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[DatelineFan]

Dateline always does a really strong job, I wish they would drop new episodes more often though. Rerun city all year long gets old after you've tevo'ed every single episode and watched them!!


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Same here. I've seen every single episode. I'm ready for new material! And there's certainly not a shortage of cases, sadly.

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[BOESP]

I think they did care. But what happens if the attacker is also someone you care about and love equally? Gets a bit more complicated, a lot more. If JonBenet had only suffered a head wound, it might have been different...but the obvious sight that she had been sexually abused... well that is something that stays forever on a family.

Upstanding citizens in a moment of panic can do really stupid things. A citizen with no criminal record could knock over a person in a car, panic, and floor it, hit and run. It happens more than you think.

So, basically, you agree with District Attorney Hunter's refusal to indict?

 

[johnjay]

So, basically, you agree with District Attorney Hunter's refusal to indict?

Indict for what?

There was the reckless endangerment charge, that to me implied they had prior knowledge that they were not adequately protecting JonBenet. And there was the accessory after the fact charge.

 

[GoldenFleece]

So, basically, you agree with District Attorney Hunter's refusal to indict?

Yes, I think there is not enough solid evidence to be sure of a conviction. A lot of the evidence is circumstantial, it would have been easy for the Ramsays to be found not guilty with some good expensive lawyers at their disposal. I see even less evidence (basally nil) though for a intruder and still think it was one (or more) of the family members that killed her (either purposefully or accidentally).

 

[otg]

I enjoyed this show, I am not familar with Dateline, being from the UK and all. Looking forward to the one next Monday more though, Laura Richards is great, she did a examination on Jack the Ripper a few years ago.

Can anyone say why they couldn't release the 999 call? Its on youtube after all.

Without replaying the Dateline recording, I think they said they wouldn't release the version that had been enhanced by Aerospace. They've released a partial recording of it with the end erased.

 

[observation]

Without replaying the Dateline recording, I think they said they wouldn't release the version that had been enhanced by Aerospace. They've released a partial recording of it with the end erased.

That's likely why they interviewed KA, 911 dispatcher. She heard 3 "distinct voices" after PR "thought" she had hung the phone up on the cradle. We may never hear that recording but Kohler offered the transcript in his book. I for one believe him.


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[k-mac]

can someone clarify to me as my eyes are still popping out of my head after just watching the dateline episode.....
when the ramseys were finally interviewed it was actually by the da office and it was pre arranged questions afterall??
and...the boulder detectives had no input of the questioning??? and...... only had access to it hours after the event????
im really hoping that i misinterpreted what josh said . tia

 

[Deadhead_Kay]

No wonder the interviews were done so terribly. I can't believe they were able to pull that much weight for the Ramsey's to get away with so much in that interview. Sadly k-mac, you did not hear incorrectly. The Ramseys and the DA knew they had the upperhand and asked for as much as possible so that the Ramsey's would really never have to answer any questions. I understand how even the truly innocent need to be protected by attorneys and such so that something innocent said can't be misconstrued, but completely wanting everything to be rehearsed? No wonder this case has lasted 20 years.

 

[BOESP]

Indict for what?

There was the reckless endangerment charge, that to me implied they had prior knowledge that they were not adequately protecting JonBenet. And there was the accessory after the fact charge.

Indict for the charges as listed in the true bills - your prior post sounded like you agreed with Hunter's decision not to sign.

 

[BBB167893]

can someone clarify to me as my eyes are still popping out of my head after just watching the dateline episode.....
when the ramseys were finally interviewed it was actually by the da office and it was pre arranged questions afterall??
and...the boulder detectives had no input of the questioning??? and...... only had access to it hours after the event????
im really hoping that i misinterpreted what josh said . tia

No, that's pretty much it.

