Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[eagleyeseymour]

was it pulled or is it you can't find it? Which episode are you speaking of?

@hawkshaw I found it on another website, obviously it's been pulled from iTunes and Spotify for a good reason. It seems @Mopac Megalo either hasn't gotten around to pulling it from the website I found it on or that website operates independently and uploaded the content themselves. Either way, I downloaded the .mp3 file.

The episode we are speaking of was published last Saturday , it's a 23:00 minute episode (intentional?) of John Ray discussing Stephan's letter and essentially debunking it as being a compilation of lies regarding the contents of the 911 call. He seemed very cautious about what he could say and what he could not say so it is interesting the content was removed from two major platforms.

Thankfully we have the producer/publisher on here, who may be able to elaborate on why it was pulled.

 

[eagleyeseymour]

So yes, EagleEye, I think your idea of a struggle etc may be a real possibility.

Re: Pak.

Either he was in on it or they didn’t know he was there until late enough for it to cause problems.

Ray’s statements seriously start to cast doubt on his role too. Again, Ray dealt with Stephan’s claims individually.

Shannan’s demeanour was calm

False

The males’ voices on the tapes are calm

False

At no time was Shannan desperate during the call

False

I think this brings Pak right back into play as a POI. It certainly seems his story about him calmly trying to coax Shannan into the car is undermined. Also if one of the voices on the tape is his, and Ray is right about the tape showing the events surrounding Shannan’s murder, then that certainly puts him far more at the centre of any potential violence than previously thought.

Amber Costello got into a car after repeatedly refusing to give LISK an outcall. Maybe the offer of a ride and protection from someone she’s acquainted with (Pak) swung it? Many of the victims seem to have disappeared in situations where it seems likely they got into a car to do an outcall, not a legit taxi, but someone they’d feel happy to get in with. Surely Pak as a ‘freelancer’ was in a prime position to have enough hookers who trusted him but not connected to him strongly enough for links to be made. Perfect supplier of victims if someone wanted them?​

The other possibility is that Pak’s presence wasn’t known about by Brewer until too late which is what set the usual MO off kilter. Or that his silence was bought with money or threats maybe?

I think he was probably involved, at least as a sourcer. A few weeks before Shannan had fallen out with her other driver Blake. She refused to give him his cut so leapt out of his car to make her own way home. Pak may have felt he could get away with handing Shannan over to killers despite the fact they had known links to each other. He would just have told Alex she’d done the same to him and that was the last he’d seen of her. Would have been a plausible excuse for not her not being with Pak.


Anyway, apols for waffling. On Covid lockdown so prob overthinking things a bit.

I just re-watched the 48 Hours Mystery special on the case, Ray states in the interview that he was told there was a struggle overheard on the call.

What's most significant about what he says back on this special is that it doesn't align with Stephan's letter at all. Stephan's letter was inconsistent with what other police officers told Ray was on the tape.

I also recall Spota and Dormer giving opposing statements on the nature of the investigation and whether the GB4 were linked to the other remains on Ocean Parkway.

Suffolk couldn't get their story straight from the get-go, so this leads me to believe there are honest cops on the force who told it how it is and others who seemingly participated in collusion to some degree.

@Mopac Megalo - We'd love to hear from Ray more about what he was told back then, which he spoke of publicly on the 48 Hours Mystery show I linked above and why there was a tremendous discrepancy between Stephans letter and the accounts from other members of the SCPD.

 

[Sallyla]

Just popped in briefly as busy with my family.

Came across something interesting. I thought Alex, SH’s boyfriend and Pak knew each other. Apparently they didn’t. Meghan had just told him that someone called ‘Michael’ was driving her on a job. He ransacked her belongings, found Pak’s number and called him asking where SG was.

I think this is interesting if she hadn’t left that one detail with him, she would have been like all the other girls. Going missing on a mysterious job, nobody knowing who with or where, no connection with Oak Beach. They didn’t link the 911 call to Shannan for ages when they knew she was missing. Also it was a stroke of luck that she’d written his name and number down and that Alex came across it.

