Post Verdict -Working Out The Unresolved Questions

[jbc]

Hi.....

Forever, I've been scratching my head about just how much driving JA was capable of doing, all through the night, without getting sleepy. How many of us drive all through the night just to go visit someone (no matter how obsessed)? Also, I've been boggled by JA beginning some of her long drives in the wee early hours, like between 2 and 5 am. Who does that?

Who does that?.....truckdrivers.

So, it occurs to me just now that she must have been taking speed. Perhaps lots of it. And, got into the habit of taking some as part of her pre-drive routine. And chronic speed use does indeed change someone's personality. It might account for DB's observation that JA's behavior changed beginning in 2006 - although he was not specific.

So, here's my scenario. JA was an amphetamine/meth/adderal user. Upon getting ready to leave TA's house and drive to UT, she pops speed - perhaps a greater than normal dose because she's tired from all of the activity with TA and has a long drive ahead. Of course she's agitated because of the whole Cancun situation, and/or whatever else that's floating in her crazy mind. She intends to leave peacefully, but then she has an amphetamine-induced psychotic break and freaks out with the knife. I mean who wouldn't have to be in a psychotic state to do what she did? Under a high dose of speed, people can still act with purposeful intention, and so she would still be able to attempt the complicated cleaning of the evidence. So she cleans up the best she can, and gets in the car to begin her drive.

And she doesn't remember large parts of it because of the short-term memory loss induced by the drug - not the whole stress thing of Samuels. She eventually recovers from the overdose a few hours down the road as she's driving north and puts 2+2 together and cleans her car, gets rid of evidence, makes the bad choices that are truly her nature, etc.

She knows she did it. But, she doesn't actually remember the details. Perhaps this is true. This is not uncommon for someone overdosing on a stimulant. I wonder if anyone ever asked her about taking those drugs.

Not that I think that this absolves her of anything. But, it might account for a lot - especially her unique ability to drive obsessively without ever sleeping.

 

[Tuba]

What makes you think she intended to leave peacefully? This is a premeditated murder. That was proven to the satisfaction of all jurors at trial not to mention the grand jury indictment that led to trial. All of that will, resolve and forethought was detailed by the prosecution and here too.

Apart from that notion, you have raised an interesting question. Was she ingesting anything whatever that could have affected her for two years? I don't believe that, I think her personality imbalances and disorders explain her ability to function on little sleep (and make it up later, like Travis did). I do think cheating your restorative reserves can take severe tolls on your mental health. We have seen her, in any case, free of "forwards" or Adderal for five years now and she is still bizarre, aggressive, combative and incapable of telling it straight. Anything but normal.

 

[LambChop]

What makes you think she intended to leave peacefully? This is a premeditated murder. That was proven to the satisfaction of all jurors at trial not to mention the grand jury indictment that led to trial. All of that will, resolve and forethought was detailed by the prosecution and here too.

Apart from that notion, you have raised an interesting question. Was she ingesting anything whatever that could have affected her for two years? I don't believe that, I think her personality imbalances and disorders explain her ability to function on little sleep (and make it up later, like Travis did). I do think cheating your restorative reserves can take severe tolls on your mental health. We have seen her, in any case, free of "forwards" or Adderal for five years now and she is still bizarre, aggressive, combative and incapable of telling it straight. Anything but normal.

Starbucks coffee. She seemed to be addicted to their coffee. And Starbucks coffee, to me, is very, very strong. Plus a shot of espresso and she'd be good to go....all night.

 

[gcharlie]

Unanswered question: what were the results of DeMarte's SARA assessment? The defense filed a motion to preclude this information from entering into court, thus I assume that it cast the defendant in a very poor light.

http://78.158.56.101/archive/psychology/miniprojects/riskassessment/Violence%20RA/the_spousal_assault_risk_assessment.html

Re: CMJA and her long hours of driving. Her generation at that age kept very irregular hours and often were up until the wee hours of the morning. KIM the texts, IMs and phone calls between her and Travis that took place very, very late.

When I was in my twenties, I was able to pull all-nighters and still be able to work in a high pressure environment the next day. I can't do that anymore, but between CMJA's age and history, she could have done this without it affecting her too much.

 

[Tuba]

Defense probably went for a ruling of too prejudicial for its probative value. Maybe the prosecution could give the assessment another try after strongly bolstering its reliability. Only fair after the variety of assessments Defense put forth as absolutes.

 

[gcharlie]

I'm still not clear how the whole retrial thing works. The new jury will have to be brought up to speed in terms of key aspects of the guilt and aggravation phase. How this will be done, I'm not certain.

With the mitigation phase, I'm curious if the prosecution can bring in anything that the defense brought into court during the first penalty trial?

 

[Tuba]

It has always seemed to me that Defense rides the brakes in this process of retrying convicted murderer's and that it is strategic. I haven't been quiet about that. Looking for news of Nurmi's legal reply, due today, I came across the following insight from Harvard Negotiation Law Review.

"Defense counsel also note, surprisingly, that there is a less obvious alternative to an offered plea agreement than going to trial. Simply dragging a case out & making it somewhat stale for prosecutors may create additional opportunities for several reasons. 'My feeling is that the older as case gets, the less interest prosecutors have in it.' In addition, they may no longer feel the same pressure to attain a particular outcome."