 

[Tadpole12]

Dateline @58:52, grapes:

SMALL INTESTINE
CONTENTS


Pineapple.....

grapes (bottom left corner)

 

[Tadpole12]

gr
a
p
e
s

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

can someone clarify to me as my eyes are still popping out of my head after just watching the dateline episode.....
when the ramseys were finally interviewed it was actually by the da office and it was pre arranged questions afterall??
and...the boulder detectives had no input of the questioning??? and...... only had access to it hours after the event????
im really hoping that i misinterpreted what josh said . tia

Off the top of my head, here's how it happened. I might have some details wrong but you get the gist of it:
- Dec. 26th they should have been hauled off to the station for questioning, but were allowed to go to the Fernies' house instead.
- Dec. 27th Fleet White is interviewed by police and then later that afternoon by the Ramsey's private investigators. Detectives Trujillo and Arndt go to the Fernies' house to set up a formal interview with the Ramseys and meet with John, their lawyer-friend Mike Bynum, and JB's pediatrician/family friend Dr. Beuf. Beuf, who was giving Patsy tranquilizers said she was in no state to be interviewed and forbade it as her doctor. Bynum also resisted setting up an interview from a legal standpoint. John is too distraught to talk anyway, he says.
- Dec. 28th the Ramseys come into the station to give hair and dna samples (as they are compelled to do by law) and I think JR's adult children Melinda and John Andrew are interviewed at this point, but no one else.
- Eventually the Ramsey lawyers allow Linda Arndt to fax them 20 written (general) questions that the Ramseys will answer.
- Jan. 1st - The Ramseys claim on CNN that they will be leaving from Atlanta immediately to cooperate with the police in Boulder. Still, it will take four months to get them into the station because their attorneys refuse to let them be interviewed except for under certain conditions, such as short interviews, not conducted at the police station, they get to be interviewed together, etc. Bottom line, the conditions their lawyers insisted on would have rendered the interrogations more or less useless, so the police refuse. The DA's office starts giving information to the Ramsey's lawyers in hopes of getting an interview from the Ramseys. They let their lawyers test the note with their own document examiner (in case they need their own experts in court), show them the garrote, and hand over a lot of reports of what they said and other people said. And the autopsy, I think. Why would witnesses need all that information prior to giving a statement?
- April - The first interviews were with detectives (Thomas and Trujillo) but the Ramseys lawyers sat in, and one of the law firm's PIs also sat in with Patsy.
- The next time they are interviewed is 14 months later in June 1998 in anticipation of the Grand Jury. The Ramseys stipulate that they are to be interviewed by the DA's office in an undisclosed location. Detectives were not allowed to interview them and could only watch the taped interviews afterwards.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

I don't hear BR saying, "I worried IF they would find her."

I hear BR saying, "I worried they would find her."

Could just be me, though.

 

[rojamom]

EXACTLY
nor would you pull a cord around her neck.thats why i tend to agree with Kolar on this part that all this was part of the crime and not the staging

Madeline -- Yes, I agree 100%. What makes more sense to me is that the staging of the crime didn't begin until after she was murdered -- I don't think the strangulation, sexual assault, or abrasions to the back/face (e.g., the train track marks) were part of the staging. I think the staging of the crime included the too long (and too loose) wrist bindings, the tape over the mouth, the blanket covering her, and of course the ransom note. JMO

 

[madeleine]

Madeline -- Yes, I agree 100%. What makes more sense to me is that the staging of the crime didn't begin until after she was murdered -- I don't think the strangulation, sexual assault, or abrasions to the back/face (e.g., the train track marks) were part of the staging. I think the staging of the crime included the too long (and too loose) wrist bindings, the tape over the mouth, the blanket covering her, and of course the ransom note. JMO

re her being carefully wrapped in the blanket
this is bugging me since yesterday.why did all investigators, profilers,etc assumed that this part is true since the only one who claims it is JR??we have NO idea how he found her, we only know what HE is telling us about it.

FW didnt enter the cellar at the same time, but seconds later...maybe the blanket was just laying there, maybe it was covering the entire body

 

[chlban]

just have to give Kudos to Dateline. I admit I have expected that we are all going to see the "new narrative" that the Ramsey's are the poor persecuted innocent parents, wrongly accused. I still expect that from Dr. Phony and probably the CBS series. But Dateline was a very pleasant surprise. Sure, they had the "good friend" insisting on innocence and covered the Lou Smit fairytale, but that is objective journalism. They also presented the TRUTH.

One thing I was somewhat struck by. I have followed this case for years, read all the books, articles, etc. and like many others gotten into a lot of the minutiae of the case. In doing that for so long, it's easy to overlook, or at least forget about, the truly obvious, at least in my case, but seeing it presented in such a capsulized version was interesting in this sense.

