Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[shadowraiths]

This is a continuation of the Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert thread. Quoting from the original to clarify why this thread was started in the first place.

While there are mixed opinions with regard to Shannan's relationship to this case, we do know that, had she not made the 911 call, and had not her family's persistence in finding their loved one missing, these other murdered victims may never have been found. ( link ) Now, it certainly may turn out Shannan's case is completely unrelated to these. Then again, in light of proximity, the fact that she also used craigslist, and the odd witness accounts? What's that old saying? Imnsho, that's not a coincidence. that's a pattern.

That said, Shannan's missing person's thread contains useful info along with photos ( link ). There's also a wealth of information on the site set up by/for her family regarding both her case as well as the cases of the other victims. ( link )

That said, please do not attack each other and/or make accusations against each other. Also, bashing victims' family members is against ToS. As is sleuthing these family members. Discussing what they may have or not said in media interviews, is okay. Just please be respectful.

Previous thread(s):

Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert​

 

[WINDSOR]

Based on the reports that police arrived at Oak Beach at 6:10 am,

I have done some response time calculations for a police officer to respond to the Oak Beach gate house from five different locations of the Suffolk County Police Department.

Travel time from Suffolk County Police Department Stations to 108 The Fairway, Babylon Oak Beach.
Obeying speed limits, and no sirens or lights. Google travel times are as follows.

555 Babylon Farmingdale Rd, West Babylon………………. 15 minutes 13.2 miles
1071 Park Ave, Huntington………………………………………. 23 minutes 19.6 miles
11787, 727 Veterans Memorial Hwy, Smithtown……………… 23 minutes 18.5 miles
Marine Bureau Great River, NY…………………………………. 24 minutes 20 miles
30 Yaphank Ave, Yaphank, NY…………………………….. 35 minutes, 31 miles

From the end of SG’s 911 call at 5:14 am; police should have arrived between 5:28 am and 5:48 am not 6:10am

From the end of GC’s 911 call at 5:24 am; Police should have arrived between 5:39 am and 5:59 am not 6:10 am

These arrival times would have been less if the police officer was on patrol closer to Oak Beach.

In the worst case scenario, not being dispatched until GC’s call ended and not using sirens or lights, obeying the speed limits and traveling from the furthest station away, the police should have arrived 11 minutes sooner than actually reported. Likely MP would still have been at Oak Beach.

If the police had had been dispatched when SG’s call ended in the worst case scenario they would have arrived by 5:48 am and chances SG would be found alive.

Imagine even if a car was dispatched 15 minutes after SG’s 911 call started at 4:51 am from the farthest precinct. That car should have arrived at the latest at Oak Beach at 5:41am.
I am not sure when Barbara Brennan called 911.

I am not in LE and do not know how cars are dispatched by 911. So my assumptions may be way off for any number of reasons that I am not aware of. I do know that that early morning traffic was light or non-existent, roads were dry and visibility was excellent

Questions
1) When was the first Police car dispatched?
2) Where was that first Police car dispatched from?
3) Did the car go directly to Oak Beach, or were there delays or detours?
4) Did the police car use lights, sirens and travel as fast as safely possible?
5) Since Barbara Brennan’s call to 911 was the third call from Oak Beach, was there any communication after that call to the officer responding to ‘hurry’?



For all you Oak Beach conspiracy fans, was there any communication to dispatch from anyone that could have delayed the police response to Oak Beach, such as.

‘Hello 911 dispatch, this is ____________ I am a ________________ and work with the SCPD, I am taking care of that Oak Beach 911 call, and you do not have to send an officer’.



We know GC would have given 911 perfect info on location, we might assume that if 911 sent a car to Jones Beach area previously based on SG’s call, the response to GC should have been no longer than about 16 minutes.

Even if SG’s 911 call is not released to the public, there should be a public record of when police cars were dispatched by the 911 center and other information related to this incident.

