Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

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GC never used the word screaming and BB hasn't talked to anyone except the police and police reported that whoever knocked on her door was gone by the time she answered it. Verone wasn't there and anything he was paid to say on a glorified advertisement is suspect.

While your post was not directed to me...

Ya know, I suppose she could have been whispering "Help me"

"Gus Coletti was shaving when he heard a bang on the door of his house on a barrier island in New York.
"Help me! Help me!" a woman pleaded when he opened the door, shaving cream still on his face"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/04/14/new.york.serial.killing.witness/

But here... is a QUOTE

“She knocked on my door screaming, ‘Help me! Help me!’” says Coletti, looking into the distance. “She wasn’t making any sense, she was totally spaced out.”

http://archive.longislandpress.com/2011/04/14/long-island-serial-killer-beach-bodies/3/
 
As I said earlier in this thread, I was assaulted as I walked home late at night, my attacker told me he was going to kill me and I knew he was as the viciousness of his assault made that clear...The blind panic which over comes you when you realize you are about to killed can not be understood unless you've experienced it... its primal heartpounding,mindracing out of control, fight or flight in full force...I too ran away from safety under the influence of this panic... it took several days for the sense of panic to fully leave me....looking back at my actions, running away from my rescuers, were completely illogical,,,don't write off Shannons decisions that night as a case of silly hysteria... when I read about Shannons actions I fully understand the state of terror she was in and why she made the decisions she did
The sense of that kind of panic may never leave. Ptsd

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I've been reading Lost Girls and I was just looking at the map of the location of Shannon's last movements and it occurred to me that the placement of her personal items seems staged...all of her personal items, her shoes and jeans are tossed into the a small area at the beginning of a small pathway which leads into the marsh. However,her body is found .according to the police, only a few meters from ocean parkway. I think whoever killed her knew there would be a search for Shannon so they needed to make it look as though she ran into marsh on her own and died accidently so they placed her personal items where they knew the cops would find them. The placement would lead the cops to believe she tossed her personal items there herself and died an accidental death in the marsh and it would lead the cops away from putting the heat on anyone in Oak Beach re Shannon's murder.The police described the location of where they found Shannon's Identifying items as at the beginning of a path that leads right into the marsh...Here is a quote from the Lost Girls spoken by police commissioner Dormer re the pathway, 'Where she went it its like a little path I was down there, you could make it through there,So she went in and now your there disoriented. Seriously!... I find it extremely odd that Shannon would find the location of that small pathway in the dark but someone who knew the area would know exactly where to find that path. I believe whoever killed her placed her personal items there for searchers to find and then the drove onto the parkway with Shannon's body and dumped her just off the shoulder of the parkway.Here's a quote from the Lost Girls as to where Shannon's body was found "discovered----nearly fully intact, just steps from Ocean Parkway---the remains of Shannon Gilbert.
Here's a couple of other points that make me uncomfortable with the accidental death scenario,
1.Shannons mother didn't believe the shoes found with Shannon's other effects were Shannon's
2.The police describe the jeans they found as being ripped, Shannon would not have had the strength to tear a pair of blue jeans off her body and she didn't have them on her body long enough during her supposed mad dash through the marsh to have them torn from her body due to contact with reeds in the marsh...once a again ,seriously! her assailant tore Shannon's jeans from her body and tossed them in the marsh
3. Shannon's personal items were found directly behind Peter Hackett's house ,the crazy who called her mother and then denied it and then finally had to admit it when his phone records caught him in a lie...His behaviour is not normal its insane!
4.Here a quote from Dormer about conditions in the swamp and why Shannon hadn't been found in the swamp for almost two years.""Its a wild area,swampy.People don't go in there.You need a machete to get through this stuff" But we are supposed to believe Shannon made it through there and with no shoes or pants on!
4.Finally, Here is a quote from Dormer re Peter Hackett,'Does he look like he could commit a murder?",Dormer asked rhetorically.But then he caught himself."Unless he did.'His smile was unreadable or rather it could be read a number of ways.Did Ted Bundy,Gacey,Garry Ridgeway or BTK look they could commit murder? Don't write PH off because of his appearance.

Quotes are all from Lost Girls by Robert Kolker
I agree with your theory.

