POLL: Has the DNA evidence changed your theory on who killed Jonbenet?

[magnolia]

Just jumping in here. I think Patsy loved her. I think she loved Berke. Berke says he remembers gettiing lots of hugs and kisses from Patsy. But she had been up for 16 hours. She had an exhausting schedule. They had just had a 40th birthday party for her. They were getting ready to leave at 6:00 the next morning for Charlevoix which Patsy did not want to do but was coaxed into it by John. Then they were going on the Big Red Boat in Florida.

*Snipped*

You're right. Patsy was exhausted. John was probably very tired. Most everyone is near exhaustion during the Christmas holiday season.

This was a perfect time for the killer to maneuver around the house without waking a family member.

Short of a bomb going on, I doubt anything would have awakened them.

 

[LinasK]

LinasK....would not someone have noticed evidence of this "game" or is this the first night her Dad "played" that game with her?

One possible sign of physical abuse is something available for public viewing (no I don't have a link) which I never noticed until the tabloids pointed it out, now I spot it every time I see that picture of JB. In the famous photo of her parading around like a vegas showgirl in the gold outfit with the huge feathers in the back (one of the most disgusting photos of JB in my book:sick, there is clearly a bruise on JB's inner left arm. Possibly an accident, or possible evidence of abuse.

 

[TexMex]

Because of the bedwetting & soiling, and maybe she even knew of the incest, JB was no longer Patsy's perfect little girl.

OK, Linas but doesn't EVERY parent know that is something kids eventually grow out of? I mean grown folks aren't wetting beds and soiling themselves (at least til it's Depends time:chicken....

 

[BBB167893]

I don't know. My Mum worked from sunup to sundown, literally, but was still alert enough to know when I was sneaking a midnight snack.

OK, Linas but doesn't EVERY parent know that is something kids eventually grow out of? I mean grown folks aren't wetting beds and soiling themselves (at least til it's Depends time)

That's very funny! But when you have a kid who, in prior years, had been doing okay, and suddenly goes back to the level of a baby, something is WRONG.

 

[TexMex]

He didn't call 911 until many, many hours later. I think the Ramsey's were hoping somebody they'd invited into the house, even Linda Arndt would find JB before they did. Besides they were hoping that they'd staged it well-enough to convince people of the intruder theory, which apparently they succeeded at.

Also, the Ramsey's wouldn't take the police department's lie detector tests, only ones they privately selected months later, and even then it took Patsy 3 tries to pass!

One more thing to add: it's also been suggested by Patsy's mother that Patsy's father may have molested JB.

But LinasK:

G-pa's DNA ain't in the drawers!

No matter what RDI theories are proposed (now it's Grandpa!) there is male DNA on a dead girl's body in three spots....THAT trumps the SPECULATION of Mad Mommy, Pervert Daddy, Jealous Brother. It is DNA.

Is it so hard to believe a stranger saw this kid all dolled up, became obsessed with her and went to claim her as his Christmas Present? She screams, he kills her, leaves her in the basement and leaves?

 

[LinasK]

OK, Linas but doesn't EVERY parent know that is something kids eventually grow out of? I mean grown folks aren't wetting beds and soiling themselves (at least til it's Depends time:chicken....

Well unless JB had some form of autism as other posters suggested, but there is no evidence of, you'd think a normal 6-year-old would have control of her bladder and bowel functions, except for occasionally getting so involved in playing they don't listen to their bodies when they have to pee. ( I know my own daughter toilet trained by 31/2). Bedwetting and soiling are signs of sexual abuse, perhaps the child regresses because it's the one thing they can exert some control over, when they can't control the abuse from happening, or it's been suggested that wetting/soiling onesself is to make yourself unattractive to your perpetrator. JB did tell someone she didn't feel pretty.

 

[BBB167893]

No matter what RDI theories are proposed (now it's Grandpa!) there is male DNA on a dead girl's body in three spots....THAT trumps the SPECULATION of Mad Mommy, Pervert Daddy, Jealous Brother. It is DNA.

If it were to br proven that it was left that night, it would mean something to us.

Is it so hard to believe a stranger saw this kid all dolled up, became obsessed with her and went to claim her as his Cristmas Present? She screams, he kills her, leaves her in the basement and leaves?

But that's not what had to have happened, Tex. So, yeah, for me, it's damn hard.

 

[Medea]

But LinasK:

Is it so hard to believe a stranger saw this kid all dolled up, became obsessed with her and went to claim her as his Cristmas Present? She screams, he kills her, leaves her in the basement and leaves?

No, that isn't hard to believe at all.

But when you add in that she was garroted and kinda sorta restrained, yet not strangled mind you, even though the cord is around her neck, but she's bashed in the head, and the perp finds and leaves all of his material in the house except the murder weapon, that sometime before or after the attack he writes a rambling ransom note with asking for the exact amount of Ramsey's bonus, that the victim's mother apparently believes this perp also fed her daughter pineapple some time during the attack and then, to top it off, the intruder redresses her and puts a blanket on top of her.

