Possible Connections

[foureyes]

I know you asked Richard, who is unparalleled in his research; but I wanted to post that in the town of Gaithersburg, MD - A Thomas T Welch Sr lived at 789 Quince Orchard Blvd in 85' and also lived at 13328 Country Ridge Dr. Germantown in 1992.
and there was a Trina J Welch in Apt 102 living at 18409 Lost Knife Circle Apt 102, married to a Michael Welch which may not be of interest.

 

[foureyes]

Here is a Timeline Of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.’s Known Whereabouts at given times. It was probably posted somewhere in this topic area in the past, but for consideration of other crimes possibly linked to Welch, I am posting it here. Welch was known to travel around the country, so these dates and places are just "snap shots" of where he was.

Date, Location
January 9, 1974, Austin, Texas
March 25, 1975, Wheaton Plaza in Wheaton, Maryland
April 1, 1975, 4714 Baltimore Ave. Hyattsville, Maryland
April 9, 1977, Takoma Park, Maryland
November 1977, Orlando, Florida
November 24,1977, Montgomery County, Maryland
March 6, 1979, 18407 Lost Knife Circle #202, Gaithersburg, (Montgomery County) MD
March 10, 1980, North Miami Beach, Florida
September 15, 1981, 4714 Baltimore Ave. Hyattsville, MD
April 15, 1982 to Sept 11, 1984, Incarcerated, Maryland
March 18, 1987, Los Angeles, CA
April 27, 1987, Sioux City, Iowa
January 10, 1988, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
February 4, 1988, Sioux City, Iowa
December 20, 1988, Horry County, South Carolina
March 17, 1989, Horry County, South Carolina
September 1992, Lockhart, SC
November 16, 1992, Clover, SC
May 19, 1990, Union County, SC
May 01, 1994, Union County, SC
June 13, 1994, Baltimore, MD
June 21, 1994, Road 3 Box 65, Bedford, PA
July 13, 1994, 1800 Elmerton Ave. Harrisburg, PA
1995, Prince William County, VA
June 1996, 2242 Sussex Court Woodbridge, VA
March 1997, New Castle County, DE
July 1997 to 2015, Incarcerated, Delaware
2015 to Present, Incarcerated in Virginia

Welch is also believed to have spent time at various unknown dates in California.

 

[foureyes]

Welch is also believed to have spent time at various nonspecific dates in MN and NY.

 

[Richard]

Richard your research is unparalleled. About the Lost Knife Circle apartment ....who was on the lease and do you know if he was working in Gaithersbug during that time?

I got the Lost Knife Circle address from a Maryland Judiciary Case Search. It turned up a Still Active Traffic Violation Case on Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.

On 6 March 1979, Welch was pulled over for an unspecified infraction while driving a 1977 Pontiac, Maryland Vehicle Tag: ECG856. He was charged with driving without a license.

He gave the officer his address as: 18407 LOST KNIFE CIR #202, GAITHERSBURG, MD 20760

Charge Information
Officer ID:0919
Charge: Article:TASec:16Sub-Sec:101Para:Code:
Description: DRIVING WITHOUT LICENSE
Location Stopped: LOST KNIFE CIR
Contributed to Accident?: NO Personal Injury?: NO
Fine: 250

The kicker is that Welch failed to show for his court hearing, and as a result this open/active case remains on the record. His license (if he even had one) was suspended.

I do not know who was on the lease for that apartment in 1979, as On-Line, records do not go back that far. However, old Montgomery County Phone books do exist in certain libraries and could be checked - a tedious task.

 

[Motherof5]

If Sheila and Katherine Lyon were the victims of a Kidnapping/Trafficking Ring, then there would most certainly have been other connected cases - just by the very definition of such an organization.

In 2013, MCP finally decided to release information and a sketch regarding the Long Haired Man (LHM) whom they subsequently have identified as Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. However, again with the idea that more were involved, I do not think that this completely eliminates the Tape Recorder Man (TRM) from the mix.

It is entirely possible that both were involved in the girls' disappearance. Remember that early on, the TRM was seen by other witnesses operating at other area malls on other days prior to 25 March 1975.

Richard, what are your thoughts on who the TRM could have been? Do you think he was one of LLW's family members that were mentioned by LE or someone else?

