Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[44ALLAN]

Thanks Mr. F. Have never read this before. Although - like the rest of the posters some of Christo's comments don't fit with what he know so far, the comment made about Frank is the first I've ever heard about his reaction to that night.

Interested in your quote :" ..Frankie was traumatised, especially because... he'd heard nothing. It bothered him a lot and he tended to cry a lot initially" says C.Menalou.

Surely people are traumatised precisely because they have experienced a trauma at first hand? That's my understanding of it basically. You surely don't get traumatised by what you did not see or hear? Regret, shock feeling terrified.. yes, self-reproach maybe.... that you woke up to this scene oblivious to what had been taking place... but traumatised and tears that you can't stop?
Michelle Burger was traumatised by Reeva's screams so much she was still crying on the stand and could not get those screams out of her head for a long time.

It's a revealing comment to me.

I know we have all said this time and time again, but considering this crime has made the media trillions of cash why hasn't some enterprising journalist tracked him down - even if it is only to give us a non- scoop along the lines of "Frank has no comment to make and slammed the door in our face...."

Maybe frank is full time snorkelling...........................without the snorkel !

 

[Mr Fossil]

Good post…

If I'm not mistaken the 3:08AM time came from Christo's mouth… if Christo is colluding with OP then we can't put much reliability on that time.

My thoughts on the ladders was always that they were left there and that nobody gave them a second thought not even OP… they were conveniently integrated in OP fabricated story… but the ladders did not play a significant role in the defence or the verdict… had they not been there to begin with the outcome would have been the same.

The shower is odd to say the least… it makes no sense to me unless you had something you absolutely needed to wash off… like blood from a crime scene

Is it possible that Christo was first on the scene ?… came over to OP's house because he heard Reeva screaming for her life… entered OP's house moments after OP shot Reeva ?

...could explain how Frank entered OP's house and was told "get the *advertiser censored** outta my house"

… could explain why OP's front door was unlocked and open when Carice, Johan, Baba, etc.. arrived at OP's house

Personally, I never bought OP's story that he had the presence of mind to unlock and open all the door before picking up Reeva with the intent of carrying her outside to his car

If Christo M was colluding with OP why say he heard three thunderclaps at 03:08? Why say anything and why that time and three? Why not say he woke to go to the toilet later and saw all the flashing lights?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

The most bizarre part of this insanely “perfect storm” of Oscar’s impossible / improbable events?

Invisible, deaf-dumb-mute Reeva not only silently eluded OP but the “intruder” as well.

The invisible “intruder” never encountered the invisible Reeva nor did Oscar ever encounter either of them.

It appears the heavens were in perfect alignment that night to allow Reeva to pass unnoticed by both her killer and the “intruder” - an extremely narrow window of time ... we’re talking mere seconds.

It’s as if HE was the only actor on that stage - Reeva and the “intruder” were merely props in his one-man screenplay.

Throw in the dead nighttime silence of 3am.

(At least one witness testified that one would regularly hear the animals in the wildlife sanctuary ½ mile away.)

In my mind, it’s simply IMPOSSIBLE that Reeva would not have heard someone climbing up a metal ladder and enter the bathroom window, especially when the “intruder” was so careless as to SLAM the window open. (Cue Oscar’s “terror”!!)

Under the reasonable woman test, she absolutely would have yelled out/screamed for Oscar! Why wouldn’t she? HE would be in immediate danger, not her!

This was one of the fatal flaws in his fairytale - he never accounted for what both a reasonable woman and reasonable “intruder” would have actually done.

Not only did OP want you to believe that Reeva never uttered one single word nor called the police but that a brazen, ballsy, dangerous home invader (who somehow breezed through high-tech estate security, scaled two sets of high walls and avoided being eaten by two curiously silent guard dogs) - was suddenly terrified, immediately ran into the toilet, locked the door and HID. Geezus, get real.

Consider simple logistics.

How does one precariously balance from the top of a tall metal ladder in the dark, navigate arms and legs through a small window with half-lowered, noisy BLINDS to land on the tile floor without making one single sound - total silence? Physics and logic say it’s not possible. In the dark, the "intruder" would very likely have made a terrible racket stumbling into the small metal trash can and/or the scales on the floor.

Yet this is the 24K krap Masipa gobbled up like sweet gummy bears.

