Possible Murder Motives#2

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puffster said:
I think he's going to plead self-defense, panicked and hid the body. Otherwise he's going to either plead guilty or mental defect, insanity. The evidence seems to be too damning to try to say he had nothing at all to do with her death.
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I agree. I think he'll say that they had a verbal confrontation that got physical and then went horribly wrong. And then he freaked out and hid the body.
 
Skigirl said:
I have to respectfully disagree.

I don't think it's crazy for him to stay silent. A public defender friend of mine often says that if her clients would just keep their mouths shut and stay off the internet, it would be near-to-impossible to convict them. In this case, there's a lot of physical evidence (we've been told), so that probably isn't true here, but he can really only make things worse by not following his defense attorneys' advice to keep quiet. And anyone who's watched crime shows on TV knows that when the investigators start interrogating, it doesn't do you any good to continue to speak with them without a lawyer.

Even if he were going to try to work out a plea deal, it's to his advantage to remain silent to leave the investigators with information to want. If he gives them everything they want, he won't have any leverage in a negotiation.
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I totally agree. He's got information they want, and if things played out the way I suspect they did, he wants to make sure he gets manslaughter or murder two instead of being turned into the Hannibal Lecter of Yale. If he's got good counsel, he'll keep his mouth shut until the prosecution lays out their cards.
 
Skigirl said:
I have to respectfully disagree.

I don't think it's crazy for him to stay silent. A public defender friend of mine often says that if her clients would just keep their mouths shut and stay off the internet, it would be near-to-impossible to convict them. In this case, there's a lot of physical evidence (we've been told), so that probably isn't true here, but he can really only make things worse by not following his defense attorneys' advice to keep quiet. And anyone who's watched crime shows on TV knows that when the investigators start interrogating, it doesn't do you any good to continue to speak with them without a lawyer.

Even if he were going to try to work out a plea deal, it's to his advantage to remain silent to leave the investigators with information to want. If he gives them everything they want, he won't have any leverage in a negotiation.
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Sola.N said:
I totally agree. He's got information they want, and if things played out the way I suspect they did, he wants to make sure he gets manslaughter or murder two instead of being turned into the Hannibal Lecter of Yale. If he's got good counsel, he'll keep his mouth shut until the prosecution lays out their cards.
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I agree. I'm hoping, though, that he tells all so that people may learn from him. No matter what he thinks the prosecution will suggest, no matter what he may think the world or the public will say about him, and no matter that he's now compromised his life from what he hoped it could be, I do hope that he tells all so that people can learn from him...parents, police, profilers, coworkers, doctors, employers, etc. (not to be taken out of context...learn from him meaning his case, not him being the teacher). Hopefully he'll just do the right thing and tell the truth. If he tells the truth, and he gets a life sentence, he could still walk in 40 years. Unfortunately, I could never work for a defense team...too many cops in my background. I'd dig as much as I could for the prosecution, just for some reason I don't think this guy's circumstances warrant the dp. People still can't even put together a concrete motive, and we all know that without motive, intent is unproven. I don't think he'll walk, but I'm just about positive he won't get the dp. I personally don't even think he qualifies...even though I want him to.
 
'Ailina said:
I have envisioned her turning to leave, too, and him grabbing her arm or maybe her hair. Hair was found (what was it...on his clothing? At the scene?).

If he gripped her, she would've struggled to get free, which would've made him tighten his grip, at which point I can see her trying to strike him to get him to let go. One thing leads to another....
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More or less what I'm thinking. He got in her face regarding care of the animals or her not following procedures, she was busy, trying to get stuff done before the wedding, felt she didn't have time or just wasn't in the mood for his attitude. Either turned to leave, or possibly pushed past him. Shoving match ensued, (if she shoved him back, then I can see him getting very upset) and it escalated from there.
 
Noob here, hello everyone!

I've read many comments that Raymond looked "distraught" leaving the building after the fire alarm was pulled. What is this based on?? His hands on his head?

IMO, this doesn't sound distraught.

It sounds like someone trying to conceal their identity. Which, if he had just commited a murder, he clearly would have every reason to want to do.
 
puffster said:
I think he's going to plead self-defense, panicked and hid the body. Otherwise he's going to either plead guilty or mental defect, insanity. The evidence seems to be too damning to try to say he had nothing at all to do with her death.
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Self-defense when the victim was half his size? And what did she attack him with? It wouldn't surprise me though ~ I've already seen something similar in another trial I followed. :banghead: MOO
 
miafedup said:
Noob here, hello everyone!

I've read many comments that Raymond looked "distraught" leaving the building after the fire alarm was pulled. What is this based on?? His hands on his head?

IMO, this doesn't sound distraught.

It sounds like someone trying to conceal their identity. Which, if he had just commited a murder, he clearly would have every reason to want to do.
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Welcome! :seeya: The video isn't clear enough for me to see any emotion. In court though, he looks more worried about his own fate than anything else. MOO
 
panthera said:
Welcome! :seeya: The video isn't clear enough for me to see any emotion. In court though, he looks more worried about his own fate than anything else. MOO
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Thanks for the welcome!

