Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

[WINDSOR]

Having been in media relations for years, I am fully aware that people lie to journalists and journalists also lie to the public. That’s pretty common knowledge. Kolker provided a story that makes sense on why a felon driver of a prostitute may say to himself "I have no desire to talk with cops about Shannan -- I have no desire to play cat and mouse with Shannan -- this is ridiculous -- I'm leaving."

By the same token, and speaking of agendas “to deceive”, if you are not aware, there is behind-the-scenes lobbying effort by someone to spread unverified information about Pak. I know this for certain. This person has a reckless disregard for the truth and I don’t appreciate it. I’m not saying you know about this at all – I’m just explaining why I push-back hard on any unsubstantiated claims about Pak or anyone who presumes to know exactly what happened between him and Shannan since Pak was cleared by LE years ago. So if there’s new “inside” information on Pak or knowledge of his and Shannan’s relationship that has not been reported by bona fide sources then WS has a verification process for insiders.

Thanks for the response Neptune, I am not aware of the behind the scenes lobbying to spread unverified information about Pak. However you do use the phrase "since Pak was cleared by LE years ago". How and for what crime(s) was Pak cleared? Of course Pak has not been charged with any offense relating to the Oak Beach, but neither has anybody else for that matter.

Being 'cleared' only means they were not charged at that time, new evidence may always turn up, that can change the course of any investigation. The history of cold cases is filled with individuals being interviewed and released during the initial investigation and then charged years later when new evidence is discovered.

I am not accusing MP of anything, I just feel he knows more, and is more involved than he has admitted. I also believe his knowledge especially about his relationship with Brewer, other women in the sex trade and who he saw in Brewer's house that morning would be of great assistance to LE.

Quite possibly MP has not commented because he feels saying too much might be unhealthy.

By the way, Pak has never publicly explained why he did leave Oak Beach that morning, why he did not continue to search for Shannan, why he did not assist the Police Officer in the search at that morning. Imagine if he had meet with the officer, told the officer where he last saw Shannan running, assisted in looking in the swamp in daylight, chances are Shannan would have been found alive that morning.

 

[Neptune]

Thanks for the response Neptune, I am not aware of the behind the scenes lobbying to spread unverified information about Pak. However you do use the phrase "since Pak was cleared by LE years ago". How and for what crime(s) was Pak cleared? Of course Pak has not been charged with any offense relating to the Oak Beach, but neither has anybody else for that matter.

Being 'cleared' only means they were not charged at that time, new evidence may always turn up, that can change the course of any investigation. The history of cold cases is filled with individuals being interviewed and released during the initial investigation and then charged years later when new evidence is discovered.

I am not accusing MP of anything, I just feel he knows more, and is more involved than he has admitted. I also believe his knowledge especially about his relationship with Brewer, other women in the sex trade and who he saw in Brewer's house that morning would be of great assistance to LE.

Quite possibly MP has not commented because he feels saying too much might be unhealthy.

By the way, Pak has never publicly explained why he did leave Oak Beach that morning, why he did not continue to search for Shannan, why he did not assist the Police Officer in the search at that morning. Imagine if he had meet with the officer, told the officer where he last saw Shannan running, assisted in looking in the swamp in daylight, chances are Shannan would have been found alive that morning.

Again, I think it’s obvious that if new information is presented in any case, hot or cold, that may change the situation and charges may follow. I don’t how to respond with comments that seem so obvious and are presented just for argument’s sake. Pak was cleared – the conventional meaning of that statement is that LE looked into him related to Shannan’s disappearance and he was not charged with any crime. Either LE did not feel a crime was committed – hence, no charges – or that they did not have sufficient evidence to charge him. Pak did undergo a polygraph – so that is pretty indicative that LE did formally investigate him at one point.

Pak did not assist in the search that morning because you don’t know that there was a “search” that morning. According to Gus Coletti, in an on-air interview, the police didn’t seem concerned in the least about Shannan on May 1. Despite 3 calls to 911, whoever the responding officer was did not even bother to view the front gate video tapes – and she ran right by the cameras. I don’t believe a police report was ever filed on this incidence. If so, where is it?

Pak left Oak Beach but he came back the next day with Alex when Alex called him to say Shannan never made it home. So indeed Pak did make an effort to learn what happened to her. Pak transports women to and from johns, which is promoting prostitution. That’s illegal. I was surprised he even agreed to be interviewed for TV -- I think a couple of times. So don’t expect Pak to be blogging and making sure the general public is up-to-date on what’s happening with him regarding the incident with Shannan. You don’t know if he did or did not continue to look for Shannan – and doubtful that info would be reported in MSM, as it is not considered newsworthy.