 

[soozieqtips]

Surely people are traumatised precisely because they have experienced a trauma at first hand? That's my understanding of it basically. You surely don't get traumatised by what you did not see or hear? Regret, shock feeling terrified.. yes, self-reproach maybe.... that you woke up to this scene oblivious to what had been taking place... but traumatised and tears that you can't stop?

BIB - it's as weird as OP screaming (like he never screamed before) right up until the moment he saw Reeva lying dead in the toilet... when for some reason he didn't feel the need to scream anymore, although he was "saddened" by what he saw.

 

[44ALLAN]

Aha! Now I get it.

Incidentally it seems like everyone is everyone's best friend in the circles they move in.

My brain hurts - with the nutella pancakes, chicken and cheese autopsy evidence, chicken and cheese "still in the fridge the next morning" plus the potential chicken and cheese picnic breakfast!!:thinking:

I want a photo of the fridge contents if Botha's still got 'em :tantrum:, preferably weighed, plus the food wrappers from the refuse plus the receipts from the food mart. I'll take the Reeva receipts for the Nutella and heart biscuits too if anyone has got them and Mr F will be able to give it a good go.

I implied/said this eons ago..................who emptied the bins in the kitchen and checked/photographed the contents.
Were there dirty plates in the sink?
Were the wrappers from the cheese/chicken and stir fry ingredients still on the benches or in the fridge or in the waste bin?
C'mon fgs..................did they check this stuff or not?

OP.........we had a chicken stir fry that Reeva made.
Nel..........but we found no evidence of this in your fridge or in your waste bin Mr.Pistorius !!

 

[AJ_DS]

If Christo M was colluding with OP why say he heard three thunderclaps at 03:08? Why say anything and why that time and three? Why not say he woke to go to the toilet later and saw all the flashing lights?

Elementary my dear Watson

A prerequisite to collusion is to allege having witnessed something… if Christo had said that he hadn't witnessed anything he would be unable to assist OP.

As it was unavoidable fact that OP fired 4 gunshots, OP swung a cricket bat at the the door 3-4 times and that Reeva was shot and killed by OP, Christo would only be able to assist OP if he stated that he witnessed something.

Providing a time of 3:08AM and 3 shots muddles the evidence which is gold to establish reasonable doubt.

 

[AJ_DS]

Maybe frank if full time snorkelling...........................without the snorkel !

LOL… sleeping with the fishes

 

[cottonweaver]

Maybe frank is full time snorkelling...........................without the snorkel !

Fish food?:scared:

 

[AJ_DS]

I implied/said this eons ago..................who emptied the bins in the kitchen and checked/photographed the contents.
Were there dirty plates in the sink?
Were the wrappers from the cheese/chicken and stir fry ingredients still on the benches or in the fridge or in the waste bin?
C'mon fgs..................did they check this stuff or not?

OP.........we had a chicken stir fry that Reeva made.
Nel..........but we found no evidence of this in your fridge or in your waste bin Mr.Pistorius !!

One must remember that investigators had absolutely no information whatsoever from OP a per the what happened that evening to conduct their investigation.

IIRC, the chicken stir fry info came out only at Trial during OP's examination

 

[cottonweaver]

I implied/said this eons ago..................who emptied the bins in the kitchen and checked/photographed the contents.
Were there dirty plates in the sink?
Were the wrappers from the cheese/chicken and stir fry ingredients still on the benches or in the fridge or in the waste bin?
C'mon fgs..................did they check this stuff or not?

OP.........we had a chicken stir fry that Reeva made.
Nel..........but we found no evidence of this in your fridge or in your waste bin Mr.Pistorius !!

They're all totally valid questions which could be very revealing but the last part was just a lighthearted comment. (As SAPS allowed him to wash the blood off I can't seriously see Botha having a photo of the meal remains in the fridge.)

Can't imagine the British police doing such a thorough investigation either - sounds more like a Miss Marple programme, sadly....or a sleuthing forum.

 

[cottonweaver]

Elementary my dear Watson

A prerequisite to collusion is to allege having witnessed something… if Christo had said that he hadn't witnessed anything he would be unable to assist OP.

As it was unavoidable fact that OP fired 4 gunshots, OP swung a cricket bat at the the door 3-4 times and that Reeva was shot and killed by OP, Christo would only be able to assist OP if he stated that he witnessed something.

Providing a time of 3:08AM and 3 shots muddles the evidence which is gold to establish reasonable doubt.

If it's gold, why didn't the Defence put Christo on the stand Sherlock?