I think that’s it’s strange Hackett’s call to Mari (which was obviously to encourage her not to report Shannan missing) must have happened shortly after Alex called Pak. Did Pak warm him? It reminds me of the call to Maureen’s friend Sarah to say Maureen was at a ‘whorehouse in Queens’.

Also re Pak. She met him when they were both working for an agency and were sent on a wild ghost chase around NY looking for a bogus client. Pak told her that the agency would only give her the worst jobs because she was new so he talked her into them working as an independent team. Then he set up the job at Oak Beach without anyone knowing their destination.

I wonder if he could have done that with the other girls too. Most had pimps and he would have felt confident they would not tell those pimps they were going on a job another man had arranged or his name, details.

But Alex had lost interest in driving or pimping her. So she left a name.

Speculation, of course. But interesting.

 

[eagleyeseymour]

Just popped in briefly as busy with my family.

Came across something interesting. I thought Alex, SH’s boyfriend and Pak knew each other. Apparently they didn’t. Meghan had just told him that someone called ‘Michael’ was driving her on a job. He ransacked her belongings, found Pak’s number and called him asking where SG was.

I think this is interesting if she hadn’t left that one detail with him, she would have been like all the other girls. Going missing on a mysterious job, nobody knowing who with or where, no connection with Oak Beach. They didn’t link the 911 call to Shannan for ages when they knew she was missing. Also it was a stroke of luck that she’d written his name and number down and that Alex came across it.

I think that’s it’s strange Hackett’s call to Mari (which was obviously to encourage her not to report Shannan missing) must have happened shortly after Alex called Pak. Did Pak warm him? It reminds me of the call to Maureen’s friend Sarah to say Maureen was at a ‘whorehouse in Queens’.

Also re Pak. She met him when they were both working for an agency and were sent on a wild ghost chase around NY looking for a bogus client. Pak told her that the agency would only give her the worst jobs because she was new so he talked her into them working as an independent team. Then he set up the job at Oak Beach without anyone knowing their destination.

I wonder if he could have done that with the other girls too. Most had pimps and he would have felt confident they would not tell those pimps they were going on a job another man had arranged or his name, details.

But Alex had lost interest in driving or pimping her. So she left a name.

Speculation, of course. But interesting.

Interesting theory, but why did you mention Meghan instead of Shannan? Meghan was being pimped by Akeem Cruz not Alex Diaz.

I think this is just a mistake... your points are valid just consider that Michael Pak was driving Shannan around for a year so her boyfriend Alex would've known of him.

Heres what bugs me about Pak, besides for his checkered past:

• Says it was dark and hard to see, but leaves at dawn when the sun is rising after looking for one measly hour
• He was following Shannan and she was running away from him , not to him, initially I thought why the hell would she stay in Brewers house if she was going to be killed in there? then I thought about it and seems she did not want to leave with Pak , this is substantiated by Coletti's statement that she took off when she saw his headlights
• Pak spoke with Sherre Gilbert and she stated that in the days following Shannan's disappearance, Pak told her "I have an alibi" , you can watch for yourself in this episode of Investigation Discovery

The last point is one I was unaware of as I just watched the episode today. Why would he state he has an alibi? Is that something innocent people are concerned with?

 

[Mopac Megalo]

Hi All,

The episode has not been deleted. We recently re-ordered the mini-episodes and bonus content so that people could binge more easily. If you're listening on Apple, please do so through Apple Podcasts and not iTunes. If on Spotify or another service, just scroll down to find it.

Here's a direct link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/911-tapes-released/id1499159204?i=1000474789459

Thanks and keep listening!

@hawkshaw I found it on another website, obviously it's been pulled from iTunes and Spotify for a good reason. It seems @Mopac Megalo either hasn't gotten around to pulling it from the website I found it on or that website operates independently and uploaded the content themselves. Either way, I downloaded the .mp3 file.

The episode we are speaking of was published last Saturday , it's a 23:00 minute episode (intentional?) of John Ray discussing Stephan's letter and essentially debunking it as being a compilation of lies regarding the contents of the 911 call. He seemed very cautious about what he could say and what he could not say so it is interesting the content was removed from two major platforms.

