Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[geevee]

You are a true sleuther geevee! Great pics and yep, I get the light reflections. Especially knowing that CMJA was the only one in the bathroom with Travis, what else could it be?

Someone else on here mentioned that CMJA could have exited stage left by pushing out the screen to the back yard. I wonder how high that window is that she could have shut it behind her? And, I wonder if LE thought to fingerprint the window opening? So many questions, very few answers ...sigh lol

Awww, shucks. lol

Since the office is on the ground floor I bet that window isn't too high to scoot out of, that was a great thought, really makes sense.

 

[Dana]

It is funny, isn't it, that when she was talking to Flores she mentioned how she thought that was a great picture of Travis but he hated it (I have the whole quote here somewhere, I wrote it down because I wondered how either of them could have had a decent look at the pic to form conclusions considering what had happened so soon after it was taken).

I see two different expressions on that pic, the left eye (as we look) seems impatient and the right looks like it just noticed or realized something not good. For me I can't read it as a whole expression, but the one before it says he knows he's stuck in something bad.

Yes, I get 2 different types of emotions out of that pic also. One eye looks like it could be even fear or something about to happen and the other eye looks like complete pissoffedness. Yes, I made that word up

 

[Dana]

Oh, I meant to add .. you posted a photobucket bunch of pics and in the one you mention there is discoloration along the shower strip at the bottom. I found another pic in that bunch without Travis in the shower and there isn't any discoloration. I think it might be either Travis' or JA's reflection.

 

[Dana]

I knew I saw a pic that didn't seem right. In the first pic, there's that ceiling light reflection and the second pic, no light. So I need assume that's because of the reflection off the shower door in one pic and no shower door in the other? I guess that's why I questioned it earlier. Ok then, I'm off to bed fftobed:

 

[geevee]

Oh, I meant to add .. you posted a photobucket bunch of pics and in the one you mention there is discoloration along the shower strip at the bottom. I found another pic in that bunch without Travis in the shower and there isn't any discoloration. I think it might be either Travis' or JA's reflection.

I'll give it and the other ones I have showing that area a good looking over tomorrow but it seems like it couldn't be anything except her. Will sleep on it and investigate after the jury gets the Young case. I may boycott the Chrisman trial if they don't get a live stream up that's live. lol Nite!

 

[aa9511]

Oh man...these pics are giving me the creepies. This case is just so horrific, what she did to him. After a break from the trial, now looking back at these pics, I have no doubt that she deserves the death penalty.

I think Martinez should definately get the next jury to really "feel" the pain...like get them to imagine cutting their finger a bit chopping vegetables or something, and how much that little cut hurts and stings and, to me, how awful the sight of even a little blood is. And this evil monster CMJA was covered in it and surrounded by it in the bathroom, and it did nothing to her. It did not for even a second slow her down or cause her to re-think killing him at the end. Nope, it was just business to her. Clock out and go about her business.

Also, during re-trial, I really think Juan should selectively show Travis' autopsy/crime photos. As awful as it sounds, I think after 5 months, the jury got kind of de-sensitized to it after seeing them so much. Like, oh yeah she stabbed him 29 times plus slit his throat plus shot him...oh yeah but she's STILL not THAT bad...as Juror 18 suggested. They are going to get all the pics in the jury room anyway, so I would really suggest Juan to show them less (as if he listens to my "suggestions!").

Also, during the trial Juan kept repeating over and over, stabbed him 29 times, slit his throat, shot him....I think he should also say that line less so it has more impact. So the jury can really soak in what that means and what she did and the gravity of what she did. Maybe he was saying it a lot so that the jury would believe that was what happened, instead of believing the defense's version which was a different order, of course. So in that way he was effective. But now the jury has already found her guilty, I think he should say it less now for more impact.

 

[aa9511]

If she wanted to save money she would not have filled them all up in ca. No one carries 15 gallons of gas in their trunk to save money. A heavier car uses more gas plus you are creating a bomb should you be rear ended.

No this was absolutely to cover her trip to Mesa.

I was talking about when she filled up her 3 gas cans in Salt Lake City going back to CA, after the murder. Someone was asking why she would have done that, so I was saying she probably just did it 'cause she dumb.

 

[aa9511]

I am coming to the conclusion that filling them all up in SLC after leaving Ryan had to do with disposing of the weapons. She didn't need gas in the cans, even if, for the sake of argument, that Winnemucca was the only place to get gas after SLC, she knew she could make it there, it was a shorter trip than Pasadena to Mesa, and she made that with what was in the tank.