I agree about his behavior in court. He seemed nervous, not remorseful.

I haven't seen the video of him leaving the building but, if it isn't clear, it's so odd that some are saying he is distraught. I think they are reading too much into it and, again, I can't help but wonder if he is just hiding his identity (not his supposed shame/regret).
 
miafedup said:
Thanks for the welcome!

I agree about his behavior in court. He seemed nervous, not remorseful.

I haven't seen the video of him leaving the building but, if it isn't clear, it's so odd that some are saying he is distraught. I think they are reading too much into it and, again, I can't help but wonder if he is just hiding his identity (not his supposed shame/regret).
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Hi miafedup- Press seemed to infer LE had viewed it and saw him looking distressed/agitated/distraught like something extremely serious had happened -I don't think "distraught" and holding his head etc means he was experiencing shame or regret but rather extreme shock, fear etc and wondering what the hell to do next which I think is perfectly normal for any human being, good or bad
 
Originally Posted by panthera
In court though, he looks more worried about his own fate than anything else. MOO
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I agree! If I was a mind-reader I would say that he was thinking..."What the heck did I do? I killed someone over nothing and now my life is over! What I'd give for a do-over. One minute I had my whole life in front of me and with one quick senseless act, it's now over."
 
miafedup said:
Thanks for the welcome!

I agree about his behavior in court. He seemed nervous, not remorseful.

I haven't seen the video of him leaving the building but, if it isn't clear, it's so odd that some are saying he is distraught. I think they are reading too much into it and, again, I can't help but wonder if he is just hiding his identity (not his supposed shame/regret).
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It's from the same type of camera, imo, that captured Annie entering and that wasn't even clear enough to tell for sure what she was carrying. I think by him being able to carry out daily routines, going back to the building to try to retrieve his pen and so forth, then playing his softball game on the day her body was found (knowing LE was closing in), he's not showing much remorse at all. MOO
 
From observations of several brides-to-be, I would imagine that Annie Le might have had no patience that day for anything that Raymond Clark had to say.
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This may be a lot of it...He may have been demanding that she immediately do some time-consuming task and she may have said that she didn't have time....and things began to escalate. Does anyone know if that Tuesday was her last "work day" before the wedding. I had heard somewhere that her family was arriving for the wedding the next day - which suggests that perhaps Tuesday was going to be her last day for awhile (until she returned from honeymoon.)
 
Waddles said:
Hi miafedup- Press seemed to infer LE had viewed it and saw him looking distressed/agitated/distraught like something extremely serious had happened -I don't think "distraught" and holding his head etc means he was experiencing shame or regret but rather extreme shock, fear etc and wondering what the hell to do next which I think is perfectly normal for any human being, good or bad
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And hello to you. :) It's nice to converse with civil people. My experience with message boards has been anything but civil so it truly is nice to meet you all.

Thanks for your link. But Panthera just wrote exactly what I was going to.

What I'm trying to say (not very well) is there might be other explanations for why he was holding his head in his hands other than he was distraught.

A very plausible explanation to me is that he was simply trying to hide his identity from the camera's, especially if he was the one that caused the alarm to go off and was making his escape.

So I would love to know how they are determining he was distraught.
 
miafedup said:
And hello to you. :) It's nice to converse with civil people. My experience with message boards has been anything but civil so it truly is nice to meet you all.

Thanks for your link. But Panthera just wrote exactly what I was going to.

What I'm trying to say (not very well) is there might be other explanations for why he was holding his head in his hands other than he was distraught.

A very plausible explanation to me is that he was simply trying to hide his identity from the camera's, especially if he was the one that caused the alarm to go off and was making his escape.

So I would love to know how they are determining he was distraught.
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Sure, yeah I did understand-I too think it's quite possible he was hiding his face from view but also I can believe anyone would be showing some kind of emotion -even if just that he's realising he stuffed up majorly as regards himself so I imagine he quite possibly looked very distressed or shocked and wondering what to do next to save his own skin. So I don't think by using the word "distraught" they meant he was regretful and remorseful to her but rather distraught he was in major trouble
 
so despite the fact that he went around acting normal and cheery like nothing happened in the days after, even knowing all the while her body was down there which I can't even fathom and makes me very sick, I still think it quite likely shock and panic at the situation he had put himself in would have been visible on his face an hour after the murder if cameras were clear enough
 
Waddles said:
Sure, yeah I did understand-I too think it's quite possible he was hiding his face from view but also I can believe anyone would be showing some kind of emotion -even if just that he's realising he stuffed up majorly as regards himself so I imagine he quite possibly looked very distressed or shocked and wondering what to do next to save his own skin. So I don't think by using the word "distraught" they meant he was regretful and remorseful to her but rather distraught he was in major trouble
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Good, we are on the same page! They haven't released that video, right??? I've been googling all day and have had zero luck.

Would love to see what they are interpreting as "distraught". Sobbing, crying, looking nervous, shocked?? Hmmm.
 
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