much of Cypress' theory (I have one main reason and other smaller reasons to believe wholeheartedly that TH planned and did something terrible with Kyron), I nevertheless found Cypress' post to be intelligent and compelling and an interesting theory. Houze would do well to take note of Cypress' post. Thought provoking post, Cypress. This is why I love me some Websleuths!

Above BBM..

Hi gitana, I am interested to know what your main reason along with the other small reasons that you believe wholeheartedly[as I do] that Terri not only planned an abduction but had nefarious plans for Kyron rather than any type of "rescue" of Kyron as has been theorized?

I think I have an idea of what these reasons possibly are but would love to hear your opinion on these if you would like to share... TIA

I've believed Terri to be responsible, but found the theory by Cypress to be very compelling and thought provoking.

But what about the RO that she hasn't challenged? Cypress, you didn't mention that. And, Gitana, I suspect this is your main reason for holding to the view that Terri really is guilty,

Would love to hear more from both sleuths.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I've believed Terri to be responsible, but found the theory by Cypress to be very compelling and thought provoking.

But what about the RO that she hasn't challenged? Cypress, you didn't mention that. And, Gitana, I suspect this is your main reason for holding to the view that Terri really is guilty,

Would love to hear more from both sleuths.

Above BBM.. Excellent point, MarieFaith... There are so many different, unusual, and strange, not to mention dont-add-up aspects of this case that I often have some in the back of my head from focusing intently on other aspects...

IMO the RO cannot be explained away, that is if Terri is NOT INVOLVED...

 

[jadejazzkayla]

IMO the RO cannot be explained away, that is if Terri is NOT INVOLVED...

sbm...smooth - do you mean the contents of the ro? like when kaine wrote the cops gave him probable cause terri was involved in kyron's disappearance and the mfh?

or do you mean the conpempt charge brought about regarding the ro?

I always get those two things intertwined in my brain when thinking about the ro.

 

[SusieMom]

Regarding the RO, I'd think its primarily the fact that she hasn't challenged it.

I mean, imagine if you were COMPLETELY INNOCENT... how much would you take? What would it be that would make you stand up and say ENOUGH.. I'm being accused of something I had nothing to do with, I understand that you are convinced otherwise but I AM INNOCENT and you CANNOT do this to me, I will not ALLOW you to do this to me or to my daughter.

For me, if I were innocent losing access to my child, not being able to visit with her, tuck her in at night, take her to the park..all of that stuff would not be something I'd just take. Nobody would be able to keep me from dragging KH to a judge and demanding that he put up some evidence or let me see my kid. If I were innocent there would be NOBODY who could keep me from my child for this amount of time, a few days till I could find a lawyer to make it happen, maybe, but no longer than that.

Why hasn't Terri done this? To me its hard to find an answer except one that involves at least some level of participation that she KNOWS they can prove. Either participation to the point that the she doesn't have a chance before a judge or confirmed behavior after the crime (such as hiding her involvement or knowledge) that would ruin her chances. I think one or the other likely exists. Even if she is guilty but knows LE can't prove it, wouldn't she take a chance to be able to have access to Baby K for a short time at least?