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[Gerontion]

I've thought this all along. It's my belief that LISK knows where hookers gather and what they look like, then goes there and waits for the right moment. A kind smile or hello at the right time can be very disarming to any young lady. I think if there had been any contact at all with any of these women beforehand, LE would have linked it up and jumped on it. Completely random/chance encounters between LISK and his victims explains alot.

BBM
More likely "pre-planned" random/chance encounters by an SK and working girls who advertized on CL.

 

[mcme]

BBM
More likely "pre-planned" random/chance encounters by an SK and working girls who advertized on CL.

The random part was who he met after he went someplace he was fairly sure he'd meet someone. That those women had ads online somewhere may just be a coincidence, and not at all related to how they where selected.

 

[mcme]

These were working girls. They weren't out there looking for a boyfriend, they provided services for money. I'm sure being a semi-normal guy that wasn't a total weirdo helps, but that's about all that should be necessary. Didn't the killer phone ALC several times the day she was last seen alive before she left to meet up with the guy? There's been a lot of talk that he doesn't kill every girl he comes across, just when the urge strikes. This was also the case with Joel Rifkin.



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At least two of them were not working at all. One was looking for a ride home from a bus terminal, and another was was going to the quick mart/gas station for smokes. And whoever called ALC several times may not be her killer but her last job.

 

[Gerontion]

These were working girls. They weren't out there looking for a boyfriend, they provided services for money. I'm sure being a semi-normal guy that wasn't a total weirdo helps, but that's about all that should be necessary. Didn't the killer phone ALC several times the day she was last seen alive before she left to meet up with the guy? There's been a lot of talk that he doesn't kill every girl he comes across, just when the urge strikes. This was also the case with Joel Rifkin.


We have to be careful jumping to the conclusion that the guy who spent a lot of time on the phone with ALC, promising her a lot of money, and insisting she not bring her phone (and recall, she left as-is, jeans and a hoodie) is the Killer. Granted, it looks very very bad for him. But we don't see any such nefarious methods in the cases of the other three girls. I have a hard time reconciling that MO of an apparently bad-guy john, with, for example the way MBB disappeared from a Bus Terminal. Seems like entirely different types of behaviour. And yet, they both ended up dumped on the side of the expressway with MW and MB. It is almost as if all we really have is four girls who were engaged in the same business, each of whom advertized on CL, ultimately ending up in a common dump site.
AstroKitty is evidently aware of the type of behaviour exhibited by the ego driven john as described by DS. AstroKitty, did those bad-guy johns end up killing their "prey"?

 

[Gerontion]

The random part was who he met after he went someplace he was fairly sure he'd meet someone. That those women had ads online somewhere may just be a coincidence, and not at all related to how they where selected.

Hmmm. Yeah, ok. Seems we are talking about a truely stealthy, lurking in the shadows, snake in the grass, kind o' guy. A real predator. I do believe he is the guy who repeatedly phoned MB's sister.
While I am on the subject, I want to get something out there. I hesitate to mention it because I have never been able to find it again, and have no link. There was an early TV documentary on the LISK. From memory, so forgive me, someone spoke about MB working at a strip club and that she was approached by a guy who knew of better "business opportunities" for her. Later in the show it spoke about the calls to MB's sister. It struck me as a lightbulb moment, and my mind told me that obviously the guy who was phoning the sister was the guy from the strip club. And my mind further made the leap that he was really calling the sister to find out what she knew. That is, what information had MB told her sister about "the guy in the strip club". He was out to make sure his tracks were covered. Call me crazy.

 

[deedee21]

Some of the points you make in this post are well worth repeating. There has been no evidence presented of the G4 having a john in common. Their last calls/contacts have no known common demoninator. What ties them together is they advertized on CL, had some somewhat similiar age/stature/profiles, and were found together at Gilgo Beach, having been disposed of in similar manners. I like Peter Brendts hypothesis about a stalker. Let's call the guy an "outlier". He nibbled around the edges of the trade. MBB disappeared from a bus terminal. MW dissapeared from outside a hotel. ALC disappeared a block from her home in a suburban neighborhood. MB was yet another entirely different scenario (that I can't offhand recall). It is hard to find an MO there.

MB lived in the Bronx. She told her boyfriend/ pimp she was going to Long Island. Theres no way to know if she traveled there on her own or was picked up in the Bronx.