But she told Juan that 15 miles outside of Winne. the low gas light came on and she searched on her phone and found the closest station was 15 miles away, so she put gas in the car from a can.

But when she gets to Winne. she puts 12.175 gallons in the car, one transaction only. He uses it to establish how much gas can fit in the tank but also showed that had she put any from a can into the tank it was extremely minimal because she only drove 15 miles and could still fit more than 12 gallons in the tank.

I say that she went from SLC somewhere to dispose of the weapons, used some can gas for burning the clothes and nearly ran out of gas getting back on her route outside of Winnemucca. Otherwise there is no reason on earth to carry a smelly bomb in your trunk in the summertime. In the desert.

Weapons must be west of a point between SLC and Winne., or around the Great Salt Lake - had Travis and she ever made a trip there? If she actually did call a gas station in Winne. the ping could be used to pinpoint which direction she was coming to Winne. from.

Wow wow wow...good thinking! My only problem with this is, if it's true that she was worried about the checkpoint at Hoover Dam, wouldn't she have wanted to dispose of the weapons before she got there? B/c what if the guy at the checkpoint had said, "M'am...open your trunk, please"...and it would all be over for her.

 

[gcharlie]

I am coming to the conclusion that filling them all up in SLC after leaving Ryan had to do with disposing of the weapons. She didn't need gas in the cans, even if, for the sake of argument, that Winnemucca was the only place to get gas after SLC, she knew she could make it there, it was a shorter trip than Pasadena to Mesa, and she made that with what was in the tank.

But she told Juan that 15 miles outside of Winne. the low gas light came on and she searched on her phone and found the closest station was 15 miles away, so she put gas in the car from a can.

But when she gets to Winne. she puts 12.175 gallons in the car, one transaction only. He uses it to establish how much gas can fit in the tank but also showed that had she put any from a can into the tank it was extremely minimal because she only drove 15 miles and could still fit more than 12 gallons in the tank.

I say that she went from SLC somewhere to dispose of the weapons, used some can gas for burning the clothes and nearly ran out of gas getting back on her route outside of Winnemucca. Otherwise there is no reason on earth to carry a smelly bomb in your trunk in the summertime. In the desert.

Weapons must be west of a point between SLC and Winne., or around the Great Salt Lake - had Travis and she ever made a trip there? If she actually did call a gas station in Winne. the ping could be used to pinpoint which direction she was coming to Winne. from.

Geevee, just playing devi;'s advocate here. Does time really allow for this? CMJA filled up at the Tessoro station near SLC around 4 in the morning. To the best of my knowledge, the time of her gas purchase in Winnemucca is not available, however we have seen a time stamped receipt from Sparks, NV with a time stamp of 10:35 am.

Using Google maps, the distance from SLC to Sparks is 515 miles and should take about 7 hours to drive. The time stamps between the beginning and end points are just over 7 hours and are consistent with a straight trip without detours. I am not from that part of the country and do not know how much the mountainous terrain affects travel time on these routes.

 

[gcharlie]

This is more of a curiosity question than anything else and it pertains to that whole time period when CMJA changed her "alternate reality" from the Ninja's to self defense.

IIRC, Samuels indicated that this was somewhere around April 2010. When he interviewed her in January 2010, she was still telling the story about the masked intruders, but later that year she had a therapeutic breakthrough.

"On June 1, 2010 the defendant disclosed to the State copies of ten letters purportedly written by Travis Alexander."

In 2010, CMJA's aunt "found" the helio phone holding the recorded phone sex, according to CMJA's answer to a juror's question.

Who was assisting her in all of this, and how did she manage to manipulate the system? She was in jail where her mail is limited to postcards and her outgoing mail is subject to review. Likewise, her phone calls are recorded. Did she somehow use her lawyers as a conduit? We've seen a letter that she wrote to Ryan Burns in 2009, so somehow she was able to get that out instead of a postcard.

It is too much of a coincidence that the cell phone appeared during this time period and that the aunt turned it over to authorities then.

I remember reading that DOC people found evidence of CMJA and her cell mate practice papers to imitate Travis's handwriting in her cell with TA's family commenting on this. The amount of planning and the lengths that CMJA went to in order for these letters to be introduced had to be significant. First the letters had to be written. Then they had to be smuggled out of jail somehow??? It then really begins to mushroom and I do not know how these letters came to be in the possession of the defense team.