 

[Richard]

I know you asked Richard, who is unparalleled in his research; but I wanted to post that in the town of Gaithersburg, MD - A Thomas T Welch Sr lived at 789 Quince Orchard Blvd in 85' and also lived at 13328 Country Ridge Dr. Germantown in 1992.
and there was a Trina J Welch in Apt 102 living at 18409 Lost Knife Circle Apt 102, married to a Michael Welch which may not be of interest.

I believe that the Thomas T. Welch, Sr. listed for those addresses may have been the same "Teddy" Welch who was said by Lloyd Welch to have been the 11 year old boy in the car with the Lyon sisters (in one of his many ever-changing stories). I have seen him listed in records as both Senior and Junior.

I am certainly not a Welch family genealogist, but have seen some records which mention various members of that family. There seem to be a number of persons with the same first and last name, and some Seniors and Juniors, etc. - so it gets confusing trying to sort it all out.

Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr. for instance had the same name as his father, but often went by the name Michael Welch.

 

[Richard]

Richard, what are your thoughts on who the TRM could have been? Do you think he was one of LLW's family members that were mentioned by LE or someone else?

The Tape Recorder Man (TRM) was a real person. He actually existed and was seen by a number of people at different times and places, besides at Wheaton Plaza. Depending on various news reports of the time, there were probably between 15 and 20 people who saw TRM in the days leading up to the disappearance of Sheila and Kate.

What he was doing; using a tape recorder as a prop to entice children to talk to him, was not illegal or immoral in and of itself, but it was certainly strange behavior that in hindsight is extremely suspect.

Only a couple of years ago, I spoke with a Wheaton Plaza security officer and asked him what he would do if he saw someone with a tape recorder talking to children. His answer was that they were instructed to watch for such behavior and immediately report it. I asked him why he thought that was, and he said he thought it might have to do with anti-terrorism policies. He was a young guy and had never heard of the Lyon sisters - yet he had received very specific instructions to watch for potential Tape Recorder Men so many years later.

A man with a tape recorder was seen at several area malls or shopping centers before 25 March 1975. At least five persons saw him at Wheaton Plaza on days before 25 March, about fifteen persons saw a man who fit the TRM description at Marlow Heights Shopping Center and Iverson Mall (adjacent shopping centers in Prince George's County, MD). Someone reported having seen such a man at Bowie Shopping Center in P.G. County and there was another reported sighting at White Oak Shopping Center in Montgomery County.

Immediately AFTER the 25 March 1975 disappearance of the girls, the TRM also disappeared - the same day and hour. It was a whole week before the TRM sketch and story were released to the public. And when the story came out, people were trying to remember if they had seen such a man. All reported sightings were those mentioned above - BEFORE 25 March 1975.

Here was a guy going all over with his tape recorder and asking children to talk into his microphone. He had a passion for it. It might have made some sense if he disappeared after the sketch and story hit the news, because he would have wanted to lay low, knowing that he was being linked to the missing girls, but he did not wait to ditch his TRM act. Just coincidence?

Most police believed that the TRM lead was the strongest one going, and they chose to go with that story and sketch for almost 40 years before coming up with the sketch and story of the Long Haired Man (LHM) and completely dropping TRM - with little or no explanation.

I have stated many times over the years that I do not know for certain whether or not TRM actually abducted the Lyon sisters. But I have always felt that he was in some way part of the story.

The IBM employee who stated that he saw a girl tied up in the back of a Ford Station Wagon, thought the driver looked like the sketch he had seen of the Tape Recorder Man.

Lloyd Welch, when he first came forward to police on 1 April 1975 had seen the TRM sketch and story in the newspaper, and also the story about a $7,000 reward being offered. He wanted that reward and he stated in his first story that the man he saw putting the girls in the car resembled the sketch.

The witnesses who came forward to state that they had seen TRM at other malls were asked if they wanted to change the sketch or if they remembered anything different. Of all those people, only a few offered any suggestions - and as a result the sketch was revised only slightly around the mouth and chin area. All felt it was a good resemblance to the TRM they had seen elsewhere.

In light of Lloyd Welch's conviction, I believe that he probably was involved, but there is absolutely NO way that 18-year-old moron masterminded this crime and did it all by himself. There were certainly others. Who they were is the question.