 

[Robert Anderson]

In the worst case scenario, not being dispatched until GC’s call ended and not using sirens or lights, obeying the speed limits and traveling from the furthest station away, the police should have arrived 11 minutes sooner than actually reported.

Dormer has been adamant that the police arrived earlier. I have a hard time imagining a reason for him to lie about it, and I can easily see why conspiracy theorists would want to push it back.

(And yes I know about Gus Coletti's estimate about the arrival time. Eyewitness testimony can be less reliable than you'd think at times.)

 

[Hotpotato]

IF police really arrived at 6:10, it would seem either SG would have still been alive, or whoever killed her would have been present. It makes me think if she were alive and police came, they either made a piss poor effort to locate her or announce themselves or she didn't want them to find her and you have to ask yourself why?

Regarding response time, there's really no way to tell. There's just way too many things that play into it. I'm assuming they didn't actually know her location until GC's call and if they didn't put it together he was calling about the same woman who called earlier claiming they were trying to kill her, then it might not be something they run emergency code, lights/sirens the works for. If GC states something like "this girl is eradic, maybe one drugs but she's already left my house" then I highly doubt they would even think to expedite things since basically they didn't understand the gravity of the situation (or perceived situation if you think her death was an accident)

 

[fred&edna]

I can't remember, did Pak tell LE (when assisting Diaz in filing the missing person report) that SG was on the phone with 911? When did LE interview Brewer... did he mention her 911 call? I still haven't understood why it took LE months to search for SG.

Also, it seems likely the 911 operator on SG's call heard her (SG) talking to Gus Coletti. I've always wondered if the operator ever mentioned the call to anyone. Do operators file written reports or keep notes on 911 calls?

 

[kanzz]

Dormer has been adamant that the police arrived earlier. I have a hard time imagining a reason for him to lie about it, and I can easily see why conspiracy theorists would want to push it back.

(And yes I know about Gus Coletti's estimate about the arrival time. Eyewitness testimony can be less reliable than you'd think at times.)

BBM
Conspiracy Theorists? What's that about? What conspiracy theory?

Is it possible that this issue fits the definition of "conspiracy"?
Definition, conspiracy: a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal.
On the surface, it would seem so.

In 1967, the CIA created the label "Conspiracy Theorists" to attack anyone who challenges the "Official" narrative. (In that case, I guess I'm in good company.)
source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...heorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge

 

[DQN]

Based on the reports that police arrived at Oak Beach at 6:10 am,

I have done some response time calculations for a police officer to respond to the Oak Beach gate house from five different locations of the Suffolk County Police Department.

Travel time from Suffolk County Police Department Stations to 108 The Fairway, Babylon Oak Beach.
Obeying speed limits, and no sirens or lights. Google travel times are as follows.

555 Babylon Farmingdale Rd, West Babylon………………. 15 minutes 13.2 miles
1071 Park Ave, Huntington………………………………………. 23 minutes 19.6 miles
11787, 727 Veterans Memorial Hwy, Smithtown……………… 23 minutes 18.5 miles
Marine Bureau Great River, NY…………………………………. 24 minutes 20 miles
30 Yaphank Ave, Yaphank, NY…………………………….. 35 minutes, 31 miles

From the end of SG’s 911 call at 5:14 am; police should have arrived between 5:28 am and 5:48 am not 6:10am

From the end of GC’s 911 call at 5:24 am; Police should have arrived between 5:39 am and 5:59 am not 6:10 am

These arrival times would have been less if the police officer was on patrol closer to Oak Beach.

In the worst case scenario, not being dispatched until GC’s call ended and not using sirens or lights, obeying the speed limits and traveling from the furthest station away, the police should have arrived 11 minutes sooner than actually reported. Likely MP would still have been at Oak Beach.

If the police had had been dispatched when SG’s call ended in the worst case scenario they would have arrived by 5:48 am and chances SG would be found alive.