 

[geevee]

Wow wow wow...good thinking! My only problem with this is, if it's true that she was worried about the checkpoint at Hoover Dam, wouldn't she have wanted to dispose of the weapons before she got there? B/c what if the guy at the checkpoint had said, "M'am...open your trunk, please"...and it would all be over for her.

I have been leery about her having gone through that checkpoint since we only have her word and the cell tower pings for any areas she was in that evening, but I thought JM would have put someone on the stand to testify or introduce security camera footage from the checkpoint to verify one way or the other, and he didn't, so I still undecided on that. But you may be right, I believe she did have ample time that night before getting towards Ryan's but it was dark so going into the desert to bury or burn things seems iffy also. Arrgg, the continuing questions. lol

 

[geevee]

Geevee, just playing devi;'s advocate here. Does time really allow for this? CMJA filled up at the Tessoro station near SLC around 4 in the morning. To the best of my knowledge, the time of her gas purchase in Winnemucca is not available, however we have seen a time stamped receipt from Sparks, NV with a time stamp of 10:35 am.

Using Google maps, the distance from SLC to Sparks is 515 miles and should take about 7 hours to drive. The time stamps between the beginning and end points are just over 7 hours and are consistent with a straight trip without detours. I am not from that part of the country and do not know how much the mountainous terrain affects travel time on these routes.

You, right, you're right, another crucial detail I overlooked. I was so busy checking mileage and distance I forgot to make sure she had the time to go a good distance each way away from her route to SLC. I know she had the time after leaving T's and before hitting Ryan's, but being that it was dark and she was limited on gas I don't know how she could have - unless she did get gas in Buckeye, AZ, but there's only her word, no receipt or bank statement.

Do you think she had time to deal with the weapons before the checkpoint?

 

[geevee]

This is more of a curiosity question than anything else and it pertains to that whole time period when CMJA changed her "alternate reality" from the Ninja's to self defense.

IIRC, Samuels indicated that this was somewhere around April 2010. When he interviewed her in January 2010, she was still telling the story about the masked intruders, but later that year she had a therapeutic breakthrough.

"On June 1, 2010 the defendant disclosed to the State copies of ten letters purportedly written by Travis Alexander."

In 2010, CMJA's aunt "found" the helio phone holding the recorded phone sex, according to CMJA's answer to a juror's question.

Who was assisting her in all of this, and how did she manage to manipulate the system? She was in jail where her mail is limited to postcards and her outgoing mail is subject to review. Likewise, her phone calls are recorded. Did she somehow use her lawyers as a conduit? We've seen a letter that she wrote to Ryan Burns in 2009, so somehow she was able to get that out instead of a postcard.

It is too much of a coincidence that the cell phone appeared during this time period and that the aunt turned it over to authorities then.

I remember reading that DOC people found evidence of CMJA and her cell mate practice papers to imitate Travis's handwriting in her cell with TA's family commenting on this. The amount of planning and the lengths that CMJA went to in order for these letters to be introduced had to be significant. First the letters had to be written. Then they had to be smuggled out of jail somehow??? It then really begins to mushroom and I do not know how these letters came to be in the possession of the defense team.

You raise such good questions, I haven't given this area a lot of thought but I will, thanks for bringing it up, gc.

 

[Dana]

At some point after CMJA's arrest while in jail didn't she act as her own attorney so she was able to get and send info? I'm not sure when that took place.

 

[gcharlie]

At some point after CMJA's arrest while in jail didn't she act as her own attorney so she was able to get and send info? I'm not sure when that took place.

She acted as her own counsel in the summer of 2011 for a very brief spell of only a few weeks. She presented an oral argument to act as counsel on 8/8/2011 and on 8/9/2011, Washington and Nurmi were appointed as advisory counsel. There was an evidentiary hearing on 8/15/2011 and it was ruled that the letters be precluded from evidence. At the end of this hearing, CMJA made an oral motion to withdraw as counsel and Washington and Nurmi were reinstated.

This time frame was very, very short and she would not have been able to do much then. It is also after the fact of 2010 events.

My take on this is that her lawyers were not willing to argue certain things about the pedo letters and this is when she took the reins of control. However she wanted to approach this most likely would have meant a breach of ethics on their part and so the only way that she could get this in would be to act on her own behalf.