Psych!

 

[Ricki]

It has always seemed to me that Defense rides the brakes in this process of retrying convicted murderer's and that it is strategic. I haven't been quiet about that. Looking for news of Nurmi's legal reply, due today, I came across the following insight from Harvard Negotiation Law Review.

"Defense counsel also note, surprisingly, that there is a less obvious alternative to an offered plea agreement than going to trial. Simply dragging a case out & making it somewhat stale for prosecutors may create additional opportunities for several reasons. 'My feeling is that the older as case gets, the less interest prosecutors have in it.' In addition, they may no longer feel the same pressure to attain a particular outcome."

Psych!

Hi Tuba,
The Defense team can stall all they want. If they are hoping that Juan Martinez will become less interested in this case I believe they are going to be disappointed.

 

[Tuba]

Either Judge Stephens or Juan Martinez should call their bluff. For all we know, they already have.

Has anyone seen the filing of Nurmi's reply to the State? (Due today, August 5.)

 

[Tuba]

I just went over the criminal case entries. Nurmi has not yet filed at 5:30 p.m. AZ standard time.

 

[geevee]

I just went over the criminal case entries. Nurmi has not yet filed at 5:30 p.m. AZ standard time.

That's surprising, wonder if he has ever been late before?

 

[geevee]

Then of course, there's this:

Jodi Arias ‏@Jodiannarias 1h My book club gets an early start at http://JodisPage.com , thanks to @HeinzFrick

 

[LambChop]

Then of course, there's this:

Jodi Arias ‏@Jodiannarias 1h My book club gets an early start at http://JodisPage.com , thanks to @HeinzFrick

Can I sign up for "Crime and Punishment"?????

 

[Ricki]

Then of course, there's this:

Jodi Arias ‏@Jodiannarias 1h My book club gets an early start at http://JodisPage.com , thanks to @HeinzFrick

Looks like that page was developed by one of her admiring supporters. Not surprised.

 

[geevee]

Can I sign up for "Crime and Punishment"?????

:floorlaugh:

 

[geevee]

Looks like that page was developed by one of her admiring supporters. Not surprised.

I haven't looked at it yet, afraid I'll catch cooties. :blushing:

 

[aa9511]

I have sooooo many unresolved issues/questions....mostly pertaining to exactly how the murder went down. What time exactly did she arrive at the house? Did Travis know she was coming? Did she watch him secretly when she first got there? How exactly did she do the clean-up in the bathroom with all of that blood contained in the bathroom and not a drop elsewhere in the house? Where did she dispose of the weapons and how? And so on and so forth....I'm sure we'll never know the answers.

 

[MissJ]

Not all the blood was in the Bathroom. A lot in the hallway. Blood smear on washer IIRC

 

[geevee]

Seems like she knew just where she needed to clean up, the center of the bathroom/hallway floor, the walls where she threw water, the shower walls, his body.

As out of control as the whole scene looks it seems she remembered the places she touched and cleaned/wiped/threw water on them, and since only one palm print and one hair of hers was found, she did a pretty good job. Not bad for a first-time murderess.

I was thinking, earlier when we were talking about her dragging him and that maybe-shape on the carpet, she had to drag him down the tile whether on something or not. There should be some dragging marks on the floor, whether from his body or something else, yet we see none, so there must have been a good deal of water in the hallway to obliterate them.

I was looking at 5:30:30 (sitting shower pic) last night and wondering what that dark area is on the sole of T's foot (heel, actually), and whats on the back of his other heel, and why does half of the porcelain under the shower stall look reddish? Doesn't seem like there would be that much reflection from the tile and you can see the water that's spilled over the edge, it isn't picking up the tile color so why that section closest to the flash?

And I keep thinking I see a fingertip or two on the right of the pic, over his lower calf/ankle. Could be part of the blur from his legs moving quickly but I don't think so. It's on all of the pics I have showing the lower area w/timestamp no matter which day they were shown on, so don't think it's an anomaly but it's not clear, either.

When JM showed it during closing it had best coloration so far but can't see his feet, it was too close, you can see the water in the shower pan moving though, illustrating that although his arm position looks at rest, his lower area was in motion. I wonder what accounts for that?

 

[gcharlie]

Geevee. I agree with you that given what had to have taken place that day, CMJA's manipulation of the crime scene was very close to being effective and is further demonstration to me of premeditation. As JM said in his closing remarks, there was no blood in the bedroom or the hallway. Given the textured pattern of the walls and the amount of blood, the handprint was probably easy for CMJA to miss. With all that transpired, she left only three small pieces of evidence at the scene. If it weren't for them, the case would have been built on circumstantial evidence and her detention most likely would have been delayed. I still believe that she would have been convicted.

Very interesting observation re: reddish tinge on the track of the shower door. The color does appear to be more concentrated closer to the camera. I recall someone else pointing our the reddish mark near the corner of the door frame. It may well be that Travis had been injured prior to the completion of the series of shower pictures. Which makes his final hour on earth even more drawn out and horrific.

I've always believed that TA was under considerable duress for more than just the time in the shower. He was known for his lists and how much he would accomplish in a day. Even CMJA talked about this in one of her interviews. We know that furniture had been moved in his house and a floor cleaner was in some stage of preparation for use. The day definitely did not go down as CMJA related.