Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[White_Rabbit]

In Dr. Michael Baden's letter of February 11, 2016 to John Ray he writes, "She was still wearing deteriorating fragments of clothing: a white or tan shirt, black brassiere, thong panties and blue denim jeans." This would contradict Shannan being found without her jeans on.

 

[White_Rabbit]

My belief is that Shannan had been choked at some point by Joseph Brewer, which in turn caused the fracture of the horns of her hyoid. The Medical Examiner's report also shows a hole in the center of Shannan's hyoid.

There is a procedure used in emergency medicine in which drugs may be administered intraosseous.

"Intraosseous infusion (IO) is the process of injecting medications, fluids, or blood products directly into the marrow of a bone; this provides a non-collapsible entry point into the systemic venous system."

Could the hole in Shannan's hyoid have been caused by Peter Hackett attempting intraosseous infusion of drugs on her?

 

[Trinitee]

My belief is that Shannan had been choked at some point by Joseph Brewer, which in turn caused the fracture of the horns of her hyoid. The Medical Examiner's report also shows a hole in the center of Shannan's hyoid.

There is a procedure used in emergency medicine in which drugs may be administered intraosseous.

"Intraosseous infusion (IO) is the process of injecting medications, fluids, or blood products directly into the marrow of a bone; this provides a non-collapsible entry point into the systemic venous system."

Could the hole in Shannan's hyoid have been caused by Peter Hackett attempting intraosseous infusion of drugs on her?

I believe the hole in her hyoid bone may be connected to the surgery that put the plates/screws in place on her mandible.

 

[Medic4881]

My belief is that Shannan had been choked at some point by Joseph Brewer, which in turn caused the fracture of the horns of her hyoid. The Medical Examiner's report also shows a hole in the center of Shannan's hyoid.

There is a procedure used in emergency medicine in which drugs may be administered intraosseous.

"Intraosseous infusion (IO) is the process of injecting medications, fluids, or blood products directly into the marrow of a bone; this provides a non-collapsible entry point into the systemic venous system."

Could the hole in Shannan's hyoid have been caused by Peter Hackett attempting intraosseous infusion of drugs on her?

So as for IO med administration it needs to be in a large bone where you access the bone marrow. I do these procedures regularly. You would NEVER use the hyoid bone. It is not a site to access the bone marrow. The sites are generally the humerus bone of the arm. The proximal and distal tibia bone. In rare occurrence the sternum. The sternum is very rarely used because it interferes with cardiopulmonary resuscitation. There is other procedures that could explain the hole in the hyoid. Such as a needle cricothyrotomy. Which is performed when a patient is choking and they don’t have an airway. It’s done in emergency medicine. As for intraosseous administration of drugs is impossible to administer drugs through the hyoid bone.

 

[Medic4881]

I Love the LISK podcast with all my heart! I think they have the best information that I have heard while looking into this case. I was slightly disappointed with their interpretation of Shannon’s 911 call. To me it seems that Shannon is fearful of someone outside. I feel like her pleading with Pak to please take her home because he is part of a bigger plan for that evening. She is pleading for him. Not to betray her. And she just wants to go home. Like please Mike you know me. Don’t do this to me. She said at one point she would say that she was lying. Maybe she was an informant for something bigger and now she is trying to get out of the situation. Maybe she is actually at brewers for another reason Along with escorting. We only know that she was at brewers for prostitution from Michael Pak and brewer. What if they were supplying a resident of Oak Beach with drugs for these sex parties that we know were / are happening. That would def support the coverup. This is only my opinion after reading the info about her upcoming court date. Take escorting off the table and then listen to her call again.

 

[3Patriots]

So as for IO med administration it needs to be in a large bone where you access the bone marrow. I do these procedures regularly. You would NEVER use the hyoid bone. It is not a site to access the bone marrow. The sites are generally the humerus bone of the arm. The proximal and distal tibia bone. In rare occurrence the sternum. The sternum is very rarely used because it interferes with cardiopulmonary resuscitation. There is other procedures that could explain the hole in the hyoid. Such as a needle cricothyrotomy. Which is performed when a patient is choking and they don’t have an airway. It’s done in emergency medicine. As for intraosseous administration of drugs is impossible to administer drugs through the hyoid bone.

Atlantic Oyster Drill
Very plausible

 

[Medic4881]

Atlantic Oyster Drill
Very plausible

Very much so

 

[White_Rabbit]

Atlantic Oyster Drill
Very plausible

Please elaborate.

 

[3Patriots]

Please elaborate.

Urosalpinx cinerea - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Photo is the workings of this animal.

 

[cnmccarthy]

My belief is that Shannan had been choked at some point by Joseph Brewer, which in turn caused the fracture of the horns of her hyoid. The Medical Examiner's report also shows a hole in the center of Shannan's hyoid.

There is a procedure used in emergency medicine in which drugs may be administered intraosseous.