Thankfully we have the producer/publisher on here, who may be able to elaborate on why it was pulled.

 

[Sallyla]

Interesting theory, but why did you mention Meghan instead of Shannan? Meghan was being pimped by Akeem Cruz not Alex Diaz.

I think this is just a mistake... your points are valid just consider that Michael Pak was driving Shannan around for a year so her boyfriend Alex would've known of him.

Heres what bugs me about Pak, besides for his checkered past:

• Says it was dark and hard to see, but leaves at dawn when the sun is rising after looking for one measly hour
• He was following Shannan and she was running away from him , not to him, initially I thought why the hell would she stay in Brewers house if she was going to be killed in there? then I thought about it and seems she did not want to leave with Pak , this is substantiated by Coletti's statement that she took off when she saw his headlights
• Pak spoke with Sherre Gilbert and she stated that in the days following Shannan's disappearance, Pak told her "I have an alibi" , you can watch for yourself in this episode of Investigation Discovery

The last point is one I was unaware of as I just watched the episode today. Why would he state he has an alibi? Is that something innocent people are concerned with?

It was a typo. Thanks for pointing it out, will edit. The episode is still showing on iTunes for me.

I didn’t know that about Pak either. Odd. Why would he need an alibi when it was known he was there? Maybe he intended to deny it at first then gave up that idea when it became clear it wasn’t going to fly?

Will try and PM you about the human trafficking later. Housework calls!

 

[Sallyla]

Interesting theory, but why did you mention Meghan instead of Shannan? Meghan was being pimped by Akeem Cruz not Alex Diaz.

I think this is just a mistake... your points are valid just consider that Michael Pak was driving Shannan around for a year so her boyfriend Alex would've known of him.

Heres what bugs me about Pak, besides for his checkered past:

• Says it was dark and hard to see, but leaves at dawn when the sun is rising after looking for one measly hour
• He was following Shannan and she was running away from him , not to him, initially I thought why the hell would she stay in Brewers house if she was going to be killed in there? then I thought about it and seems she did not want to leave with Pak , this is substantiated by Coletti's statement that she took off when she saw his headlights
• Pak spoke with Sherre Gilbert and she stated that in the days following Shannan's disappearance, Pak told her "I have an alibi" , you can watch for yourself in this episode of Investigation Discovery

The last point is one I was unaware of as I just watched the episode today. Why would he state he has an alibi? Is that something innocent people are concerned with?

It was a typo. Thanks for pointing it out, will edit. The episode is still showing on iTunes for me.

I didn’t know that about Pak either. Odd. Why would he need an alibi when it was known he was there? Maybe he intended to deny it at first then gave up that idea when it became clear it wasn’t going to fly?

Will try and PM you about the human trafficking later. Housework calls!

 

[eagleyeseymour]

Hi All,

The episode has not been deleted. We recently re-ordered the mini-episodes and bonus content so that people could binge more easily. If you're listening on Apple, please do so through Apple Podcasts and not iTunes. If on Spotify or another service, just scroll down to find it.

Here's a direct link: ‎LISK: Long Island Serial Killer: 911 Tapes Released on Apple Podcasts

Thanks and keep listening!

Thank you for all you do @Mopac Megalo ! Appreciate the clarification, I now see the episode has been bumped down to 4/15/20... sorry for any confusion.

 

[Sallyla]

Oh another thing, I forgot.

If you look at Pak’s earlier account, he says that Brewer called him at 5am to ask him to remove SG. See link from Dec 2010:

Boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert recount hours just before Jersey City woman went missing

In his later account (inc lost girls) he says that JB left his house, walked to MP’s vehicle, knocked on the window and asked him to come in to remove SG.

Why the change? I think the most obvious explanation is that MP, when phone records began to be collected etc, changed his story because he knew phone records etc would show that the call never happened.

But if JB had walked out to summon him, why didn’t he just say that in the first place?

The obvious explanation to that is that JB never summoned MP into his house either by phone or on foot. And that Michael Pak was already in JB’s house and participating in whatever it was that was scaring SG so much.