If I knew nothing about this case and was watching it presented for the very first time last Friday on Dateline, the huge and glaring red flag that stood out was this. No innocent parent, or parents, behave the way the Ramsey's did. None, zero, nada. It makes absolutely no sense.

Your child is "kidnapped". There is a ransom note, longer than my senior thesis, warning you to speak to no one including the police. Now, contacting the police in spite of that warning? I wouldn't fault parents for that. Did they even bother to tell the police about the threat? Nope. Then they proceed to invite the rest of boulder over. Nope. Makes no sense. Then, you refuse to cooperate with the police. No way in hell do innocent people behave that way. No way. I don't care if it's wise to get legal counsel, I don't care if you have friends or family advising you to do so. I don't care how rich you are. If that is my child, I would be demanding a polygraph so they could move forward in the right direction. I would be re living every detail of the last days of my child's life and insisting the police listen in case there was anything in there that might alert them to something. Of course I would be grieving, but I would also want answers.

One of the people known to be in that house killed her and whether both parents were immediately aware of that or not, both parents decided to obstruct justice for their daughter.

 

[Tadpole12]

[video=youtube;vN6YBvc9D9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN6YBvc9D9E[/video]

Dateline, BR (at 11 yrs old) June 1998 interview footage:


@ 1:02:42


Detective: Did you ever have a desire
to go find out what was going on?

Burke: Yes.
...............
Detective:
What's the first thing
you remember hearing
that morning?

Burke:
Mom coming in,
just, like, saying, "Oh, my gosh. Oh, my
gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh." ...
-
Burke:
she flips on the lights, then --
I don't think she really looks around.
I--I remember her just
going right back out...
...................
Detective: And what did you do next?
-
Burke:
Laid in bed with my eyes closed,
trying to get to sleep.


Narrator: Next, Burke said,
his Dad came in and
turned off the lights,
but did not notice that Burke
was awake.


Burke:
I was afraid...
-
Burke:
that something really bad happened.


Narrator: So, Burke said he never left his bedroom.


Detective:
Even for a little bit,
just to see what was happening?


Burke: No.


Narrator: He said he could hear his parents
in the kitchen area.

Burke:
He was like, "OK, calm down.
We can call the police.


Burke:
Let's call the police."
-
Detective:
You could hear that quite clearly?
From your room?


Burke:
Pretty clearly ....
-

Detective: Did you ever have a desire
to go find out what was going on?...
-
Burke:
Yes.


Burke:
I figured that--


Burke:
I shouldn't really interrupt.


Narrator: This contradicted the detectives'
belief that Burke can be heard in the 911 call.

Burke said he didn't find out what happened to JonBenet
until that night, sfter he'd been taken to a friend's house.

Burke:
I thought JonBenet was gonna be
there. I thought they had found her.

Burke:
So I came in real excited,

Burke:
and, um, almost relieved.

Burke:
Then I saw everyone else was sad inside.

Burke:
And my dad told me that
JonBenet was in heaven.


Narrator: He said he sobbed.


Detective: How do you think
JonBenet was killed?

Burke: [ahhhh]* I have no idea

***************
*vocalization added
*****************
@ 1:09:54



Narrator: Burke Ramsey also testified
according to police documents
he listened to the 911 call
and although he would not admit
that he was in the kitchen when
his mother made the 911 call,
he told the juror's [sic]
that it sounded like
his voice on the tape.
***************
@1:23:33

Narrator: Through his Attorney,
Mr. Ramsey declined our request
for an interview.

 

[otg]

(sbm for brevity)

just have to give Kudos to Dateline. I admit I have expected that we are all going to see the "new narrative" that the Ramsey's are the poor persecuted innocent parents, wrongly accused. I still expect that from Dr. Phony and probably the CBS series. But Dateline was a very pleasant surprise. Sure, they had the "good friend" insisting on innocence and covered the Lou Smit fairytale, but that is objective journalism. They also presented the TRUTH.

Chlban, I agree that Dateline was better that the others so far and was fairly objective. (You know it was fairly objective when it gets Woody as hopping mad as he was while it was being aired :floorlaugh:.)

 

[Madeleine74]

Someone upstream was asking if BR had an attorney -- yes, the same one that represents the Ramsey family: Lin Wood. He represents both JR & BR and represented PR when she was still alive.