Post verdict discussion of evidence

[ncsu95]

Can't believe I forgot one of the most famous cases that's been followed/argued for 33+ years. Jeffrey MacDonald (NC). Convicted in 1979 for killing his pregnant wife and 2 young daughters in 1970 and has been serving a life sentence. Was the subject of a famous book by Joe McGinnis and that book was made into a TV Movie starring Gary Cole.

Yep, he's had people arguing his innocence ever since, to no avail. And his case was long before there was DNA testing available. In that case there was a lot of blood evidence. Each of the victims and MacDonald had different blood types, so investigators were able to determine who was where in the apt based on blood type. MacDonald's story didn't match the blood evidence.

I'm fascinated by that case. I remember the house being boarded up still in the late 80s. I loved Fatal Vision (both the book and movie). Here is a great site for that case:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/

Note: The site has everything from the case. Be careful if you go searching around on it. It has crime scene photos and autopsy photos as well. It's heartbreaking.

 

[unc70]

Many of us couldn't wait for the results in Oct 2008 from this blogger.
"Eyes for Lies Blog: A closer look at Brad Cooper.


An absolute unbias person who quickly pulled lies BC told.
As anyone knows, "it is easier to remember the truth, than the lie you told."
IMHO...BC found that to be true. :floorlaugh:

But everyone had to sort through a lot of mis-information. You, of course, remember that 4:20 am HT run.

 

[unc70]

Ummm. You guys just gonna wait it out here until the appeal?

I am waiting to hear from the jury. Also interested in assembling a time-line for the investigation to see if anything jumps out that might explain the CPD going accident prone. The cell phone handling goes beyond suspicious. I asked before but no one responded, did Cary have or have access to a Cellibrite or other cell phone forensic device?

Have been involved long before this case and will continue to do my part to preserve everyone's rights. Noticed the DAs are supporting a bill to restrict Innocence Commission.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/08/1183240/guilty-or-was-plea-just-best-choice.html

 

[Bottle Cap]

I have read the ex's stuff and I'm sorry, but to me it is heresay because it is one-sided. I don't believe there is an affidavit. If so, please post the link because I have seen nothing more than messages from her here.

He had no problem with her going drinking with her friends and on extended vacations without him, even with other men. That is not a possessive/controlling husband characteristic.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/10/13/3726247/20081013092834786.pdf

Someone else already posted the link, but I'll do it again (though it looks funny and I'm not sure I've done it right).

So now you must believe there is an affidavit.

This is BC's behavior both during his relationship with her and upon her breaking things off with him. Very telling, in light of the testimony that he became controlling when his wife wanted to leave. Also, it's the only thing I've read that reveals anything in the slightest about the nature of BC. No one else has anything to say about his personality, his likes, his dislikes, his feelings, his anything. He's been one big blank the whole way through.

ETA: If the real BC is anything like what this woman describes, he had good reason to keep his real self under wraps.

 

[momto3kids]

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/10/13/3726247/20081013092834786.pdf

Someone else already posted the link, but I'll do it again (though it looks funny and I'm not sure I've done it right).

So now you must believe there is an affidavit.

This is BC's behavior both during his relationship with her and upon her breaking things off with him. Very telling, in light of the testimony that he became controlling when his wife wanted to leave. Also, it's the only thing I've read that reveals anything in the slightest about the nature of BC. No one else has anything to say about his personality, his likes, his dislikes, his feelings, his anything. He's been one big blank the whole way through.

ETA: If the real BC is anything like what this woman describes, he had good reason to keep his real self under wraps.

I agree. I'm happy with this insight she gave, especially calling BC out for not remembering her last name.
We have 2 previous relationships state how he was to live with...Jennifer via affidavit and RKAB on WS. KL's affidavit states what it was like during her stays with NC. Dr. James Hilkey, a forensic psychologist testified in 2008 about BC personality type. And NC didn't endure emotional abuse?

Tiger's stripes never change.

 

[azwildcat]

I have a memory of reading an article right after the google evidence came out that prosecutors had had the google evidence since early October 2008. I have looked and looked for that article (I want to think I read it on WRAL.com) and can't find it. It's driving me nuts. I want to know for sure, too.

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9435025/
This article says it was found in September of 2008.

 

[SleuthinNC]

I am waiting to hear from the jury. Also interested in assembling a time-line for the investigation to see if anything jumps out that might explain the CPD going accident prone. The cell phone handling goes beyond suspicious. I asked before but no one responded, did Cary have or have access to a Cellibrite or other cell phone forensic device?

Have been involved long before this case and will continue to do my part to preserve everyone's rights. Noticed the DAs are supporting a bill to restrict Innocence Commission.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/05/08/1183240/guilty-or-was-plea-just-best-choice.html

Yes CPD through Det. Thomas with CCBI had cellibrite and something else maybe FTK. They were used on the blackberry when Det. JY turned it over AFTER wiping the phone and sim.

Of course going through the timeline presented by BL it appears the sim was actually not wiped until after the forensic exam was run.

 

[reading]

It's interesting that JA had way more lies than BC but she was never investigated at all.

