Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[LINative13]

No. Not in this case. A craigslist escort is found dead in an area where another ten escorts are found murdered. I'm pretty sure that, given that scenario, the most likely cause of death for that craigslist escort is murder. The fact that she thought she was in mortal danger and even in her highly illegal circumstance decided to call the police - that is simply an absolute indication that she feared for her life.

The thing that makes this case odd is that Shannan Gilbert got away for a moment. She obviously saw evidence of some sort - something that lead her to believe she was in the hands of one or several killers.

And of course, it seems crazy that MP would drive her there and JB would plan to kill her while MP was waiting. Of course, that's not the case. What happened is probably one of three options:

1. JB is LISK and he was cultivating a john-escort relationship with Shannan. He did not plan to kill her that night (or ever) but she somehow stumbled upon evidence - films, trophies....something...that lead her to believe he was a killer. She was a very intelligent girl, albeit troubled, she may have suddenly put the pieces together before anyone else did.

2. JB and MP (and possibly someone else) is a team. MP gets a good deal of money for catering to someone's insane fetish (I don't even want to speculate). Had Shannan not temporarily escaped, nobody would have known about her whereabouts - MP wouldn't have told, JB would never be mentioned, her body would never have been found (at least not until many years later).

3. MP is LISK. This is less likely because he's not the one with properties all over Long Island, so he has no reason for a particular attachment to the place.

Exactly sweetheart. You just proved my point, slipping and falling is simpler than lured out to a murder ground where a team of killers was waiting, partying for a few hours, escaping, knocking on doors, getting chased, etc.

 

[Just K]

Why wouldnt Pak just goto JB if they wanted a contact? Wouldnt Pak go to someone that he actually had contact with that night?

Because, Pak knew CPH or knew that he was there or had "treated" Shanan, perhaps?

 

[Just K]

I ve heard conflicting answers to these ??? Thats what has me on the fence. Anybody know difinitively?

RE: Did Pak see her again after she ran from JB's.

In the July 20th, 2013 48 ours episode, there is a text from and a comment by Erin Morarity and Gus C.

The text says he (MP) never got within five feet of SG.
Erin M explains the text in greater detail.
GC says MP saw SG and went after her.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I'm Behind on this case. My sincerest apologies.

Has the Doctor who's land it was that SGs remains we're found on been considered a POI?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

and she was found face down, which rectifies earlier misreports of her being found "leaning against a tree" by "fishy" guy

Hadn't she been decomposing for 18 months?

They probably didn't have her eyes available to check for broken blood vessels or if the sclera was reasonable white/unremarkable (also would have helped decipher between asphyxiation and suffocation)

They Probably didn't have any of the tissue or her neck tissue or larynx available to check for trauma (trauma occurs to the larynx as it spasms while victim is struggling for air while drowning)

They didn't have adequate tissue in her ears to check for any inner ear trauma (ie ruptured ear canal/eardrum consistent with cranial pressure caused by drowning)

They didn't have her brain to check for hemorrhaging (consistent with the blood pressure being increased and cranial pressure ensuing) *HOWEVER blood stains on the inside of her skull could help indicate if there was cranial hemorrhaging - BUT even then that by itself wouldn't be enough to prove drowning, just inner-cranial trauma due to increased blood pressure.*

They didn't have her heart to check for cardiac issues that are consistent with drowning (many valves of the heart when one drowns become over exerted and tear or are obliterated)

They didn't have her lungs to check what state they were in either.

They didnt have her spleen to weigh or her liver to check the weight to see if they weighed at least 18% less than they should (if she did drown).

This is what is so horrible about trying to say definitively if someone drowned during and in the final stages of advanced decomposition. I don't even think her death should be considered an accident just because of the obvious inability to PROVE she drown.

 

[elvira]

Exactly sweetheart. You just proved my point, slipping and falling is simpler than lured out to a murder ground where a team of killers was waiting, partying for a few hours, escaping, knocking on doors, getting chased, etc.

Have I, now?

This is pretty simple though - two murderers lures out SG - she escapes - they catch her, kill her and continue about their business.

It is much simpler than SG stumbles out and dies close to other escorts.

 

[Justiceforever]

I'm Behind on this case. My sincerest apologies.

Has the Doctor who's land it was that SGs remains we're found on been considered a POI?

If I remember correctly the police have said that he is not a poi. There are many people, of course, that think he is. Read The Happy Hour thread for more speculation about the doc as poi. Very interesting. Quite compelling actually, but in my opinion, nothing more than a public lynching.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

If I remember correctly the police have said that he is not a poi. There are many people, of course, that think he is. Read The Happy Hour thread for more speculation about the doc as poi. Very interesting. Quite compelling actually, but in my opinion, nothing more than a public lynching.

Thank you! Heading to that thread

 

[fred&edna]

Varrone dodged the question about SG being hysterical. He said the argument could be made. He was selective with the adjectives he chose to describe SG on the phone.

And, Varrone took a nice big "gulp" before answering Moriarty's question asking whether or not he believes Hackett knows more about what happened to SG.

imo... Must be some awfully large beds in that area of Suffolk County because it's obvious that many people are occupying the same one.