 

[deedee21]

What exactly is a burner phone? I understand there are prepaid phones. But even then wouldn't the number still show up? Does a burner phone stop the number from showing up?
The only thing I've read about a prepaid phone being used is when calls were made to MB boyfriend-pimp using the name mickey mouse. So I've always wondered why they never seemed to find the same thing on any of these girls phone. However I guess if they did that would prob be something LE wouldn't share with the public.

Theres alot of street vendors in NYC. You can buy anything from a pocketbook, T shirt, to a untraceable phone. They are throw away phones. There would be no electronic fingerprint. Just speculating. Theres more we dont know than we actually do know.

 

[deedee21]

Hmmm. Yeah, ok. Seems we are talking about a truely stealthy, lurking in the shadows, snake in the grass, kind o' guy. A real predator. I do believe he is the guy who repeatedly phoned MB's sister.
While I am on the subject, I want to get something out there. I hesitate to mention it because I have never been able to find it again, and have no link. There was an early TV documentary on the LISK. From memory, so forgive me, someone spoke about MB working at a strip club and that she was approached by a guy who knew of better "business opportunities" for her. Later in the show it spoke about the calls to MB's sister. It struck me as a lightbulb moment, and my mind told me that obviously the guy who was phoning the sister was the guy from the strip club. And my mind further made the leap that he was really calling the sister to find out what she knew. That is, what information had MB told her sister about "the guy in the strip club". He was out to make sure his tracks were covered. Call me crazy.

That was early on. She was living in Buffallo at the time. I dont if it was the same guy she was in the Bronx with.

 

[genericwhitemale]

MB lived in the Bronx. She told her boyfriend/ pimp she was going to Long Island. Theres no way to know if she traveled there on her own or was picked up in the Bronx.

Yup. I bet she was picked up as she was last seen sitting on the curb in front of her apartment.


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[giagreen]

At least two of them were not working at all. One was looking for a ride home from a bus terminal, and another was was going to the quick mart/gas station for smokes. And whoever called ALC several times may not be her killer but her last job.

That is exactly what I am saying. And I am sure many of us know here just from reading other forms on this website how easy it really is to snatch a girl off the streets and how common it really is.

 

[giagreen]

I've also thought a lot about MB and how she may have ended up in the hands of the LISK. However, maybe just maybe if this guy was a hunter and liked to watch his prey before hand he had seen her walking home later that night or new about what times she normally would be headed home. IDK just a thought.
With MBB and MW we do know that they were taken after they were done for the night. So who's to say this guy didn't snatch MB up after she was done for the night and on her way home. Same could very easily go for ALC.
IDk from day one I just always felt that when it came to MBB and MW it told the most about how this guy works and how he was able to get to the women in the first place.

 

[Gerontion]

MB lived in the Bronx. She told her boyfriend/ pimp she was going to Long Island. Theres no way to know if she traveled there on her own or was picked up in the Bronx.

Yes. Upon futher review of MB's case, it does appear that it does have some parallels to ALC's case. She too was offered a lot of money, $1k, and she was very "secretive" about her exact plans, even to her boyfriend/pimp. She also left her premises, alone, and hit street level to get picked up by the "john". But we know she did bring her phone with her, because it ended up in the hands of the SK. So now I am wavering again. There may be a consistent MO by the SK, at least in the cases of MB and ALC.

 

[Gerontion]

That was early on. She was living in Buffallo at the time. I dont if it was the same guy she was in the Bronx with.

deedee21, are you saying the "strip club guy" story was about a strip club in Buffalo, before she moved to the Bronx?

 

[AstroKitty]

I haven't read all the questions, but I will when i get back from some errands and can concentrate.

I really think with the consistency of money (1K +), the secrecy and the cell phone issue - this person probably lies about who they are (obviously) to the extent that people do believe him to be famous/important. Personally I would never ever go without my cell and many other measures, no matter what the amount is and their sob story reasoning. But new girls and naive girls would. Those who've never had a bad run in among other things would be too trusting. never under estimate the power of the almighty dollar bill. or the power of being starstruck - thinking that you hit the mother load (the elusive whale and white knight of clients). Most of these women come into the "game" to get rich quick, not to make a career out of it. THey are searching for a meal ticket, a way out and if they can't afford it by earning it - they'll land a John that will marry them. I call it the Pretty Woman Syndrome.

Most women do NOT start out as hookers, they start out in strip clubs or nude modeling. And eventually money gets tough, the right proposition comes through from a regular and things tumble from there. Not all but some go this route. Not all strippers are hookers. Not all nude models are strippers. not all hookers are strippers or models. But the majority are all a combo of 3. Whether they want to be honest about it is another topic entirely. It all sorta blends together after awhile.