Imagine even if a car was dispatched 15 minutes after SG’s 911 call started at 4:51 am from the farthest precinct. That car should have arrived at the latest at Oak Beach at 5:41am.
I am not sure when Barbara Brennan called 911.

I am not in LE and do not know how cars are dispatched by 911. So my assumptions may be way off for any number of reasons that I am not aware of. I do know that that early morning traffic was light or non-existent, roads were dry and visibility was excellent

Questions
1) When was the first Police car dispatched?
2) Where was that first Police car dispatched from?
3) Did the car go directly to Oak Beach, or were there delays or detours?
4) Did the police car use lights, sirens and travel as fast as safely possible?
5) Since Barbara Brennan’s call to 911 was the third call from Oak Beach, was there any communication after that call to the officer responding to ‘hurry’?



For all you Oak Beach conspiracy fans, was there any communication to dispatch from anyone that could have delayed the police response to Oak Beach, such as.

‘Hello 911 dispatch, this is ____________ I am a ________________ and work with the SCPD, I am taking care of that Oak Beach 911 call, and you do not have to send an officer’.



We know GC would have given 911 perfect info on location, we might assume that if 911 sent a car to Jones Beach area previously based on SG’s call, the response to GC should have been no longer than about 16 minutes.

Even if SG’s 911 call is not released to the public, there should be a public record of when police cars were dispatched by the 911 center and other information related to this incident.

If they dispatched a helicopter at dawn to ride over marsh they could have found her alive or maybe she was dead and thrown there already.

 

[WINDSOR]

Dormer has been adamant that the police arrived earlier. I have a hard time imagining a reason for him to lie about it, and I can easily see why conspiracy theorists would want to push it back.

(And yes I know about Gus Coletti's estimate about the arrival time. Eyewitness testimony can be less reliable than you'd think at times.)

If Dormer was adamant that police arrived sooner it must be true( if you believe everything else Dormer said as well). But Dormer never said or verified when the officer actually arrived, did he? I am sure logs exist.

BTW why would you believe Dormer's version of events over GC's, so far SCPD testimony has been even less reliable than eyewitnesses.

Secondly if the Police officer arrived sooner than 6:10am he would have run into MP and possibly found SG. Either the officer was there before MP left or after MP left, cannot be both.

To bad those tapes that the SCPD never secured were erased, as then we would know for sure.

The point I was trying to emphasise was when did 911 send a police car to Oak Beach?

 

[Hotpotato]

So police would be dispatched to the location probably by who is closest and not on another call etc. it would not at all be weird for someone to get on and say they'll be em route, so and so can disregard. That happens all the time here for a lot of reasons however that officer would have no guarantee that another officer or agency even if troopers were involved would not show up to back them up or "agency assist". However if that did happen they would probably know from the radio or gps maps of cars where people were and if others were coming. But yes there should absolutely be a record of who responded and a report. I mean unless it was SC and it "disappeared" absolutely something is missing that would be easy to prove or disprove if they wanted to

 

[JJBONES]

Maybe they didn't find her because she was not outside at all but inside her killer's house somewhere hidden. Maybe Dr. Peter Hackett had her in his home as his phone call to her mother suggested. I don't believe she died in the marsh trying to get away. I think she was put there after she died. Just my opinion.

 

[Hotpotato]

Maybe they didn't find her because she was not outside at all but inside her killer's house somewhere hidden. Maybe Dr. Peter Hackett had her in his home as his phone call to her mother suggested. I don't believe she died in the marsh trying to get away. I think she was put there after she died. Just my opinion.

I think that it makes sense at some point Hackett came into contact with her, and his call to her mom was a preemptive attempt at covering his tracks in case his DNA was on her or hers was found inside his house. Then, later when the dust had settled and neither had happened he claimed to have not made those calls. Why else would he interject himself into this case. I mean until that call he likely would have remained a non factor.