 

[AJ_DS]

If it's gold, why didn't the Defence put Christo on the stand Sherlock?

Oh dear Watson please do try and keep up

Reason 1 : Defence did not need to because state witnesses + Mike + Mike's wife + Rika provided sufficient material to muddle the evidence… case and point Masipa's verdict

Reason 2 : Christo is OP's BFF… hence low credibility index

Reason 3 : Christo's account of events would have been torn to shreds by Nel… especially the shower bit… which could very well cause more harm than good for the Defence

 

[ColonelMustard]

Related to earlier posts:

"Snakes and Ladders" (a children's board game)




Pictures Reeva drew when she was younger, which June has mentioned a number of times.

man, gun, angel in white

woman scrunched up in small box

 

[ColonelMustard]

Regarding the possibility of Christo going over there first and then going home to take a shower. As a logistically close neighbor and good friend, might Christo have kept an extra key for Oscar's house in case OP got locked out and also knew his alarm code? Thus, Christo would have been able to let himself into the house?

 

[ColonelMustard]

VD gift left out in the counter:

If I knew the person could hold off and wouldn't sneak down in the middle of the night and open it, I might leave a VD gift out as a "tease" for what the guy would get to open the next morning. So, I don't see the gift being out on the counter a real problem.

--------

Nutella pancakes? First I've heard of that. I have no idea. Was he only allowed no fat/sugar after a certain time of day or depending on what his practice would involve? I'm thinking of marathon runners who supposedly gorge on carbohydrates the night before their races.

---------

Samantha G. really encouraging Reeva to go out to a movie with her. that night:

1. She had advised Reeva not to do all sorts of stuff for OP for VD because she was warning her off, not to get MORE involved?
2. Samantha G's husband knew/had gotten wind of OP's dalliances behind Reeva's back, told his wife, and as a friend SG was trying her best to begin prying Reeva loose, knowing that if she was successful, Reeva might not get her heart AS broken?

 

[Mr Fossil]

Here's some links to relevant previews of You magazine. The articles are incomplete and I'm still working my way through them but there are a few more morsels of information: like Arnold Pistorius was at the house when OP was still in the garage, OP was seen out for a meal with Jenna Edkins not long after etc.

28 Feb 2013 The shooting that's stunned the world https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=82869&dl=true&src=false

7 Mar 2013 Oscar's brother Carl after the tragedy https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=87360&dl=true&src=false

14 Mar 2013 New revelations from Reeva's parents Looking for link

28 Mar 2013 Pistorius family's 'circle of trust' https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=92359&dl=true&src=false

18 Apr 2013 Hilton Botha exclusive https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93195&dl=true&src=false

Meanwhile he was spotted on Saturday 6 April at popular cocktail lounge Buddha Ta in Fourways, Johannesburg, having dinner with two women, one of them his ex-girlfriend Jenna Edkins, a witness tells YOU.

2 May 2013 Christo Menelaou interview https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=93728&dl=true&src=false

6 Jun 2013 Farewell Reeva https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=109091&dl=true&src=false

13 Jun 2013 Oscar: no end to the drama https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=157273&dl=true&src=false

17 Oct 2013 Oscar tragedy in 3D https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=187081&dl=true&src=false

13 Feb 2014 Oscar one year later https://media.otd.co.za/Pdf.ashx?id=255046&dl=true&src=false

It looks like the magazine may have wisely learned not to put out previews that include large parts of the headline article after this (e.g. the preview of this week's edition has just 3 pages).

 

[ColonelMustard]

LOL… sleeping with the fishes

For those from other countries /cultures, courtesy of UrbanDictionary.com:


To "sleep with the fishes"...

Killed and thrown in a river, ocean, water body.

"It's an old Sicilian message. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."
-Sal Tessio in the movie "The Godfather".

 

[ColonelMustard]

When during the trial and from whom did we hear about Christo and the thunder claps?

 

[Mr Fossil]

When during the trial and from whom did we hear about Christo and the thunder claps?

We didn't, it's from an interview with Christo in You magazine dated 2 May 2013

 

[Interested Bystander]

We didn't, it's from an interview with Christo in You magazine dated 2 May 2013

What concerns me about this is the timing. Given that Christo is a close friend, I wonder how much of the timing was determined by his knowledge of the event from the media/family members. It, of course, would be of great importance to OP that the "thunderclaps" were early in the time frame. Can't help thinking Christo's "evidence" must be taken with "a pinch of salt".