That is what is hard to believe.

 

[Solace]

Well unless JB had some form of autism as other posters suggested, but there is no evidence of, you'd think a normal 6-year-old would have control of her bladder and bowel functions, except for occasionally getting so involved in playing they don't listen to their bodies when they have to pee. ( I know my own daughter toilet trained by 31/2). Bedwetting and soiling are signs of sexual abuse, perhaps the child regresses because it's the one thing they can exert some control over, when they can't control the abuse from happening, or it's been suggested that wetting/soiling onesself is to make yourself unattractive to your perpetrator. JB did tell someone she didn't feel pretty.

Linask,

You have to remember that Patsy succumbs to cancer when JonBenet is very little and the grandmother comes in and DOES not teach her anything. When Patsy is better, she is dealing with a child that has not learned as your child did and is constantly damp and has rashes all the time.

 

[LinasK]

But LinasK:

G-pa's DNA ain't in the drawers!

No matter what RDI theories are proposed (now it's Grandpa!) there is male DNA on a dead girl's body in three spots....THAT trumps the SPECULATION of Mad Mommy, Pervert Daddy, Jealous Brother. It is DNA.

Is it so hard to believe a stranger saw this kid all dolled up, became obsessed with her and went to claim her as his Cristmas Present? She screams, he kills her, leaves her in the basement and leaves?

No, but Daddy's shirt fibers are in her panties,(and Patsy's fibers are inside the duct tape on JB's mouth) that to me trumps foreign unexplained DNA on the outsides of her leggings. I think John became obsessed with images of her dressed up as a grown woman (think the black and white outfit with the black hat) and he took her for his own.

Besides the stranger would have had to wait hours for them to return, there is no physical evidence of an intruder- the spider web on the window sill was unbroken, and why write the ransom note, and why not take her from the house? (And he used the Ramsey's flashlight, notepad and pen, but brings his own pineapple???) The pieces for a ransom/kidnapping/molestation/murder don't fit. Most pedophiles have totally different MO's than kidnappers and from murderers. Besides, why would the neighbors have heard JB scream, but not her own parents or even Burke????? A Ramsey coverup, especially given their stonewalling actions surrounding the murder seem far more likely.

 

[Solace]

Well unless JB had some form of autism as other posters suggested.


This is a perfect example of posters being misinformed. No offense to you Linask, but it shows just how much people distort things when they are misinformed.

 

[LI_Mom]

Well unless JB had some form of autism as other posters suggested, but there is no evidence of, you'd think a normal 6-year-old would have control of her bladder and bowel functions, except for occasionally getting so involved in playing they don't listen to their bodies when they have to pee. ( I know my own daughter toilet trained by 31/2). Bedwetting and soiling are signs of sexual abuse, perhaps the child regresses because it's the one thing they can exert some control over, when they can't control the abuse from happening, or it's been suggested that wetting/soiling onesself is to make yourself unattractive to your perpetrator. JB did tell someone she didn't feel pretty.

But bedwetting is NOT always a sign of abuse or trauma.

My son wet the bed every night almost until he was 7 or 8....

Combine too many fluids after dinner, a kid who will not accept a wakeup call for the toilet PLUS a child who is a very heavy sleeper & you end up with a soggy kid.

 

[LI_Mom]

Well unless JB had some form of autism as other posters suggested, but there is no evidence of, you'd think a normal 6-year-old would have control of her bladder and bowel functions, except for occasionally getting so involved in playing they don't listen to their bodies when they have to pee. ( I know my own daughter toilet trained by 31/2). Bedwetting and soiling are signs of sexual abuse, perhaps the child regresses because it's the one thing they can exert some control over, when they can't control the abuse from happening, or it's been suggested that wetting/soiling onesself is to make yourself unattractive to your perpetrator. JB did tell someone she didn't feel pretty.

But bedwetting is NOT always a sign of abuse or trauma.

My son wet the bed every night almost until he was 7 or 8....

Combine too many fluids after dinner, a kid who will not accept a wakeup call for the toilet PLUS a child who is a very heavy sleeper & you end up with a soggy kid.

 

[TexMex]

He didn't call 911 until many, many hours later. I think the Ramsey's were hoping somebody they'd invited into the house, even Linda Arndt would find JB before they did. Besides they were hoping that they'd staged it well-enough to convince people of the intruder theory, which apparently they succeeded at.

Also, the Ramsey's wouldn't take the police department's lie detector tests, only ones they privately selected months later, and even then it took Patsy 3 tries to pass!