 

[djt]

I know you asked Richard, who is unparalleled in his research; but I wanted to post that in the town of Gaithersburg, MD - A Thomas T Welch Sr lived at 789 Quince Orchard Blvd in 85' and also lived at 13328 Country Ridge Dr. Germantown in 1992.
and there was a Trina J Welch in Apt 102 living at 18409 Lost Knife Circle Apt 102, married to a Michael Welch which may not be of interest.

Congratulations to those of you who stayed with this case over the years, I am now retired but I did direct Cold Case detectives to further this case. I knew their brother well.
Followed your posts and I do give credit to several of you and your posts. Richard you were mostly on task. You made me think. I knew the case from beginning to the conclusion and unfortunately I still have questions. Thank you guys for staying on this case,
Best dt

 

[Richard]

From a 2017 Washington Post article:

... One of the intriguing finds early on was a brief report — written by investigators a week after the disappearances — about an 18-year-old named Lloyd Lee Welch who had gone up to a security guard at the mall a week after the disappearance and said he'd been there on the day the girls went missing.

In that old account, Welch reportedly said he'd seen a man — referenced in a newspaper article around the same time — who was said to have talked to the sisters while holding a tape recorder.

Mall security called police, who administered a lie-detector test. Welch failed and was apparently dismissed by detectives at the time as an unreliable witness....

LINK:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...2e5cf46c1e2_story.html?utm_term=.ca364844911c

 

[Mysteries1974]

I noted that Martha Jean Lambert was mentioned, is there something that could connect her to this?

 

[Richard]

I noted that Martha Jean Lambert was mentioned, is there something that could connect her to this?

This case is certainly a sad one, and there are elements of it which do resemble the disappearance of the Lyon sisters ten years earlier in Maryland.

I would have to say that due to the distance in miles and years, the two cases are probably not related. But anything could be possible.

There seem to be a number of disturbing factors relating to the family which might have had something to do with Martha's disappearance. Not necessarily that a family member killed her, but that due to her unhappy home situation, she spent more time away from home and was therefore vulnerable to either a targeted or random abduction.

 

[Mysteries1974]

This case is certainly a sad one, and there are elements of it which do resemble the disappearance of the Lyon sisters ten years earlier in Maryland.

I would have to say that due to the distance in miles and years, the two cases are probably not related. But anything could be possible.

There seem to be a number of disturbing factors relating to the family which might have had something to do with Martha's disappearance. Not necessarily that a family member killed her, but that due to her unhappy home situation, she spent more time away from home and was therefore vulnerable to either a targeted or random abduction.

I still believe Martha was abducted by a non family member. I find the brothers confession ludicrous

 

[Richard]

This thread was started for the purpose of considering other similar cases that might be related to the disappearance of Sheila and Katherine Lyon, who went missing on 25 March 1975. Linking their case with others an with identified suspects or MO's in those other cases could lead to possible leads or solutions.

With the conviction of Lloyd Welch, Jr. for the abduction and murder of Sheila and Kate, perhaps other abductions and murders might be solved. Comparing Welch's travels and locations at various times to missing person cases might prove helpful. Knowing who his friends and associates were might also be helpful.

Lloyd Welch couldn't tell the truth if he stepped in it, but investigators over time were able to wade through all his BS and pick out enough information to make their case against him. Perhaps more information could be discovered which would help find others who were involved and help to solve other cold cases.

Welch certainly did not stop his criminal behavior after the girls disappeared. And he probably had been involved in similar crimes leading up to 25 March 1975. Back tracking him and his associates might help solve other cases.

 

[marylandmissing]

Tomorrow marks 47 years since Paul Lentz was murdered.

https://www.facebook.com/vanishedinmaryland/posts/1157355581492788

 

[Richard]

The December 1974 abduction and murder of Eileen Kelly bears many similarities to other cold cases of the era.

 

[Passion4RealJustice]

It's so convenient that both John David Norman's rolodex and Francis D Sheldon's North Fox Island guest list, have both disappeared before anyone who would be willing to protect the information got their hands on it. I'm not saying the police are necessarily involved, but both directories were in the custody of police at one time, and both have gone missing, without any documentation of any of the names. I know there are people of importance in the lists, but most importantly, I am certain that there are answers to all of our questions within those lists as well.

 

[Richard]

Bumping this thread up. The Lyon sisters case might be considered "solved" with the conviction of Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.", but there are many unresolved issues.

The Lyon girls are still missing. Other accomplices in their abduction and murders have not been officially declared.