PR interview

[rashomon]

The only things I remember seeing about the red turtleneck was PR saying in an interview that she had argued with JBR over wearing it, with PR wanting her to match the red shirt/ black velvet pants she was wearing herself, and JBR refusing. She agreed to the black pants but insisted on the white sequined shirt. Now remember this is PR saying JBR wore the white shirt she was found in to the White's. ST says she did indeed wear the red shirt, and though the photos have never been made public, ST saw them, so that is why he says that. The red turtle neck was found soaking in a sink outside JBR's room. This is not to be confused with the red JUMPSUIT which was seen on an ironing board, and which PR mentions as a "little Christmas thing" JBR wore to perform at a Mall with some of her "pagaent girls".
If she was indeed wearing the red shirt at the White's, obviously PR said she wore the white one to back up her statement that JBR was put to bed still asleep and PR only removed her black pants and pulled on the long johns.

DeeDee, where did Steve Thomas say that?
ST was in a chat room once where he commented on what JonBenet had been wearing to the Whites' party, I'm not quite sure but it I think he said it was the white shirt in which she was found. I forgot to save the link, but if anyone can find it, TIA for posting it here.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

A scarf is a possibility, but why advertise it at her funeral?

Yes I reckon the red-jumpsuit played a role, it may have formed some prior staging, or acted as an excuse to wash something else out?

.

indeed,why,but I thought there were some good points made here:
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=280446

 

[JMO8778]

DeeDee, where did Steve Thomas say that?
ST was in a chat room once where he commented on what JonBenet had been wearing to the Whites' party, I'm not quite sure but it I think he said it was the white shirt in which she was found. I forgot to save the link, but if anyone can find it, TIA for posting it here.

he did indeed,he tesitified on that too..he said he came to believe she wore the red shirt to bed,as Patsy originally stated,and that it was stripped off when it got wet.he did not say she definitely wore it to bed or that it was def. wet..he presented it as his own theory.
NOW,some of the IDI's will tell you that Thomas twisted the evidence to fit his own personal theory,he didn't,and I do not believe that for one lone second.Those are just more lies coming from them.If you are out there and reading this then please go back to the transcripts and prove it,then post it here where we can all read it.thx.If I can't say that here then pls delete,thx.
What I get out of Thomas's book is that there is more evidence,esp. on JR,that he doesn't want to reveal,and for good reason,IMO.(and shame on the liars,this man worked very hard for justice for JB,and as far as what they say about him,they don't even believe that's true,and my feeling on a lot of them is that they just won't admit they were wrong about the IDI theory).JMO.

 

[Toltec]

Nehemiah,

Yes maybe JonBenet was placed into bed wearing the turtleneck to hide her neck abrasions?


.

The strangulation occured AFTER she was rendered unconcious from the blow to the head. I believe the strangulation was staging because no defensive wounds were found on JonBenet's body. The cord placed on her neck was almost a perfect circumference...and the second ponytail was placed on her to move her hair out of the way when the cord was tied.

The red jumpsuit played no part in the murder...it was a jumpsuit worn by all the Amerikids at the mall performance.

The black fibers were not a match to Johns shirt...it was only a bluff by authorities to get John's reaction. An arrest would have been made if Johns shirt fibers were on JonBenet's genitalia.

 

[UKGuy]

The strangulation occured AFTER she was rendered unconcious from the blow to the head. I believe the strangulation was staging because no defensive wounds were found on JonBenet's body. The cord placed on her neck was almost a perfect circumference...and the second ponytail was placed on her to move her hair out of the way when the cord was tied.

The red jumpsuit played no part in the murder...it was a jumpsuit worn by all the Amerikids at the mall performance.

The black fibers were not a match to Johns shirt...it was only a bluff by authorities to get John's reaction. An arrest would have been made if Johns shirt fibers were on JonBenet's genitalia.

Toltec,

JonBenet has two areas reflecting strangulation, one is the site of the circumferential furrow, and the other lies beneath this, a non-circumferential set of abrasions, that are indicative of a manual strangulation.