As far as Pak “knowing more” about the incident at Brewer’s – probably so (and so did Brewer). Did Pak give that information to LE when they interviewed him? Maybe, but that is unknown. People often give information to LE that does not end up being disclosed to the public. You think this obligates Pak to disclose it to the public himself? Um, no, it does not.

If Pak did give LE information on who else was at Brewer’s that morning, LE did not reveal that name to the public. In fact, it was purposefully kept out of the media. That’s more significant to me than anything else.

 

[Kali&89]

Neptune, you seem to be hinting that you are an insider on this case or are personally connected to Pak or you are privy to information not available to the general public.If you are an insider you should just declare it and it would clear up some tension in this thread and give your statements more credibility and make your stance on certain issues more understandable.With all due respect

 

[Samantha Spade]

Has anyone interviewed the 911 operator who took Shannan's call?

 

[Kali&89]

[Maybe the operator is bound in her/his conditions of employment no to reveal the contents of calls.I am beginning to think the police know who committed at least some of the murders of Craigslist girls buried at Gilgo beach.I also think Shannan and what she said or who was heard on her 911 case is important to their case and that's why they are fighting to keep it under wraps as they have said the release of would"frustrate" their efforts in the Gilgo case. And I think Neptune is probably right about Pak , he knows more than he's saying public ally about the case and he most likely told the cops what he knows and they are requested he keep it private so as not to compromise their investigation.Ithink all

Has anyone interviewed the 911 operator who took Shannan's call?

 

[Samantha Spade]

[Maybe the operator is bound in her/his conditions of employment no to reveal the contents of calls.I am beginning to think the police know who committed at least some of the murders of Craigslist girls buried at Gilgo beach.I also think Shannan and what she said or who was heard on her 911 case is important to their case and that's why they are fighting to keep it under wraps as they have said the release of would"frustrate" their efforts in the Gilgo case. And I think Neptune is probably right about Pak , he knows more than he's saying public ally about the case and he most likely told the cops what he knows and they are requested he keep it private so as not to compromise their investigation.Ithink all

Has anyone interviewed the 911 operator who took Shannan's call?

I like to think that too.

 

[Kali&89]

How do you know Shannon and Pak had a prearranged question??

If her death was an accident then it was caused by the fact she was trying to get away from people, "They are trying to kill me", who wanted her dead.

Would you consider that the danger and threat was only in the mind of a person who was bi-polar and had a history of that kind of behavior? SG and MP had a pre arranged question for her to answer just for that situation.
And one more time, regarding the release of the 911 call. IT IS NOT LEGAL, IN SUFFOLK COUNTY, N.Y., FOR ANY 911 CALLS TO BE MADE PUBLIC. They can only be released with a court order, and nobody has gotten one yet.

 

[Frappacino]

Paks story about Shannon running away from him because she didn't want to pay him his cut does not make sense...Shannon was aware that they had driven a long desolate drive to Brewers house.. she needed Pak to get out of there..., there is no way she wouldn't have wanted to give Pak his cut in order to get back to the city... imagine how much a taxi would have cost her to get back most likely way more than Paks cut and how long she would have had to wait to get a taxi...she knew she couldn't walk it's too far... Brewers not going to drive her as according to Pak Brewer threw her out of his house.. no one else is going to drive out of the city to get her without her paying and lastly if she was acting up just get out of paying Pak she wouldn't have gone into a marsh or thrown away her personal items...Paks looking more and more suspicious the closer you look at his story...Shannon was truly afraid of someone that night

Can you please post the news clipping or media clipping
that you are say
Pak had a story about SG running from him because she didn't want to pay him his cut?

I've never seen that before. Thx.

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: STOP quoting posts with broken quotes. You guys look like you're talking to yourselves. Crminy!

 

[deedee21]

Can you please post the news clipping or media clipping
that you are say
Pak had a story about SG running from him because she didn't want to pay him his cut?

I've never seen that before. Thx.

a&e aired a show called Americas Serial Killer. This is where MP made that statement. He was speculating. The show was on youtube and then yanked.

 

[Barbie619]

But wasn't the call routed to Nassau County? Wasn't that part of the problem in locating her along with her saying she thought she was around Jones Beach and not Oak Beach? If it's a law in New York State, it wouldn't matter what county, but, the talk was SCPD keeping the call under wraps. Nassau Country would have a copy of it, if it originated there. At least that's what I remember about the case. I could be wrong though.