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I agree with your theory.

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Let me clarify. I agree that shannan was murdered but not sure who the killer is. I have a poi ring leader for many years now. Always thought it was a group of men and not one sicko killer. Killing women was an entertainment for them. However, I think the group of men want the public to believe it's one sicko killer and thus the call to Melissa's little sister. One thing for certain is this group is the embodiment of evil sludge and so beyond disgusting that there are no words to describe this dark energy.

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Wasn't her statement "they are trying to kill me" that would be more than one person


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Yes, she was murdered but by who? It can't be some random killer her killer has to be some who was at Oak beach that night. I have also thought that a group of men who attended these alleged Oak Beach parties and brought girls their for rough sex and drug use might be responsible for the GB4 murders Maybe sex at these parties escalated to some sort of S&M activities or even worse snuff games or movies. I am also concerned about the apparent connection between Peter Hackett ,the crazy drug prescribing,crazy phone call making Dr whose father wrote a book which included a line about how *advertiser censored* CANT BE REFORMED, Joseph Brewer the guy who likes to hold drug /sex parties for cops and prostitutes at his Oak beach home and now James Burke the corrupt cop who likes *advertiser censored*, prostitutes and violent sex and worked to keep the FBI out of the Gilgo beach investigation...These guys all apparently know each other and I wouldn't be surprised if a pack mentally developed between these guys and the result was the murder of the girls who attended these parties when they" the pack" were all in attendance.Finally,how likely is it that a random killer just happened to be wandering around Oak Beach the night Shannon was running around out there and came across her and decided to kill her?.Her killer has to be someone from Oak Beach, someone whose name we already know, someone who knew she was out there and knew she had to be silenced before she could tell anyone what she had seen or heard at Josephs Brewers house that had caused her to believe she was going to be killed
Let me clarify. I agree that shannan was murdered but not sure who the killer is. I have a poi ring leader for many years now. Always thought it was a group of men and not one sicko killer. Killing women was an entertainment for them. However, I think the group of men want the public to believe it's one sicko killer and thus the call to Melissa's little sister. One thing for certain is this group is the embodiment of evil sludge and so beyond disgusting that there are no words to describe this dark energy.

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You're right it may never truly leave..my heart started to pound when I read Shannon's story...I want justice for her so badly and Im tired of her death being blamed on her.I think all of the men who had contact with her that night should be given lie detector tests and their DNA should be taken..If one of the men who crossed her path that night was LISK he may have committed other crimes before the GB4 and his DNA maybe in a database somewhere..Maybe for an unsolved rape or murder that happened before he became LISK.
 
You're right it may never truly leave..my heart started to pound when I read Shannon's story...I want justice for her so badly and Im tired of her death being blamed on her.I think all of the men who had contact with her that night should be given lie detector tests and their DNA should be taken..If one of the men who crossed her path that night was LISK he may have committed other crimes before the GB4 and his DNA maybe in a database somewhere..Maybe for an unsolved rape or murder that happened before he became LISK.

If I'm not mistaken I believe the men who were directly and admittedly involved did take lie detectors and were thusly cleared because of it. Don't mark my words but Pac and Brewer both took the tests.
 
Shannen wasn't murdered by LISK or anyone, her death was a tragic accident. LISK will not be caught unless people focus on the facts and the facts so far are there's only 4 known victims, the Gilgo 4, all other dumped bodies are different killers.
 
You're right it may never truly leave..my heart started to pound when I read Shannon's story...I want justice for her so badly and Im tired of her death being blamed on her.I think all of the men who had contact with her that night should be given lie detector tests and their DNA should be taken..If one of the men who crossed her path that night was LISK he may have committed other crimes before the GB4 and his DNA maybe in a database somewhere..Maybe for an unsolved rape or murder that happened before he became LISK.
I have PTSD, my ex husband beat the ***** out of me for years and tried to kill me several times... I still struggle everyday and have several triggers that get me everyday and it's been almost 30 years ago....it will never go away you just learn what to do and not do

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You're right it may never truly leave..my heart started to pound when I read Shannon's story...I want justice for her so badly and Im tired of her death being blamed on her.I think all of the men who had contact with her that night should be given lie detector tests and their DNA should be taken..If one of the men who crossed her path that night was LISK he may have committed other crimes before the GB4 and his DNA maybe in a database somewhere..Maybe for an unsolved rape or murder that happened before he became LISK.