I did read a question in that do I know of any shady clients who posed as well known professionals that did murder a girl? (I think I read it right, please correct me if I didn't): the short answer is yes. Yes I have. It's been a very long time (6 or 8 years ago now) but I do know of 2 women in Chicago that were considered associates and friends that were murdered by clients they had seen more than once. Same guy, different ways of killing them both. He was jealous and greedy. Both women were high end escorts with private incall locations in a very posh area of Chicago. Both were found by concerned friends after they didn't check in for 12 hours. One was hung from her ceiling fan and the other was beat with a hammer, she was half way out of her window attempting to escape (apparently she threw a chair through it). Around the same time there was a serial killer in the city who was picking women up (street walkers) and dumping them by the railroad tracks near a club I worked at. I have no idea if he was ever caught, it was VERY scary.

Most that pose as celebs rob and rape the girls. Others that use celebrity status are just whack jobs that want to get out of actually paying - and do tons of odd ball things but none are violent, just malicious in intent.

what sucks is that girls are more fearful of getting arrested then they are of getting harmed.

 

[Theforeigner]

At least two of them were not working at all. One was looking for a ride home from a bus terminal, and another was was going to the quick mart/gas station for smokes. And whoever called ALC several times may not be her killer but her last job.

Do you have a link for that info that MG went out "for smokes" ?

I´m not aware that info have ever been published, and by the way; how would anyone know that information???

 

[AstroKitty]

I've given up for now in trying to understand what the real facts are in this case. I came into this far too late and what I'm finding is muddled facts combined with a lot of rumors misconstrued as truths.

I again am going to ask for MSM links or a general direction that has the specific cases people are asking me to give an opinion about. I had no idea that there are 2 separate cases (?). I thought all the people we are speaking about were the LISK's doing. Again, I'm highly confused at no fault of anyone. I do not think it's beneficial for me to read the threads already here because it's just going to confuse me farther and sway my opinions. I rather just give a first impression type thing.

 

[giagreen]

Do you have a link for that info that MG went out "for smokes" ?

I´m not aware that info have ever been published, and by the way; how would anyone know that information???

It's this video at 5:25 that it's taked about how MW called her pimp-boyfriend and told him she was headed out to the gas station and would call him when she got back. And I am guessing that MW mother new that information from talking to him her self and doing the missing person reoport.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0Bd7QJcdWk"]Americas Serial Killer True Stories P2 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[giagreen]

I've given up for now in trying to understand what the real facts are in this case. I came into this far too late and what I'm finding is muddled facts combined with a lot of rumors misconstrued as truths.

I again am going to ask for MSM links or a general direction that has the specific cases people are asking me to give an opinion about. I had no idea that there are 2 separate cases (?). I thought all the people we are speaking about were the LISK's doing. Again, I'm highly confused at no fault of anyone. I do not think it's beneficial for me to read the threads already here because it's just going to confuse me farther and sway my opinions. I rather just give a first impression type thing.

I hear yea!!! I jumped into this about 6 months ago and have read and read everything I could and can on it. Watched everything on this. And I have also read threw each thread regarding the GB4. It is so confusing but once you do read it all and find out as much as you can it gets easyer. This is a very complex case IMO

 

[AstroKitty]

I hear yea!!! I jumped into this about 6 months ago and have read and read everything I could and can on it. Watched everything on this. And I have also read threw each thread regarding the GB4. It is so confusing but once you do read it all and find out as much as you can it gets easyer. This is a very complex case IMO

Is the GB4 different than the LISK? There's far too many abv things going on here.

 

[Gerontion]

Is the GB4 different than the LISK? There's far too many abv things going on here.

When you boil it down, the most concrete scenario is of the four Craiglist women found in a common dumping site off of the Long Island Expressway. These are the GB4. Their discovery led to talk of a serial killer on Long Island. The LISK. I won't tell you the circumstances that led to the discovery of the GB4, or the other discoveries on Long Island that are "possibly" related to the GB4. The GB4 are Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelmy, Amber Lynn Costello and Maureen Brainard Barnes. Each of these victims has their own thread in this forum. There you will find all that is known about the circumstances of each, including many links to MSM. It is not really for me to say, but your mission, should you accept it, would be to study those four threads and try to confine yourself to the GB4/LISK.
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