The call was routed to NYSP because Jones Beach is a State Park. Shannan said she was somewhere around Jones Beach. So 911 wasn't routed to Nassau County.

 

[Barbie619]

Can't federal law trump Suffolk County law?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Considering the 911 originated from New York State Police 911 dispatch, I would think they would supercede a local county law. I just don't know the law concerning this. JMO

 

[Barbie619]

Do you have a source for the bone missing?? I had never heard that before. I know that when you list all the bad things that happened to her you may think it's too much of a coincidence, but believe me the list of random occurrences that directly resulted in the sinking of the Titanic is even longer. My point is, bad luck exists, plain and simple. None of what you mention proves foul play to be honest, I've never been to that place but from what I saw in The Killing Season her body was very close. If she had been in a place where it would have been impossible for her to arrive in foot then I could believe it but that is not the case. You can easily get to where she died just by walking. Why is that so suspicious? I don't understand. When you assume she was on drugs, and she probably was, everything you mention becomes plausible.

I accept there MAY BE a conspiracy with SCPD because maybe they were clients of hers, nothing more.

It is nearly impossible to believe SG walked barefooted (which she was) into those marshes. No matter what state of mind she was in, pain is pain and walking on top of reeds will be painful, instantly. She would have automatically retreated away after experiencing that kind of pain.

 

[Barbie619]

It was explained to me that he knew Mari Gilbert already.

MG never heard of PH until the day he called her about Shannan. Someone is giving you bad information, which in turn confuses those who are here reading these threads and trying to keep it accurate. JMO

 

[Barbie619]

Thank you for adding a little bit more clarity regarding Dr. Hackett. I still do not trust him...

First, you have to believe he is telling the truth in those two letters. I don't everything he wrote, he's a tool.:fence:

 

[maddalena1]

MG never heard of PH until the day he called her about Shannan. Someone is giving you bad information, which in turn confuses those who are here reading these threads and trying to keep it accurate. JMO

We all make mistakes cause that is part of our humanness. However, the feeding of bad information to others makes me suspicious about the intentions of the feeder.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Barbie619]

So scared he abandoned his money maker.

Too bad he couldn't have foreseen Brewer's "story".(he didn't hire SG for sex)... thus, he could have said he was just driving a friend to visit a lonely guy (no prostitution involved)

But, speaking of security cameras... Anyone want to refresh my memory on what supposedly happened to the Oak Beach entrance gate videos stored on the hard drive?? Were police too tardy in the investigation to find them?


"Although the videotapes are taped over every 24 hours, the videos are also stored on a hard drive."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...peter-hackett/feed/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

If memory serves me, it was PH's job within that Oak Beach Community to handle security tapes. The tapes were never available to police since there was never a investigation into Shannan's disappearance that morning.

 

[Barbie619]

Lots of great comments here,

Regarding the video from the gate house, it has been stated by LE that the video was deleted by somebody, and there is no record of the traffic in and out of Oak Beach for the period of time that we are concerned with. Some people have speculated CPH had access to the recording device and possibly had awareness or involvement with the deleting of the video records.

The fact that prostitution is illegal in New York State does not appear to be impacting negatively on the thousands of men and women who derive a portion of their livelihood in the sex-trade. Notice SCPD did not file any prostitution charges against MP when they interviewed him and gave him a lie detector test.

Pak returned to Oak Beach with Shannan's boyfriend Alex Diaz the next day, that points to a more that a relationship with Shannan and MP than strictly business.

Diaz tried to file a missing person's report on Shannan, it is believed that MP went with him to the police station to do the filing, so MP was not terrified by the police vis a vis his occupation.

Remember Kolker's book is his reporting of what people have told him, some people may have had reason to deceive Kolker.

LE could have brought charges against a lot of individuals, but if as many believe that SCPD is corrupt and involved in some way in this case, definitely they do not want a trial where law enforcement's alleged complicity would be laid bare.

Finally, I do not know anything for sure, I just look at probabilities of behavior.

Even if drug-addled, the basic human desire for self preservation is strong, Shannan was running from MP, she must of had a reason. She could not have been that 'doped-up' if she was able to call 911, knock on GC's door and run. Nobody has described her as delirious or acting in a psychotic manner. Her behavior could be described as consistent with someone who was very scared, not sure of her location and fearing for her life.