They all had lie detector tests and they all passed.
 
They all had lie detector tests and they all passed.

If that is true then I wonder who administered the tests. I wonder if the FBI administered the tests would the results be different due to different questions asked and a different way to grade the tests? Personally, if SCPD had any involvement in administering and/or grading any of the polygraphs I would want a redo by the FBI.


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If that is true then I wonder who administered the tests. I wonder if the FBI administered the tests would the results be different due to different questions asked and a different way to grade the tests? Personally, if SCPD had any involvement in administering and/or grading any of the polygraphs I would want a redo by the FBI.


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but-why-do-you-not-believe-her-death-was-an-accident?
 
but-why-do-you-not-believe-her-death-was-an-accident?

I do not know factually whether or not Shannan was murdered or died accidentally, so I remain open-minded. However, I lean towards Shannan having been murdered for the following reasons.

Shannan, the GB4, and possibly/likely others's remains found on the south shore of Long Island were known to or believed to have used craigslist to advertise for sex services.

Shannan's remains were found separate from her clothing, and I'm not sure the hypothermia/possible drug influence/ possible psychotic break angle(s) work for me.

Shannan stated "they" were trying to kill her.

Shannan factually went to Brewers home the last night she was seen alive, and Brewer has reportedly numerous connections involving ex-cons, drugs, sex parties, and possibly high-ranking SCPD.

Shannan, the GB4, and the other victims were mostly or all petite.

Shannan's remains were found face up on a minimally populated island not far from the GB4 and other victims.

Dr. Baden's autopsy left room for the possibility of strangulation as a cause of death.

There is more that we've all gone over, but even the above suggests too many commonalities and coincidences for Shannan's death to be accidental. It may be that Shannan died accidentally, but I am far from being ready to rule out murder.




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I do not know factually whether or not Shannan was murdered or died accidentally, so I remain open-minded. However, I lean towards Shannan having been murdered for the following reasons.

Shannan, the GB4, and possibly/likely others's remains found on the south shore of Long Island were known to or believed to have used craigslist to advertise for sex services.

Shannan's remains were found separate from her clothing, and I'm not sure the hypothermia/possible drug influence/ possible psychotic break angle(s) work for me.

Shannan stated "they" were trying to kill her.

Shannan factually went to Brewers home the last night she was seen alive, and Brewer has reportedly numerous connections involving ex-cons, drugs, sex parties, and possibly high-ranking SCPD.

Shannan, the GB4, and the other victims were mostly or all petite.

Shannan's remains were found face up on a minimally populated island not far from the GB4 and other victims.

Dr. Baden's autopsy left room for the possibility of strangulation as a cause of death.

There is more that we've all gone over, but even the above suggests too many commonalities and coincidences for Shannan's death to be accidental. It may be that Shannan died accidentally, but I am far from being ready to rule out murder.




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so-how-did-it,go,down?shannen,goes,to,see,a,john,freaks,out,and,runs,screaming,saying,they,were,trying,to,kill,her,so,this,supposed,murder,attempt,must,have,happened,at,the,john's,house,or,from,were,she,was,running,away,from,then,she,gets,into,the,marsh,and,the,killer,just,so,happens,to,be,in,a,cold,tall,grass,area,waiting,for,her?Nobody,else,was,seen,around,so,if,she,was,killed,he,was,waiting,for,her?I'm,sorry,but,that,doesn't,make,any,sense,to,me.tHE,simplest,explanation,is,usually,the,right,one.
 
I think after SG wigged out, they had to do something with her and being found alive and talking wasn't an option. Too many locals had heard or saw her so the death had to look accidental and she couldn't be added in with the other 4.

My question is how she got from the doctor's house to where she was found? Easiest route would be by car back on the OP and then to where she was found. Probably a 2-person operation. Whoever it was threw the dice and correctly guessed that she wouldn't be discovered for a while.
 
I think after SG wigged out, they had to do something with her and being found alive and talking wasn't an option. Too many locals had heard or saw her so the death had to look accidental and she couldn't be added in with the other 4.