 

[Tuba]

Overnight I suddenly recalled that Judge Stephens ordered all motions to be in by August 8. It isn't merely Nurmi's reply that is way overdue. Since neither side is filing anything during this last chance & the window slammed shut, I think we have a pregnant silence. We already know the Benson rulings and opinion spoiled Vacate the Aggravator!, a yards long motion from Defense. Will Not & Nor Me may have exhausted the files along with any & all inventions to save the day. Are State and Defense Team burning up the wires negotiating a resolution to this penalty?

 

[gcharlie]

Overnight I suddenly recalled that Judge Stephens ordered all motions to be in by August 5. It isn't merely Nurmi's reply that is way overdue. Since neither side is filing anything during this last chance & the window slammed shut, I think we have a pregnant silence. We already know the Benson rulings and opinion spoiled Vacate the Aggravator!, a yards long motion from Defense. Will Not & Nor Me may have exhausted the files along with any & all inventions to save the day. Are State and Defense Team burning up the wires negotiating a resolution to this penalty?

I didn't pick up on Stephens setting a cutoff date for motions.

I agree with former Attorney General Grant Woods observation of CMJA, but not his assessment of what the State may be willing to offer in a plea. http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/22420200/2013/05/24/challenges-in-retrying-penalty-phase-of-arias-trial

"Woods also said if they do decide to go the route of a plea, he doesn't think the state will be able to talk Arias into a plea of life without parole. Instead, to get her to plea, they may need to offer life with the possibility of parole after 25 years.

"I don't think so. For a couple of reasons. I'm guessing obviously one is, she obviously enjoys this process. She has manipulated the criminal justice system for her own self-aggrandizement from the moment she pulled the trigger. And it hasn't stopped and I don't think it will stop. It's time someone stops it and it's time to stop her. But that being the case, I think she enjoys it so the idea 'I'm going to have to go through this all again compared to what?' Sitting in her cell down in Florence? You know, that's not so bad. Being down here in the limelight isn't so bad compared to that."

BBM.

I can't see her making or accepting a reasonable plea to avoid the death penalty. Likewise, I cannot see Travis's family agreeing to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years; I do not consider this a reasonable agreement given the nature of the crime.

 

[TexMex]

Well the door would have to be closed or we could never see the reflection on the glass.

That's what I'm saying....some see a "reflection", I see a German Shepherd with a stick! And since testimony and evidence say the shower door was open I say "good dog"!

 

[geevee]

I have a picture in my folder and it has the wrong time on it (pic #1), last night I was trying to figure out if it was the same pic as one with a correct time (the one below it) but couldn't decide if they are the same pic or if the first one is the elusive exhibit #152 that wasn't shown in court when JM was putting them all on the projector, or one with a time not reflected in my notes at all.

His head looks to be on his left wrist in pic #2 (and underneath in pic #1), but I can't tell if that's blur from pic #2 being moved when I screenshot it. Maybe your sleuthing eyes can make out whether they are the same photo or not. I was intending to make a chart of the time and how many seconds passed between each pic but I have to be sure I have all the pics/times accurate first. lol Thanks.

Pic 1

Pic 2

 

[deedee21]

You, right, you're right, another crucial detail I overlooked. I was so busy checking mileage and distance I forgot to make sure she had the time to go a good distance each way away from her route to SLC. I know she had the time after leaving T's and before hitting Ryan's, but being that it was dark and she was limited on gas I don't know how she could have - unless she did get gas in Buckeye, AZ, but there's only her word, no receipt or bank statement.

Do you think she had time to deal with the weapons before the checkpoint?

She sure did have time to get rid of the weapons before the checkpoint. The only reason the checkpoint story came into play is because this is when the fog lifted. Remember the interrogation tapes? At some point Jodi admitted being at Travis' house. Det. Flores asked jodi a few times "why did you kill Travis"? Im going to paraphase. She said if I did it , its because of the things he said to me. She went on to say, but other people have said worse things to me and they are still alive. We know she stole grandpas gun after Travis told her she was evil and that she was the worst thing that ever happen to him. He also found out about something she did and was giving her 24 hours to come clean. Even though she did not make reference to Flores about this, Im sure this is what she was talking about. This was an indirect admission to why she killed him. We already know about this. It came out at trial.

. Det. Flores asked jodi how she felt when she left Travis'? She said " I was scared". How would she remember that if she was in a fog?