If JonBenet only displayed the upper circumferential furrow then your theory would be consistent with the presenting forensic evidence, currently it is not.

and the second ponytail was placed on her to move her hair out of the way when the cord was tied.

2nd ponytail why is that relevant, other parts of her hair were embedded into the knotting on the garrote which I accept was likely staging? The garrote was probably applied while JonBenet lay face down, then tightened, but those abrasions on the front of her neck were not inflicted at this point?

Anyway back to the strangulation, so after JonBenet being whacked on the head, knocking her unconscious, there were patently two attempts at strangling JonBenet.

I assume the Ligature strangulation mentioned in the autopsy:

FINAL DIAGNOSIS:
I. Ligature strangulation
A. Circumferential ligature with associated ligature furrow
of neck
B. Abrasions and petechial hemorrhages, neck
C. Petechial hemorrhages, conjunctival surfaces of eyes and
skin of face

refers to the upper furrow?

I reckon the lower abrasions have been glossed over for some reason?

I believe the strangulation was staging because no defensive wounds were found on JonBenet's body.

This is entirely possible, but she did have numerous abrasions on her body and face, some yet to be accounted for e.g. those speculated to be stun-gun markings.

The black fibers were not a match to Johns shirt...it was only a bluff by authorities to get John's reaction. An arrest would have been made if Johns shirt fibers were on JonBenet's genitalia.

Quite possibly but I have never seen any official retraction that links the fibers on Johns Israeli shirt to those on JonBenet?


.

 

[Tober]

ST was in a chat room once where he commented on what JonBenet had been wearing to the Whites' party, I'm not quite sure but it I think he said it was the white shirt in which she was found.

http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/stchat.html

 

[UKGuy]

http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/stchat.html

Tober,

And he knows JonBenet was wearing the White Gap Top since he analysed all the photos taken at the White's party, discovering that Patsy had worn the same clothes the following day!


.

 

[Ames]

JMO8778,

JonBenet most likely never made it to bed, those lower neck abrasions on her neck are consistent with some kind of manual strangulation using a shirt collar to act as a ligature.

I agree.

 

[rashomon]

The strangulation occured AFTER she was rendered unconcious from the blow to the head. I believe the strangulation was staging because no defensive wounds were found on JonBenet's body. The cord placed on her neck was almost a perfect circumference...and the second ponytail was placed on her to move her hair out of the way when the cord was tied.

The red jumpsuit played no part in the murder...it was a jumpsuit worn by all the Amerikids at the mall performance.

The black fibers were not a match to Johns shirt...it was only a bluff by authorities to get John's reaction. An arrest would have been made if Johns shirt fibers were on JonBenet's genitalia.

Almost a year had passed before the Ramseys finally turned in their clothing.
There is no reason to believe that respected lawyers like Levin, Kane and Morrissey lied to John about the fiber evidence against him. For unlike the police, lawyers are not allowed to lie in these interviews. Extensive discussion has been held about this topic on the JBR forums.
Lawyer Levin himself had been at the CBI lab to contact lab techs about the results.
If Lin Wood had thought Levin made it up, I think he would have told him this. But imo Wood's reaction shows that he knew they had possibly incriminating evidence against his client, which is why he prevented John Ramsey from answering Levin's question, while at the same time going on a tirade about the (un)reliability of fiber evidence in general. Classic evasion tactic imo. Wood also wanted to see what exactly the lab report said. But Levin was under no obligation to turn the lab report over to John's lawyer.

 

[rashomon]

http://jfjbr.tripod.com/truth/stchat.html

Thanks so much Tober for providing the link to the chat. So S. Thomas (who has seen the pictures which so far have not been released ot the public) said verbatim that JonBenet had worn the white gap top to the Whites' party,and not the red turtleneck.

 

[JMO8778]

The red jumpsuit played no part in the murder...it was a jumpsuit worn by all the Amerikids at the mall performance.

she said she washed it out for some reason...

The black fibers were not a match to Johns shirt...it was only a bluff by authorities to get John's reaction. An arrest would have been made if Johns shirt fibers were on JonBenet's genitalia.

guess again.