My question is how she got from the doctor's house to where she was found? Easiest route would be by car back on the OP and then to where she was found. Probably a 2-person operation. Whoever it was threw the dice and correctly guessed that she wouldn't be discovered for a while.

I've considered that may have been what happened.


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More things about Shannons last night that don't make sense... Firstly,Is Gus Coletti covering up for one of his neighbours? Here's a quote from Gus from an article from the New Jersey Star Ledger by reporter Amy Brittain June 12,2011"I’ll help you anyway I can," says Gus Coletti, a 76-year-old pigeon fancier who said he saw Gilbert that night. "Just don’t ask me to give up one of my neighbors." What a strange thing to say.. what is he implying ? That one of his neighbors may have something to hide? Also, the night Shannon disappeared Gus walked to the gatehouse to wait for the police .Here's another snippet from the same article,After calling 911 that morning, Coletti said he went to the gatehouse, which is about a 30-second walk from his home, and waited until the police arrived. At that gate house is a security camera which records the comings and goings through that gate here's another snippet from the same article about the gate and the tapes,Sax wants to know if the police have thoroughly searched the neighborhood, and she questions what happened to gatehouse security camera footage.
The cameras posted on the gatehouse routinely capture photos of license plates entering and leaving, creating an automatic log of activity.
Another camera, posted on a streetlight near the gate, points in the direction of the mailboxes on Anchor Way, where Gilbert was last seen running. Apparently, none of this footage was recovered, according to Sax, Laster and neighbors who have questioned what happened to it.
Gus stated earlier in the article he waited approximately 45 minutes for the police to arrive plenty of time for him to erase or dispose of the tapes. Gus already said he wouldn't give up a neighbour,so maybe he felt he was protecting a neighbour by disposing of the tapes? Also, in the same article Joseph Brewer tells the reporter this is why Shannon was upset the night she ran from his house,
Brewer told the Star-Ledger last week that he questioned her gender that night. Those close to Gilbert say that’s an outrageous suggestion, since she is wholly woman.But Brewer said Gilbert asked him if he had ever hired an online escort for sex. Then, he said she asked, "Have you come across any transvestites?" He was turned off, he said, and started to wonder if she was man or at least part man. "I wanted her out," he said.
Gilbert became upset, since "she saw things weren’t going as she had hoped," and acted in an "erratic" way, Brewer said. He said her driver, Michael Pak, was waiting in an SUV outside and got her into the car to take her home, he thought.
What??? What a ridiculous statement by Brewer! Shannon spent 3 hours in his home and he then he suddenly decided she might be a man? Remember Brewer made this statement before the body of an Asian male with a bashed in skull who police theorized might be an transvestite prostitute would be found on Gilgo beach.In the same article Pak disputes this story of Brewers as he believed Brewer and Shannon had had sex. Shannon and Pak spoke several times while she was in Brewer's home so Pak would have known what was going on inside Brewers house. Here is a transcript of Shannon's phone records from that night


Shannan’s Phone Records
DATE TIME PHONE # DESTINATION MINUTES USED OWNER

05/01/10 4:51 AM 911-000-0000 Emergency, 23
05/01/10 4:09 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:15 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:13 AM Incoming, 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:04 AM NEW YORK,NY 6 Michael Pak
05/01/10 3:00 AM Incoming, 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 2:57 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
05/01/10 2:55 AM BABYLON,NY 1 Oak Beach CVS
(460 MONTAUK HIGHWAY WEST ISLIP, NY11795)
05/01/10 12:25 AM NEW YORK,NY 1 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:23 AM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak
05/01/10 12:20 AM NEW YORK,NY 3 Michael Pak
04/30/10 10:02 PM NEW YORK,NY 2 Michael Pak

Shannon was dropped of at Brewers at 2 am and was there until approx. 4;51 am when she called 911 so she was clearly in contact with Pak while she was in the house and Pak would have known if they had sex or not.
Something is not right with the story we are being told about Shannons last night in Oak Beach....
 
Some reports say they passed and others say they were inconclusive.

Brewer says he passed, but the results were inconclusive.

Hackett refused. Brewer was inconclusive and pak passed.


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