 

[fred&edna]

There is a part of the episode where Moriarty is at Hackett's door asking him questions. And, I wish we knew what Hackett was going to say after he mentions "Diaz", but Moriarty interrupts.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

There is a part of the episode where Moriarty is at Hackett's door asking him questions. And, I wish we knew what Hackett was going to say after he mentions "Diaz", but Moriarty interrupts.

i wish she had asked him about the law suit.

she DID talk over him.
he was about to say stuff and she just yapped right over him
i was like

STOP TALKING ERIN - let him TALK!!!

last but not least
why didnt she ask him
WHY CANT YOU RELEASE THE 911 CALL???????
enquiring minds want to know? what's the problem ????

 

[Just K]

very plausible-seems a lot has been made of her possibly drowning in regards to water depth--

another angle on drowning: (definition used by World health Organization)
"Drowning is the process of experiencing respiratory impairment from submersion/immersion in liquid. This definition does not imply fatality, or even the necessity for medical treatment after removal of the cause, ***nor that any fluid necessarily enters the lungs.****

--the is a perfect scenario of someone tackled, and having their held held in the low-level water/muck until she asphyxiates, by someone pissed of for having to chase her down---

In Yesterday's 48 ours episode, it was stated (1st I had heard this) that Shannan was found FACE DOWN.

 

[deedee21]

Varrone said they may need information from the public to solve this case. That may or may not be true. If it is then LE should release some of the informatiom they have to the public. They should allow the public to hear some of the taped recordings of the calls made to MB sister. I dont believe they tried to get a location on the phone and did not bother to tape the calls. Why else would that poor girl subject herself to this sychopaths calls?

 

[deedee21]

Is Dr. Hackett back at Oak Beach? EM said they were at his house a few weeks ago. Is she making that statement in an older tape? Also, I dont recall MG going to CPH house with EM from 48 Hours. Is the clip of MG talking to CPH about the phone calls from Fieldnotes? He went to Oak Beach with MG. The conversation sounds simular to the one MG had with CPH when she went to Oak Beach with Fieldnotes.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Is Dr. Hackett back at Oak Beach? EM said they were at his house a few weeks ago. Is she making that statement in an older tape? Also, I dont recall MG going to CPH house with EM from 48 Hours. Is the clip of MG talking to CPH about the phone calls from Fieldnotes? He went to Oak Beach with MG. The conversation sounds simular to the one MG had with CPH when she went to Oak Beach with Fieldnotes.

yes - that is fieldnotes standing right next to Mari.
now you get to see what he looks like!!!!
That was from August 2011.

 

[MadamReporter]

Varrone dodged the question about SG being hysterical. He said the argument could be made. He was selective with the adjectives he chose to describe SG on the phone.

Forgive me for speaking out of turn, as I have not read every post in the thread, but is he referring to SG's 911 call? Someone else on here was wondering why her 911 call hasn't been released. I've heard her 911 call (or parts of it) on another program that aired earlier this year. It was the MOST BONE-CHILLING thing I've ever heard in my life. There is NO ARGUMENT TO BE MADE. I had fallen asleep with the television on and I woke up to a woman's hysterical screams and pleas for help. I was so disturbed by it that I remember mentioning to a co-worker the next day how scared I was after hearing it. I think I even remember her saying, "Don't touch me."

 

[deedee21]

Forgive me for speaking out of turn, as I have not read every post in the thread, but is he referring to SG's 911 call? Someone else on here was wondering why her 911 call hasn't been released. I've heard her 911 call (or parts of it) on another program that aired earlier this year. It was the MOST BONE-CHILLING thing I've ever heard in my life. There is NO ARGUMENT TO BE MADE. I had fallen asleep with the television on and I woke up to a woman's hysterical screams and pleas for help. I was so disturbed by it that I remember mentioning to a co-worker the next day how scared I was after hearing it. I think I even remember her saying, "Don't touch me."

He is referring to her 911 call. What show would have aired the tape? You may be mistaken. I dont think LE released the tape.

 

[MadamReporter]

He is referring to her 911 call. What show would have aired the tape? You may be mistaken. I dont think LE released the tape.

I'm not mistaken. I'm 100% POSITIVE it was her call. No doubt in my mind. I might even remember the exact date it aired because I go to a different law office every day to work, and I remember who I was talking to about hearing that call, so I can just look up the date of when I worked with that person.

 

[fred&edna]

i wish she had asked him about the law suit.

she DID talk over him.
he was about to say stuff and she just yapped right over him
i was like

STOP TALKING ERIN - let him TALK!!!

last but not least
why didnt she ask him
WHY CANT YOU RELEASE THE 911 CALL???????
enquiring minds want to know? what's the problem ????

Something else re: Hackett:

Can't believe it but, I'd never noticed that when Hackett wrote to 48 Hours explaining why he contacted MG... he stated in his letter/s that he did so at the request of friends who were searching for SG in an effort to be supportive.

So, they were all pals.

 

[giagreen]

Okay so maybe I am missing the obvious here. But I've always wondered how they new to call MBB the next day after the bodies were found. I mean I understand she was missing and all. And it's a duhh it would of been her. But, out of all the women missing in NYC how did they know so fast it would be MBB? Along with the rest of the girls.