One more thing to add: it's also been suggested by Patsy's mother that Patsy's father may have molested JB.

rockymtnnews:

Gelb's findings were reviewed and confirmed by Cleve Baxter, founder of the Central Intelligence Agency's polygraph unit and creator of polygraph scoring techniques considered industry standards.

The Ramseys were given what are known as single-issue examinations, where all questions in a test are designed to mean the same thing, Gelb said. Each test took two to three hours. The results cannot be skewed by drugs, so no screening was done, Gelb said.

The tests are 97-98 percent accurate, said Robert Lee, director of operations for Axciton Systems, which makes the computerized polygraph instrument used by Gelb.

The first test asked the following: Did you inflict any of the injuries that caused the death of JonBenet? Regarding JonBenet, did you inflict any of the injuries that caused her death? Were those injuries that resulted in JonBenet's death inflicted by you?

In the second test, Gelb asked: Do you know for sure who killed JonBenet? Regarding JonBenet, do you know for sure who killed her? Are you concealing the identity of the person who killed JonBenet?

Patsy Ramsey was given an additional test about the ransom note: Did you write the ransom note that was found in your house? Regarding the ransom note, did you write it? Is that your handwriting on the ransom note found in your house?

"Final conclusion: Based on extensive polygraph examination, neither John nor Patsy Ramsey were attempting deception when they gave the indicated answers to the relevant questions," Gelb said.

Baxter said his review confirmed Gelb's conclusion. "I could not fool the polygraph examination myself if a serious issue were involved. And I've been in the field a long time," he said.

..........the new DNA findings only confirm Gelb's findings, IMO.

 

[TexMex]

No, but Daddy's shirt fibers are in her panties,(and Patsy's fibers are inside the duct tape on JB's mouth) that to me trumps foreign unexplained DNA on the outsides of her leggings. I think John became obsessed with images of her dressed up as a grown woman (think the black and white outfit with the black hat) and he took her for his own.

Besides the stranger would have had to wait hours for them to return, there is no physical evidence of an intruder- the spider web on the window sill was unbroken, and why write the ransom note, and why not take her from the house? (And he used the Ramsey's flashlight, notepad and pen, but brings his own pineapple???) The pieces for a ransom/kidnapping/molestation/murder don't fit. Most pedophiles have totally different MO's than kidnappers and from murderers. Besides, why would the neighbors have heard JB scream, but not her own parents or even Burke????? A Ramsey coverup, especially given their stonewalling actions surrounding the murder seem far more likely.

Hi LinasK

Per the Thomas book...the duct tape was torn off and was sticky side up in the house where any fiber could stick to it. It is their home so it is not suprising to find their fibers in it. It IS suprising to find male DNA in a six year old girl's underwear, JMO.

Spider web stuff has been debunked.


I don't like the pagent stuff either, but I don't think it makes her mother a monster or har daddy a pervert.

 

[BBB167893]

Anybody can beat a polygraph, Tex. I can tell you how. Don't waste our time with that nonsense. Nobody puts any stock in them. It's not even admissable in court, so why bother?

The book "And Justice For Some" can outline all you need to know.

Spider web stuff has been debunked.

The hell it has.

 

[TexMex]

Anybody can beat a polygraph, Tex. I can tell you how. Don't waste our time with that nonsense. Nobody puts any stock in them. It's not even admissable in court, so why bother?

The book "And Justice For Some" can outline all you need to know.

Not admissable, true but used all the time nonetheless Dave.

JMO but the results are pretty much validated when you find male DNA not from the Ramsey's in three spots on a dead six year old girl. It is not their DNA, they passed LDT saying they did not kill nor know who did.

 

[LI_Mom]

rockymtnnews:

Gelb's findings were reviewed and confirmed by Cleve Baxter, founder of the Central Intelligence Agency's polygraph unit and creator of polygraph scoring techniques considered industry standards.

Here's a little info on Cleve Baxter:

http://skepdic.com/plants.html

 

[BBB167893]

Not admissable, true but used all the time nonetheless Dave.

Well, they shouldn't be.

JMO but the results are pretty much validated when you find male DNA not from the Ramsey's in three spots on a dead six year old girl.

DNA is everywhere, Tex. The more the science advances, the more they find. I can think of a case where DNA was found not belonging to a killer and he still killed her.

It is not their DNA, they passed LDT saying they did not kill nor know who did.

Not their DNA, yet no idea when or how it was left and a bought and paid for tets that I could beat. I'll even tell you how, if you want.

 

[LI_Mom]

Not admissable, true but used all the time nonetheless Dave.

JMO but the results are pretty much validated when you find male DNA not from the Ramsey's in three spots on a dead six year old girl. It is not their DNA, they passed LDT saying they did not kill nor know who did.

How valid can results be IF you don't test ALL the objects you know the attacker had to handle?

How valid can results be IF you won't even bother to get samples from the boys she was playing with so you know for a FACT that the dna is from some unknown person?