 

[Kali&89]

My mind keeps going back to Joseph Brewer in regards to Shannon's disappearance, first his story about her asking him, has he ever come across a transvestite sex worker? and then he suddenly thinks she's a man and he then wants her out..after spending 3 hours with her he suddenly thinks she's a man? And then a transvestite sex worker is later found with his head smashed in on Gilgo beach... Second, he fits the profile of LISK that's been published on several MSM sites,40ish white male ,well educated and successful drives a nice vehicle. Next, there has been speculation that LISK is a seasonal killer operating in the summer possibly when his wife and kids are away etc,well Brewers main home was in West Islip and the Oak Beach place was his summer home. Here's a link to an blog post that shows a shot of his West Islip home http://animalnewyork.com/2010/west-islip-man-was-only-guilty-of-maybe-banging-a-hooker/. Also, people say he's been officially cleared but as of June 2011 it seems he hadn't been,,here's a snippet and a link in regards to that ,Diaz said he was never asked to take a lie detector test. Pak said he took one and passed with "flying colors." Brewer said he voluntarily took one but wasn’t told his results. Brewer also said he was cleared as a suspect, but when asked about Brewer last week, Suffolk County police would not comment. Here's the link to the article, http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html .I couldn't find anything to confirm that he was officially cleared at a later date. Lastly,Brewer claimed Shannon wasn't there for sex,well then what was she there for then? Maybe his thing wasn't sex but rather to strangle the girls without having sex and that's what happened to Shannon maybe he strangled her but not enough to kill her and she broke away and was able to call 911 and that why Shannon was so terrified.

 

[WINDSOR]

My mind keeps going back to Joseph Brewer in regards to Shannon's disappearance, first his story about her asking him, has he ever come across a transvestite sex worker? and then he suddenly thinks she's a man and he then wants her out..after spending 3 hours with her he suddenly thinks she's a man? And then a transvestite sex worker is later found with his head smashed in on Gilgo beach... Second, he fits the profile of LISK that's been published on several MSM sites,40ish white male ,well educated and successful drives a nice vehicle. Next, there has been speculation that LISK is a seasonal killer operating in the summer possibly when his wife and kids are away etc,well Brewers main home was in West Islip and the Oak Beach place was his summer home. Here's a link to an blog post that shows a shot of his West Islip home http://animalnewyork.com/2010/west-islip-man-was-only-guilty-of-maybe-banging-a-hooker/. Also, people say he's been officially cleared but as of June 2011 it seems he hadn't been,,here's a snippet and a link in regards to that ,Diaz said he was never asked to take a lie detector test. Pak said he took one and passed with "flying colors." Brewer said he voluntarily took one but wasn’t told his results. Brewer also said he was cleared as a suspect, but when asked about Brewer last week, Suffolk County police would not comment. Here's the link to the article, http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/jersey_city_prostitute_still_m.html .I couldn't find anything to confirm that he was officially cleared at a later date. Lastly,Brewer claimed Shannon wasn't there for sex,well then what was she there for then? Maybe his thing wasn't sex but rather to strangle the girls without having sex and that's what happened to Shannon maybe he strangled her but not enough to kill her and she broke away and was able to call 911 and that why Shannon was so terrified.

Not sure about JB and attempting to strangle SG, as she called 911 from inside JB's house. Not likely he would try to strangle her then allow her to call 911. I believe JB knows a lot more about events related to Oak Beach. He also might be very scared to say anything, if he knows who the killer is.

 

[NY Ranger Fan]

Not sure about JB and attempting to strangle SG, as she called 911 from inside JB's house. Not likely he would try to strangle her then allow her to call 911. I believe JB knows a lot more about events related to Oak Beach. He also might be very scared to say anything, if he knows who the killer is.

My belief is simple, where there is smoke, there is fire. Just too many planets lining up to exclude Brewer for me.

 

[Emerold]

Apologies in advance if this has been covered already and it is my first post here - I am a new registered user.

I have been watching 48 hrs on their report regarding this case and I have a theory regarding Shannon Gilbert.