"Intraosseous infusion (IO) is the process of injecting medications, fluids, or blood products directly into the marrow of a bone; this provides a non-collapsible entry point into the systemic venous system."

Could the hole in Shannan's hyoid have been caused by Peter Hackett attempting intraosseous infusion of drugs on her?

The hyoid bone would not typically be an option imo

 

[WINDSOR]

I am not in any way medically knowledgeable, but I think if somebody choked Shannan hard enough that her hyoid bone was damaged, I do not think she would be able to walk or run very far.

 

[PillowofWinds]

I believe it is Gus who says it was taped over due to the long time gap and the residents not knowing that any crime had been committed. Thoughts?

I think it is insane that between GC and BB calling...Tom Canning sounding nervous about a man chasing a woman...why on earth would the police not INSTANTLY request to see the video...it was early enough where it could have made a difference in finding her. So not only did the cops not ask to see it, but none of the residents say hey, this is kind of crazy for our close knit gated community, let's check the video. Hmmmm definitely a lot of folks lying and covering up.

 

[PillowofWinds]

Does anyone else think it is possible that Shannan was at another house before Brewer's? She sounds scared to go outside. Is it possible they were elsewhere first and she ran into Brewer's to hide from whatever was outside? Possibly a neighbor and buddy of Brewer's? It might sound far fetched, but there are so many unknowns because we really only have what Pak and Brewer say to go on. And they are clearly not telling the truth.

 

[JJBONES]

I have not seen much discussion regarding Shannan's 911 call and the fact that she kept asking them why they were using her real name. Although I don't know what it would be, I keep thinking this is a tell-tale sign of some sort. Maybe I am reading too much into it. That just stands out to me that she must have thought she was in trouble for her real name to be used.

Also, this is just my opinion, but I think Peter Hackett gave her a sedative or something at Joseph Brewer's request. Either she was taken to his house or he was summoned to Brewer's. I think whatever she was given is what created her panic and fear. Perhaps she reacted to it in a hyper-mania sort of way. Sometimes sedatives and medications can have a hyper effect before the sedation set in. Either he didn't realize when he contacted Mari Gilbert what had happened to Shannan or he was covering his butt. Again this is just my own speculation.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I wonder who else was at Joseph Brewer’s house that night. I suspect maybe sons of persons of interest?

 

[White_Rabbit]

I have not seen much discussion regarding Shannan's 911 call and the fact that she kept asking them why they were using her real name. Although I don't know what it would be, I keep thinking this is a tell-tale sign of some sort. Maybe I am reading too much into it. That just stands out to me that she must have thought she was in trouble for her real name to be used.

Also, this is just my opinion, but I think Peter Hackett gave her a sedative or something at Joseph Brewer's request. Either she was taken to his house or he was summoned to Brewer's. I think whatever she was given is what created her panic and fear. Perhaps she reacted to it in a hyper-mania sort of way. Sometimes sedatives and medications can have a hyper effect before the sedation set in. Either he didn't realize when he contacted Mari Gilbert what had happened to Shannan or he was covering his butt. Again this is just my own speculation.

Escorts use an alias when communicating with clients. Shannan used either Madison or Angelina as an alias. That is why she was questioning Michael Pak about him referring to her by her given name Shannan.

 

[JJBONES]

Escorts use an alias when communicating with clients. Shannan used either Madison or Angelina as an alias. That is why she was questioning Michael Pak about him referring to her by her given name Shannan.

I understand that they use aliases. That's why I wondered why they were calling her by her real name. I was not clear if it was just MP using her real name or him and JB. It seems to me for anyone to use her real name in the presence of a client or for a client to possibly know her real name would be a red flag.

 

[Girlinterrupted]

I wonder who else was at Joseph Brewer’s house that night. I suspect maybe sons of persons of interest?

I have thought about this for years.
If I go back I'm sure I can find a post I wrote after the first time I read the depositions.

I wondered what might you be willing to do to protect your son if your son made a mistake. What might an entire community do to protect your son, who they've watched grow up?
What might a community be willing to do to protect 2 best friends with their entire lives ahead of them?
Would a parent be willing to lie?
Would a parent be willing to insert themselves into an investigation in order to divert blame onto themself?

I have my own understanding of what may have happened that Friday night, early Saturday morning, but I've never gotten rid of that feeling I had when I finished reading the depositions.

What lengths would a parent and community be willing to go to to protect their child if that child made a very bad mistake.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I have thought about this for years.
If I go back I'm sure I can find a post I wrote after the first time I read the depositions.

I wondered what might you be willing to do to protect your son if your son made a mistake. What might an entire community do to protect your son, who they've watched grow up?
What might a community be willing to do to protect 2 best friends with their entire lives ahead of them?
Would a parent be willing to lie?
Would a parent be willing to insert themselves into an investigation in order to divert blame onto themself?

I have my own understanding of what may have happened that Friday night, early Saturday morning, but I've never gotten rid of that feeling I had when I finished reading the depositions.

What lengths would a parent and community be willing to go to to protect their child if that child made a very bad mistake.