How do you and others continue to be suspicious of JA? She was a concerned friend who had the guts to call the police. What lies did she tell? None. She also has no motive for being involved.

 

[Madeleine74]

How do you and others continue to be suspicious of JA? She was a concerned friend who had the guts to call the police. What lies did she tell? None. She also has no motive for being involved.

Amen!

Not a person of interest, not a suspect, verifiable alibi, and not physically able to commit such a crime (smaller than the victim).

Police Depts and the DA do not take their orders from private citizens despite what people would like to imagine in their wild conspiracy theories. The DA makes the call whether to proceed legally or not, based on the case, the evidence, and whether he thinks the case could be proved to a jury. He waited 5 yrs for Ann Miller, 3+ yrs for Jason Young to allow arrest/indictment, despite lots of pressure to proceed. He didn't. He waited, and then waited some more.

 

[DB in FV]

No, because it was more than just the physical presence of the router. There was no record of the call on the Cisco IT system.

Cisco wouldn't have a record. If Brad had a computer, the router, and an FXO card, he had all he needed to create his own home network. In order to believe that the call would show up on Cisco's logs, you'd have to believe that every customer of Cisco has to run their calls through Cisco's network.

I think he used the desktop computer that had been "totally wiped in preparation for donation", unless there is some evidence that the desktop was wiped prior to the morning of 7/12.

 

[macd]

No, because it was more than just the physical presence of the router. There was no record of the call on the Cisco IT system.

There was no necessary involvement from Cisco IT systems.
The router with FXO port, and something like a laptop to configure it, makes for a self contained system. There would be no logs created at Cisco.

 

[macd]

The Gym Bag

Did anyone else notice during a cross-exam of one of BC's co-workers, Kurtz started asking about a gym bag. He had the co-worker testify that it was normal for BC to bring a gym bag to and from work.

The odd thing is that the prosecution never mentioned a gym bag.

I kept waiting for a security guy to testify and show a video of BC coming to work on Saturday with a full gym bag, and leaving with an empty gym bag. But, no such testimony came.

But... Kurtz knew that there was something about a gym bag that needed to be explained.

What do you think? Was defending the unmentioned gym bag a "tell" by Kurtz?

 

[momto3kids]

How do you and others continue to be suspicious of JA? She was a concerned friend who had the guts to call the police. What lies did she tell? None. She also has no motive for being involved.

Welcome Reading. IMO her 911 call identifies her concern and to what extent she went to locate NC before calling.

I believe JA had questions asked, we don't know to what extent.
How is it JA's calendar was presented during testimony by Sandlin who represented the defense during that time? Why did she just give a calendar over that would be used against her, especially since it was blank on the 12th for NC to paint at her house?
How easy for JA to fill in July 12th and make sure her so called story added up. She didn't.

 

[ncsu95]

Cisco wouldn't have a record. If Brad had a computer, the router, and an FXO card, he had all he needed to create his own home network. In order to believe that the call would show up on Cisco's logs, you'd have to believe that every customer of Cisco has to run their calls through Cisco's network.

I think he used the desktop computer that had been "totally wiped in preparation for donation", unless there is some evidence that the desktop was wiped prior to the morning of 7/12.

The computer that was wiped was donated in April.

 

[ncsu95]

How do you and others continue to be suspicious of JA? She was a concerned friend who had the guts to call the police. What lies did she tell? None. She also has no motive for being involved.

I don't believe she was involved, but she did say things that turned out to not be true (ducks, necklace, etc.). She also told MH that since she called the cops, she should be the only one to talk to the cops. So she wanted him to tell her the information to tell the cops. I believe she is also the one that coordinated the affidavits.

 

[macd]

Is there a public link to BC's cell phone records?

 

[reading]

And you think she murdered NC?

I would like to know if sunshine thinks this as well.

 

[ncsu95]

The Gym Bag

Did anyone else notice during a cross-exam of one of BC's co-workers, Kurtz started asking about a gym bag. He had the co-worker testify that it was normal for BC to bring a gym bag to and from work.

The odd thing is that the prosecution never mentioned a gym bag.

I kept waiting for a security guy to testify and show a video of BC coming to work on Saturday with a full gym bag, and leaving with an empty gym bag. But, no such testimony came.

But... Kurtz knew that there was something about a gym bag that needed to be explained.

What do you think? Was defending the unmentioned gym bag a "tell" by Kurtz?

We know he didn't go into the office on Saturday. He didn't go in until the 17th.

 

[momto3kids]

I would like to know if sunshine thinks this as well.

I believe some think she was involved 1 way or another. Being outspoken unfortunately does at times cast a cloud over one, which happens to be JA in this particular case.

 

[Danielle59]

Cisco wouldn't have a record. If Brad had a computer, the router, and an FXO card, he had all he needed to create his own home network. In order to believe that the call would show up on Cisco's logs, you'd have to believe that every customer of Cisco has to run their calls through Cisco's network.

I think he used the desktop computer that had been "totally wiped in preparation for donation", unless there is some evidence that the desktop was wiped prior to the morning of 7/12.

It was reported that that computer was donated some months before. I hearing a lot of supposition but nothing provable. Any of us could do the things you want us to believe happened.