[video=youtube;gOphCNVnCJM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOphCNVnCJM[/video]

From 1:10:00 in the link is where it gets interesting.

My thoughts on Shannon are that she suffered from a drug induced psychosis brought upon by illicit substances. These substance came from the doctor who was running a sideline business of supply. He suppled to the john who then gave the drug to Shannon.
The doctor insinuated himself in the case out of fear that his racket would be found out. He was trying to cover his tracks.

 

[Robert Anderson]

My thoughts on Shannon are that she suffered from a . These substance came from the doctor who was running a sideline business of supply. He suppled to the john who then gave the drug to Shannon.
The doctor insinuated himself in the case out of fear that his racket would be found out. He was trying to cover his tracks.

I think this hypothesis is a far more reasonable one than some of the things I've read here.

However, since it appears Dr. Hapless is only casually dating reality, why not simplify matters to "the john gave Shannan something that induced drug induced psychosis"? Why even include PH in the timeline or connect him to the case?

 

[WINDSOR]

In an interview, Michael Pak stated that when he went into Brewer's house at JB's request.
MP found SG behind the couch on the phone with 911. He asked SG some questions to ascertain if she was in some sort of drug induced 'state'. MP claimed SG was lucid. Now if SG was lucid while in JB's house, the alternatives are a) MP was lying and SG was not lucid, or b) SG was lucid and she was not in a drug induced psychosis.

PCH enters the timeline a) because he introduced himself to the case by calling SG's mother. b) because SG was last seen running in the general direction of PCH's house, c) because SG's clothes and body were found in relative close proximity to PCH's house.

If PCH never called SG's mother and stated he saw and treated SG, he would not be part of the story.

BTW SG and JB went to the CVS pharmacy together that night, ostensibly to purchase 'lube' and playing cards. Was a prescription also filled? What was prescribed and who was the prescribing doctor and who was the patient. Pharmacies keep detailed records, this info should be readily available off the record. (Doctor-patient privacy and confidentiality notwithstanding.)

 

[Hotpotato]

In an interview, Michael Pak stated that when he went into Brewer's house at JB's request.
MP found SG behind the couch on the phone with 911. He asked SG some questions to ascertain if she was in some sort of drug induced 'state'. MP claimed SG was lucid. Now if SG was lucid while in JB's house, the alternatives are a) MP was lying and SG was not lucid, or b) SG was lucid and she was not in a drug induced psychosis.

PCH enters the timeline a) because he introduced himself to the case by calling SG's mother. b) because SG was last seen running in the general direction of PCH's house, c) because SG's clothes and body were found in relative close proximity to PCH's house.

If PCH never called SG's mother and stated he saw and treated SG, he would not be part of the story.

BTW SG and JB went to the CVS pharmacy together that night, ostensibly to purchase 'lube' and playing cards. Was a prescription also filled? What was prescribed and who was the prescribing doctor and who was the patient. Pharmacies keep detailed records, this info should be readily available off the record. (Doctor-patient privacy and confidentiality notwithstanding.)

I have long believed the CVS was a huge piece of seemingly ignored evidence. I'd be very interested in seeing perscription info if it existed, receipts, security info. I'm sure that's all gone now unless it's in a police file somewhere.

 

[fred&edna]

I think this hypothesis is a far more reasonable one than some of the things I've read here.

However, since it appears Dr. Hapless is only casually dating reality, why not simplify matters to "the john gave Shannan something that induced drug induced psychosis"? Why even include PH in the timeline or connect him to the case?

I'm glad you've found a theory here that you consider reasonable, but... I'm confused as to why you refer to Dr Hackett as "hapless". He admitted calling SG's family which requires a decision to do so... no luck, no fate, nor haplessness involved.

Dr Hackett is an oddball but I haven't seen any reports that he's mentally unstable (i.e. casually dating reality).

 

[DaisyChains]

The reason why it took SCPD police longer to respond was b/c SG's 911 call was routed over to NYC dispatch, not Long Island dispatch.