Shannan_Gilbert_911_Call_Transcription_Rough0526​

When I heard the unknown male voice on the 911 call I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I had listened to the call over and over again when I attempted my own transcription and was never able to distinguish any voices other than Shannan, Michael Pak, Joseph Brewer and the 911 operators. I had always felt certain that the only people in the house that morning were Shannan, Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer.

The audio in transcription in the link above was somehow cleaned up enough that I was able to hear what to me had been unintelligible before.

When I first heard the unknown male voice say something at 5:10 about a puppy, I thought that the voice was in the background of the 911 call center, but then shortly after I heard the Joseph Brewer say, "Come'on, I'll go upstairs, you leave" and the voice said, "I'll leave, too", to which Joseph Brewer responded, "Everyone go upstairs". It is not transcribed but I heard "Everyone go upstairs" perfectly at 5:26.

If it were only Shannan, Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer, why would he say "Everyone go upstairs" if he were referring to himself, Shannan and Michael Pak, considering he was offering to go upstairs as a way to coax Shannan into leaving.

At 3:05 Joseph Brewer says, "We were all doing all kinds of drugs". Who is he referring to? As far as we know Michael Pak was sitting outside in his car almost the whole time uninvolved in drug use, why would he refer to himself and Shannan as "We all"?

At 13:17 Michael Pak says, "If we're plotting then why- why don't we all..." You would not refer to yourself and one other person as "we all".

There was at least one other person in Joseph Brewer's house, possibly more.

When I came to that conclusion it dawned on me that it is very possible that other young men from Oak Beach were also at Joseph Brewer's house.

I believe parents who love and care about there children would go to great lengths to protect them from something they may have done wrong. (If you believe OJ is innocent and I Can Prove It by William Dear, think OJ Simpson and Jason Simpson)

On another note At 8:49 Michael Pak says, " I don't know why... why are you doing this?" to which Shannan responds, "Alright, I'll say I was lying". There is a noticeable disconnect in the conversation at that point, and I feel like there must have been something said in between those two statements that was edited out, because Shannan's response doesn't seem to make sense in that context. This would go toward your theory about the 911 not being in it's entirety.

The 911 call is not in it's entirety.

 

[Girlinterrupted]

Shannan_Gilbert_911_Call_Transcription_Rough0526​

When I heard the unknown male voice on the 911 call I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I had listened to the call over and over again when I attempted my own transcription and was never able to distinguish any voices other than Shannan, Michael Pak, Joseph Brewer and the 911 operators. I had always felt certain that the only people in the house that morning were Shannan, Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer.

The audio in transcription in the link above was somehow cleaned up enough that I was able to hear what to me had been unintelligible before.

When I first heard the unknown male voice say something at 5:10 about a puppy, I thought that the voice was in the background of the 911 call center, but then shortly after I heard the Joseph Brewer say, "Come'on, I'll go upstairs, you leave" and the voice said, "I'll leave, too", to which Joseph Brewer responded, "Everyone go upstairs". It is not transcribed but I heard "Everyone go upstairs" perfectly at 5:26.

If it were only Shannan, Michael Pak and Joseph Brewer, why would he say "Everyone go upstairs" if he were referring to himself, Shannan and Michael Pak, considering he was offering to go upstairs as a way to coax Shannan into leaving.

At 3:05 Joseph Brewer says, "We were all doing all kinds of drugs". Who is he referring to? As far as we know Michael Pak was sitting outside in his car almost the whole time uninvolved in drug use, why would he refer to himself and Shannan as "We all"?

At 13:17 Michael Pak says, "If we're plotting then why- why don't we all..." You would not refer to yourself and one other person as "we all".

There was at least one other person in Joseph Brewer's house, possibly more.

When I came to that conclusion it dawned on me that it is very possible that other young men from Oak Beach were also at Joseph Brewer's house.

I believe parents who love and care about there children would go to great lengths to protect them from something they may have done wrong. (If you believe OJ is innocent and I Can Prove It by William Dear, think OJ Simpson and Jason Simpson)

On another note At 8:49 Michael Pak says, " I don't know why... why are you doing this?" to which Shannan responds, "Alright, I'll say I was lying". There is a noticeable disconnect in the conversation at that point, and I feel like there must have been something said in between those two statements that was edited out, because Shannan's response doesn't seem to make sense in that context. This would go toward your theory about the 911 not being in it's entirety.

I actually think the last few minutes of the call were chopped. There could be bits throughout. But if the call has been sped up, that leaves minutes unaccounted for.

I couldn't heard the bit about a puppy. Could be my ears. But I've seen pictures of the interior of Brewer's house and there was a dog food and water bowl on the kitchen floor.
Shannan pleading "I'll tell them I was lying" makes alot of sense in the context of the scenario I've been molding over the last 6 months that led to her death. But I'm in a bit of a minority and don't see it discussed much aside from my own posts and one other WS member who presented the theory years before I stumbled into it.