 

[Sallyla]

His location changes too. In Dec 2010 he said he was parked outside the Oak Beach entrance. Later he says he was parked outside JB’s house and watched them coming and going.

Why the change? Well when he knew that there was no call, he couldn’t say JB walked all the way to the gatehouse could he?

Oh the tangled webs we weave....

 

[WINDSOR]

For those of you who are more recent followers of this site, and are curious about Michael Pak, here is the link to the thread that has most of the information on him.

Michael Pak

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Idk where to add this info, or if it is already added.

They ID'd Manorville Jane Doe #6. Name to be released soon.
Suffolk Police ID Another Long Island Serial Killer Victim

 

[Fabra]

The timing is interesting, but at least it's movement. Maybe we'll start to see more things like this break now that the tapes are ratcheting up the heat.

 

[hawkshaw]

I think the sad thing about this is the SCPD/DA etc. have been so full of Bullspit that many have a hard time believing anything they say. I would find it hard to believe them even if they had Jesus standing next to them.

 

[Fabra]

We don't know all the Who, Whats, and Whys as to know why someone in authority put it out there NOW. It seems like a compromise to make the announcement without revealing the identity.

SCPD only seems to act when they're under duress. And even with that, it's crumbs.
Throwing this out there on the Friday before a holiday weekend, too...

Makes you wonder how long they've been sitting on this.
Distract and divert...
Now everyone's talking about Jane Doe, not the 911 tapes.

Let's just hope this proves fruitful.

 

[conniecakes]

So true- probably to distract everyone so they forget about the tapes...

 

[hawkshaw]

If there is some nefarious purpose for all of this I don't think PC Hart is part of it. If and when the time comes she has to stand up for the truth she will do it.

 

[WINDSOR]

Let us hope and pray that those who know the truth speak openly and without fear.
After all these years there is much that is hidden. First the principal characters, Joseph Brewer, Michael Pak, Peter Hackett must be open and truthful. The SCPD and DA's Office as well must be open and truthful.

Keeping things hidden serves no one in the long run, that includes everybody involved in the crime and the cover-up, if one exists.

 

[Disco1]

For those of you who are more recent followers of this site, and are curious about Michael Pak, here is the link to the thread that has most of the information on him.

Michael Pak

Reasons I think Michael Pak killed Shannon
1) 1st what Sallyla said below
2) MP and AD didn’t return until May 3rd! SG called 911 on May 1
3). MP gave Maris phone number to Dr H if he heard anything?!?! Why not give MP’s or AD’s?
4)MP DID NOT CALL AD to check on SG, AD called MP!
5) in 2010, MP says"I said 'Shannon, Get a grip. Let's go,' and she said, 'You guys are trying to kill me.' So I said, 'OK, I am leaving.' But then she said, 'Don't go.'"

Maybe MP gave Dr H Maris number bc he thought maybe the dr would be dumb enough to call Mari to see how she was
Maybe MP caught her, killed her, took off her clothes and threw them around and took her money.

Oh another thing, I forgot.

If you look at Pak’s earlier account, he says that Brewer called him at 5am to ask him to remove SG. See link from Dec 2010:

Boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert recount hours just before Jersey City woman went missing

In his later account (inc lost girls) he says that JB left his house, walked to MP’s vehicle, knocked on the window and asked him to come in to remove SG.

Why the change? I think the most obvious explanation is that MP, when phone records began to be collected etc, changed his story because he knew phone records etc would show that the call never happened.

But if JB had walked out to summon him, why didn’t he just say that in the first place?

The obvious explanation to that is that JB never summoned MP into his house either by phone or on foot. And that Michael Pak was already in JB’s house and participating in whatever it was that was scaring SG so much.

 

[Disco1]

Boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert recount hours just before Jersey City woman went missing
The boyfriend and the driver of Shannon Maria Gilbert, of Jersey City, said today that they frantically searched for her days after she went missing on Long Island on May 1. Authorities believe she is one of four decomposed female...
www.nj.com