Possible Human Remains Found and DNA Testing

[wenwe4]

I had a dream about sweet Zahra last night. I'm praying that she's found today.

Me too Swedishfish! Welcome to WS!

Just a note re: BioMom picking up Zahra's things in the home. I believe she needed to do that because if there is anything left of her's, those items have "Zahra dust" on them. This may be the only "connection" she will ever have to her baby girl. (sorry ot - I will try to be better!)

 

[WhyaDuck?]

True, Ducky. Just a note about the weather -- it was unseasonably hot in NC all through September and into early October. In Hickory, there were multiple days in mid-to-late Sept that the high was above 90 degrees, then mostly 70s/80s in October.

You can check by date here: http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Depending on time of death/disposal (sounds so cold to type, sorry), her remains could have been exposed to some seriously hot weather, more so than you'd imagine for Sept in the foothills.

Yep - heat and water are the big factors. Thanks for reminding us, Sherbie, as it might be hard for some of us northerners to remember that cool fall temps are not universal.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Oh wow, I took a break from this case and am SO glad that they have now confirmed finding remains (though not yet ID'd). I want so much for this little angel to be flown to her beloved Austrailia. Will LE be making a statement or did I miss that?

 

[xheraldina]

Is a month enough time for a body to decompose into bones? I thought that took years.

There are cases when the body decomposes so much in 4 days, so that the cause of death remains a mystery as in Jody Wilson’s case.

 

[Clue Hopper]

With a toxicology test they would need at least tissue wouldn't they?

 

[Lera213]

Today, several media outlets, citing the Hickory Police Department as a source, claimed the evidence found at the search site consists of "possible human remains." Hickory police, however, deny making any such statements to the press.

"I would like to know where they got it from," Hickory Deputy Chief of Police Clyde Deal told AOL News. "What we have told everybody is exactly what is on the release. ... I don't know if some of these people are assuming and making a leak [or] if somebody is trusting a source for their information outside this police department. [If they are], that probably is not wise journalism."

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/articl...ra-baker-case/19713026?a_dgi=aolshare_twitter

Why now does LE come out with a strong statement when other items found was reported before LE confirmed? With LE coming out strong like this makes me think that they are worried the media is moving faster then they want it to move. It is putting more pressure on LE. That is my guess.

 

[wenwe4]

Warning: Science death stuff that may be too graphic for some readers.

I remember in the Caylee case watching a lot of videos from the Body Farm on human decomp in various stages and conditions. There was quite a bit of info about adipocere forming when the body was exposed to water. IIRC adipocere is "grave wax" and it is a chemical reaction when the body decomposes and there is a higher exposure to water and certain conditions.

I make handmade soap with lye and olive/vegetable oils. The "saponification" process that happens to turn these two elements into "soap" is much like the chemical process for making "wax". Grave wax forms when certain conditions are in place as the body is decomposing. I do remember that in higher heat (ie: Florida summer body in the trunk of a car) it was just a matter of a couple of weeks by the time the remains were completely skeletonized.

 

[Lera213]

With a toxicology test they would need at least tissue wouldn't they?

I understand they can do toxicology on Hair

 

[wenwe4]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahra-baker-discovers-human-remains/story?id=12122847

Investigators searching for the missing North Carolina girl Zahra Baker are analyzing human remains found while combing through an area that they had previously checked.

The remains were discovered while searching along Dudley Shoals Road in Caldwell County and the banks and waters of the adjacent Gunpowder Creek, ABC News affiliate WSOC-TV reported today.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I understand they can do toxicology on Hair

Fingernails, as well, I think, which may be found in situ, if not attached. (Sorry, that is graphic.)

Skeletal remains are usually not found entirely without tissue for such uses.

 

[carbuff]

With a toxicology test they would need at least tissue wouldn't they?

It depends on what kind of toxicology they're looking at. Some long-term exposures will show up in bone, and they can test hair to see if you've been smoking marijauna. Fingernails also reveal a lot.

 

[DLT88]

With a toxicology test they would need at least tissue wouldn't they?

I think they might be able to do it with bone marrow, too, no?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I think they might be able to do it with bone marrow, too, no?

Bone marrow can be used, but it depends on the toxin and how long it was in the blood stream, IIRC. Some toxins show up there better than others, and it is harder to tell how much was in the system before death.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Breaking news of remains found streaming live now http://www.ustream.tv/channel/TIMER55

 

[WhyaDuck?]

As WenWe pointed out, the adipocere is likely the best bet for tox, I should think. Though with any of this, if it was an acute poisoning, the toxin might not have had time to store anywhere.

 

[carbuff]

Bone marrow can be used, but it depends on the toxin and how long it was in the blood stream, IIRC. Some toxins show up there better than others, and it is harder to tell how much was in the system before death.

Zahra's bone marrow probably has scarring from the extensive chemotherapy, which might make determining anything else more difficult.

 

[Lera213]

I can tell you that LE deserves a break in this case...they need evidence strong on the cause of death. I'll be praying for that one specific thing.

 

[Clue Hopper]

With her having cancer twice before, would she succumb to fumes from paint such as coming from a counter top paint? or epoxy paint? Links of what type I'm meaning below.

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGProduct.asp?pid=208

http://www.homaxproducts.com/products/kitchenbath/05/index.html

 

[westsidefox64]

This is not a general discussion thread. If it becomes one, it will be shut.

Find or start threads for topics not covered in the OP, please.

This is the first forum ive been on can we start a general disscusion thread???

 

[TxLady2]

I think they probably took the soil surrounding her remains so they could use it to assist with estimating time of death maybe? Based on moisture levels of the soil, amount of human decomp in that soil, etc.? Also, there may be DNA or other evidence (hair, saliva, sweat, etc.) in the surrounding soil to tie whomever buried her to the scene.

I'm totally guessing here.

You are probably correct.