 

[JMO8778]

I reckon the lower abrasions have been glossed over for some reason?





.

good point,it seems there should be more about the marks on her neck.

 

[DeeDee249]

Thanks so much Tober for providing the link to the chat. So S. Thomas (who has seen the pictures which so far have not been released ot the public) said verbatim that JonBenet had worn the white gap top to the Whites' party,andnnot the red turtleneck.

Thanks for that link- it's one interview I had not read, and it clears the matter up for me. All the more for believing she never went to bed at all that night.

 

[calicocat]

The other day I read in one of the threads, that Patsy had a panic attack and compared it to being strangled. I believe it was a criminal psychologist who commented that parents invloved in the murder of their children, usually drop hints afterward, connecting them to the crime. Now I just read an article where Patsy says the following to Geraldo:

"I wish they would find the killer. On the other hand, it frightens me to think that I may actually know the person."

She goes on to suggest who the killer might be, then says:

"Or maybe it was a University of Colorado student who saw JonBenet riding her bike around the neighborhood."

I know it's all speculation, but if the psychologist is right, she could be trying to say it was ________________. Read the following link:

http://hellpainter.tripod.com/jbr/patsygeraldo.htm

I also remember reading about a dog leash. Patsy mentioned a dog leash when describing how it felt to be strangled. I think the cleaning lady said Patsy had put one on JonBenet after she had a wetting accident, humiliating her. I wonder if a dog leash could have been placed on JonBenet Christmas night, accidentally strangling her, and the staging went on from there.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec,

JonBenet has two areas reflecting strangulation, one is the site of the circumferential furrow, and the other lies beneath this, a non-circumferential set of abrasions, that are indicative of a manual strangulation.

If JonBenet only displayed the upper circumferential furrow then your theory would be consistent with the presenting forensic evidence, currently it is not.

Patsy grabs JonBenet by her red turtleneck. She then hits her over the head....the ligature strangulation does occur after she is rendered unconcious.


2nd ponytail why is that relevant, other parts of her hair were embedded into the knotting on the garrote which I accept was likely staging? The garrote was probably applied while JonBenet lay face down, then tightened, but those abrasions on the front of her neck were not inflicted at this point?

Ask any mother why it is relevant. Patsy placed the ponytail so as not to hurt her daughter....Patsy was probably in an emotional state by then so nothing made sense.

Anyway back to the strangulation, so after JonBenet being whacked on the head, knocking her unconscious, there were patently two attempts at strangling JonBenet.

I assume the Ligature strangulation mentioned in the autopsy:

refers to the upper furrow?

Yes it does.

I reckon the lower abrasions have been glossed over for some reason?

Any medical examiner looking at the autopsy photos can explain those abrasions.



This is entirely possible, but she did have numerous abrasions on her body and face, some yet to be accounted for e.g. those speculated to be stun-gun markings.

NO STUN GUN WAS USED.


Quite possibly but I have never seen any official retraction that links the fibers on Johns Israeli shirt to those on JonBenet?

Police can use deception and that was one of the statements thrown at John to get his reaction.

There is no simple answer to what the sequence of events were but my belief is that there was a tussle with Patsy and a defiant JonBenet that lead to her death.

 

[JMO8778]

that wasn't police deception about his shirt fibers,that was asked by an attorney and they cannot lie.LE can but they can't.JR stated in advance that he was not going to answer any questions about that,as his attorney comments on that evidence,and then stated 'and I understand you are not going to answer those questions'.and that was that.

 

[UKGuy]

Toltec,

JonBenet has two areas reflecting strangulation, one is the site of the circumferential furrow, and the other lies beneath this, a non-circumferential set of abrasions, that are indicative of a manual strangulation.

If JonBenet only displayed the upper circumferential furrow then your theory would be consistent with the presenting forensic evidence, currently it is not.

Patsy grabs JonBenet by her red turtleneck. She then hits her over the head....the ligature strangulation does occur after she is rendered unconcious.