If you believe she died accidently how could she have traveled so far under the influence of those powerful drugs to have reached her final resting place by herself? Talk to somebody who has used those same drugs and see how energetic they felt.

The choice becomes she either was heavily drugged and not acting rationally, therefore she could not have traveled the distance she did, or she was not that drugged that heavily and was acting rationally. Cannot be both.

There are exceptions of course but most people under the heavy influence of drugs tend to either become placid, pass-out or rage and become violent in one place, running and asking for help is rare.



MOO

I recall it being PH that was in charge of security tapes in Oak Beach.

I don't ever recall MP & AD going to the police to report Shannan missing. It was MG who went to the police to report her daughter missing. SCPD sent her packing, telling her to report Shannan missing from her hometown, Jersey City, New Jersey.

Even in Jersey City the police took a report but never investigated it.

It was only when bodies started turning up along OP that LE took notice and pieced together Shannan's disappearence. Remember Shannan's 23 minute call to NYSP and not SCPD, missing person reported in Jersey City, not SCPD. It took months to connect all this information and for SCPD to take action.

IMHO the police officer and his police dog weren't out there looking for SG/bodies. He was out exercising his canine and the dog just happened upon the remains.

I agree with everything concerning drug use, can't have it both ways. Shannan was coherent enough to dial 911 from inside JB's house and once prompted to leave (why would she remain in JB's house for any length of time while on 911 if 'they' were trying to kill her?) she ran for her life, sought help from other's, and met her death in between.

I believe it was the family in the beginning that was investigating Shannan's disappearence at Oak Beach.

I have never heard or read that MP & AD went back the next day looking for Shannan and were handing out Mari & her families phone numbers. It could simply be that I haven't read every single piece of information available or seen every single news story on Shannan's case.

 

[Barbie619]

Kali&89:
Shannan arrived in Oak Beach at 2am and it was 4:50 when she ran out of Brewer's house. That's about 3 hours of time at, what, $300/hour? -- you think she stuck around Brewer's house for 3 hours and only left with $300? She had a lot more money than that.

My point continues to be: We were not there. We don't know what reason she left in a panic. We do not know what reason she ran from her ride home - there are countless possible scenarios. They’ve been churned over and over on this thread for 5 years. The fact is, Pak was cleared.

WINDSOR,
Having been in media relations for years, I am fully aware that people lie to journalists and journalists also lie to the public. That’s pretty common knowledge. Kolker provided a story that makes sense on why a felon driver of a prostitute may say to himself "I have no desire to talk with cops about Shannan -- I have no desire to play cat and mouse with Shannan -- this is ridiculous -- I'm leaving."

By the same token, and speaking of agendas “to deceive”, if you are not aware, there is behind-the-scenes lobbying effort by someone to spread unverified information about Pak. I know this for certain. This person has a reckless disregard for the truth and I don’t appreciate it. I’m not saying you know about this at all – I’m just explaining why I push-back hard on any unsubstantiated claims about Pak or anyone who presumes to know exactly what happened between him and Shannan since Pak was cleared by LE years ago. So if there’s new “inside” information on Pak or knowledge of his and Shannan’s relationship that has not been reported by bona fide sources then WS has a verification process for insiders.

Did Shannan have the money from JB in her possession? I've never heard that reported when SCPD found her belongings....

 

[Barbie619]

Here is a snippet from the testimony "verbatim" of Chief Varrone before the Suffolk County Legislature Public Safety committee May 5,2011

"Just to give you a quick overview of where the case is, and forgive me because I know most of you know all of this, but I'll just mention it. Of course this whole case started with the disappearance of Shannon Gilbert which occurred on May 1st -- almost a year ago, a few more days -- and Shannon Gilbert was a young woman who advertised on Craig's List. On the day in question she left her home in Jersey, took a train into Manhattan where she engaged in one, maybe two tricks, and she had a driver who was contacted by an individual in the Oak Beach Association and she was taken there at approximately two o'clock in the morning."

So Pak did arrange the date with Brewer according to Chief Varrone... This brings up several questions re this case the question of how did these two men know each other and had Pak ever brought other girls to Oak beach at Brewers request?

Here is a link to the verbatim notes taken at the May 5,2011,Suffolk County Legislature Public Safety Committee,Varrones statements re Shannon and the case can be found on pages 9 and 10

http://legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/cle...1/PS050511.pdf

MP's phone # was being used for SG's calls that night??? JB found SG's ad on Craigslist, right? Shannan had to leave a way to contact her without giving out her phone number, right? IMO