2nd ponytail why is that relevant, other parts of her hair were embedded into the knotting on the garrote which I accept was likely staging? The garrote was probably applied while JonBenet lay face down, then tightened, but those abrasions on the front of her neck were not inflicted at this point?

Ask any mother why it is relevant. Patsy placed the ponytail so as not to hurt her daughter....Patsy was probably in an emotional state by then so nothing made sense.

Anyway back to the strangulation, so after JonBenet being whacked on the head, knocking her unconscious, there were patently two attempts at strangling JonBenet.

I assume the Ligature strangulation mentioned in the autopsy:

refers to the upper furrow?

Yes it does.

I reckon the lower abrasions have been glossed over for some reason?

Any medical examiner looking at the autopsy photos can explain those abrasions.



This is entirely possible, but she did have numerous abrasions on her body and face, some yet to be accounted for e.g. those speculated to be stun-gun markings.

NO STUN GUN WAS USED.


Quite possibly but I have never seen any official retraction that links the fibers on Johns Israeli shirt to those on JonBenet?

Police can use deception and that was one of the statements thrown at John to get his reaction.

There is no simple answer to what the sequence of events were but my belief is that there was a tussle with Patsy and a defiant JonBenet that lead to her death.

Toltec,

Ask any mother why it is relevant. Patsy placed the ponytail so as not to hurt her daughter....Patsy was probably in an emotional state by then so nothing made sense.

I guess you must be humoring me, Patsy does not want to hurt her daughter, yikes!

Any medical examiner looking at the autopsy photos can explain those abrasions.

The point being they have to date not been explained by anyone?

NO STUN GUN WAS USED.

Sure, but those abrasions still exist, stun gun or not!

Police can use deception and that was one of the statements thrown at John to get his reaction.

Sure but was it not an attorney who stated the fibers matched those from his woolen Israeli shirt?

There is no simple answer to what the sequence of events were but my belief is that there was a tussle with Patsy and a defiant JonBenet that lead to her death.

You may be correct here, so why the hidden sexual injury, why asphyxiate her, why deny her medical assistance, and the evidence of prior sexual abuse, where does all this fit into an unintentional death?


.

 

[Ames]

I know,and I've only seen pics where that part's been cut out,does anybody know if the full photo can be found somewhere online,or is that evidence being held back? I remember him saying she was holding tightly onto JB's arm Christmas morning in the photne has to wonder why a video of that morning likely disappeared as well.
it sounds like it has evidence on it,like where the collar was stretched and twisted when she was manually strangled..which is in one of the reports in ST's book.bc it is thought the abrasions were left at the time she was strangled with the shirt collar.

Hey,
The picture that you are talking about is posted at FFJ, I made an entire thread about it, asking if anyone could find it for me...LOL ....it looks like this one has been cropped too, but you can still see Patsy's hand gripping JB's upper arm. Its post #3

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?p=148726#post148726

 

[DeeDee249]

One interesting thing I noticed from that picture just now- JBR seems to be wearing a gold chain around her neck. It looks like the gold chain and cross found on her body wound up into the garrotte. I recall reading someone asklng whether anyone knew if JBR slept with her jewelry on. I guess we know, because it isn't likely she'd put the cross and chain on just after getting up while still in pajamas and uncombed hair.
I posted I personally wouldn't let a child sleep in a necklace or chain of any kind, even if she fell asleep wearing one. The bracelet or ring would be OK because they aren't really dangerous to a sleeping child, but a necklace, even if there was no danger, would be more likely to break if worn while sleeping.
So from this I can infer that her wearing the gold cross & chain when found wasn't part of the staging- she apparently had gone to bed wearing them before. (at least the night before). This probably goes for the bracelet and ring as well. Not part of staging, just something she did.
Of course there is the possibility that JBR opened the gift (the cross & chain WAS a gift, I think, that year) and put it on right away. But PR mentioned the ID bracelet as being a gift from Aunt P that JBR was allowed to open early so she could wear it to the party. (not sure which party- the White's or the R party on the 23rd).

 

[JMO8778]

AMES,thanks so much !!!