midwest mama
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2012
- Messages
- 1,303
- Reaction score
- 46
Fascinating post, DeDee. I will respectfully try to respond by inserting comments and snipping part of your original post.
LE reported smelling urine on her beauty/beast sheets, which had to have been changed after LHP changed them into another set on Dec. 23rd.
The cord bindings looked as if they were applied while she was wearing the white/star shirt from the way they looked around the sleeves of the shirt. And stains on the shirt would have been in keeping with other other fluids found on her body above the neck at autopsy, which lead me to believe she was wearing the shirt when the head blow occurred.
Is is possible that enough fibers from Patsy's sweater jacket could have been transferred to JB's hair and clothing during the time she might have had to get JB ready for the party? Or even during the party? And as the cord was wielded around JB, could the fibers have moved through secondary transfer onto every item mentioned below, especially if the paintbrush was broken after it was tied into the cord and the extra piece placed into the paint tray? I don't know.
Was this item specified anywhere?
Yes, I believe it highly probable she was somehow restrained for a good amount of what happened to her.
If the murder was determined to be a must, after being propelled by the events involved in the 911 call on Dec. 23, then the killer had a short amount of time to plan and execute the child's death. Not impossible.
I cannot agree. If someone was hired, they were admitted into the home making it unnecessary to have a forced entry. There was the rumor of a "secret Santa" visit, with JR making a public statement about JB's trust and love of Santa. "His" so-called Santa suit was taken into evidence. Could it have been worn by someone easily let in and out of the house?
As much as we want to dispel the unidentified tDNA as being meaningless, it could also be meaningful. After all, it's the only thing that helps keep the IDI theory somewhat afloat.
I believe it possible there was an attempt made by the JB's killer to put her body into the Samsonite to be taken out of the house later. I think the killer decided it wasn't going to work and that's what set the redressing and wrapping of her body into the white blanket into motion.
snipped....
How do you know it came with a black belt? The photo of her outfit laid out on the bed also shows a long multi-colored item laid among the items...kind of fuzzy and narrow. Could it have been used as a tie belt or a scarf she might have worn with the outfit. I have always been puzzled by that item.
snipped.....
I believe it's possible that the Dr. Suess was part of something that happened the night of the 23rd Christmas party, and tucked into the suitcase for some reason. I know which book you are talking about, having posted about it on the thread "The Suitcase - Duvet, Sham, etc..." in my post #119. I can't see how that suitcase and it's contents are NOT connected to this crime somehow.
WARNING: graphic content
Didn't know about the girl, feces and hay. Yuck.
snipped......
LHP said she put clean bedsheets on JB's bed the 23rd and they were not the Beauty/Beast sheets. So, if JB had worn the Barbie gown and bloodied it and the pillowcase sometime during the night of the 23rd, the sheets were changed off just prior to all of that happening during the night. Did Patsy come in to potty her at midnight and discover that she needed the sheets changed off? If so, she would have had to change her out of wet bedclothes most likely also, which means the Barbie gown could have gone on at the same time as the Beauty/Beast sheets. The bloody stuff could have then happened any time during the night or into the next day as Christmas eve approached.
snipped....
above BBM. s-b-t-c- Eerie or a code or ???????
My apologies, in advance, for the length of this post. It just would not be the same all chopped into various posts on multiple threads. Besides, this post and this thread is about premeditation. *The graphic content is clearly marked in case anyone wishes to skip that small portion.
snipped,.....
Or the strike against her head could have occurred while she was lying on her bed, maybe while she slept. If so, her bladder would have released onto the bed sheets. But since she was still alive, her body functions have slowed, causing blood carrying oxygen to supply the most vital organs, thus, her kidneys continued to function. She lived another hour or so after her critical head injury occurred which is enough time for the bladder to accumulate urine for output.
LE reported smelling urine on her beauty/beast sheets, which had to have been changed after LHP changed them into another set on Dec. 23rd.
Some of the cord bindings were most likely applied while on her bed since the cords' fibers were vacuumed from them.
The cord bindings looked as if they were applied while she was wearing the white/star shirt from the way they looked around the sleeves of the shirt. And stains on the shirt would have been in keeping with other other fluids found on her body above the neck at autopsy, which lead me to believe she was wearing the shirt when the head blow occurred.
Patsy's Essential sweater jacket fibers are tied into the knot, so whether or not Patsy tied the knots, her sweater jacket was nearby the white cord for any transfer to occur in the places that they are located, including but not limited to her paint tote where one part the broken paint brush is found.
The killer either wore the Essential sweater or toted Patsy's sweater jacket to the basement along with JonBenet.
Is is possible that enough fibers from Patsy's sweater jacket could have been transferred to JB's hair and clothing during the time she might have had to get JB ready for the party? Or even during the party? And as the cord was wielded around JB, could the fibers have moved through secondary transfer onto every item mentioned below, especially if the paintbrush was broken after it was tied into the cord and the extra piece placed into the paint tray? I don't know.
August 2000 Patsy Ramsey Atlanta Interview - from a candyrose:
0200
3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
6 from her jacket were found in the paint
7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
11 the question is, can she explain to us how
12 those fibers appeared in those places that
13 are associated with her daughter's death.
There are definitely brown fibers belonging to an item involved in the crime.
snipped.......
None of the brown cotton fibers were sourced along with the pink and purple fibers located on adhesive side of the tape.
While a cloth gag would prevent screams from being heard, wouldn't it leave fibers in or around her mouth that would later appear on the tape? Would a silk scarf or a brown cloth item leave telltale fibers if she had been gagged with the scarf or cloth across her mouth, between her lips, that is tied lightly in the back, before the tape was applied? IOW, transferring unsourced brown fibers onto the tape.
There was one artifact stuck to her tongue.
Was this item specified anywhere?
If JonBenet was blindfolded with a mask or scarf and/or gagged with a silk scarf or a piece of brown cotton cloth then that places JBR in a highly vulnerable position.
Add the ligatures and the killer has all but total control over this child to be fatally struck on the head. The killer had an hour during which time she could be poked, prodded, raped and then strangled.
Yes, I believe it highly probable she was somehow restrained for a good amount of what happened to her.
If the murder was determined to be a must, after being propelled by the events involved in the 911 call on Dec. 23, then the killer had a short amount of time to plan and execute the child's death. Not impossible.
If a "hit man" was hired for the dastardly deed, it was in short order. Never happened. Evidence does not support a "hit man" or hired killer.
I cannot agree. If someone was hired, they were admitted into the home making it unnecessary to have a forced entry. There was the rumor of a "secret Santa" visit, with JR making a public statement about JB's trust and love of Santa. "His" so-called Santa suit was taken into evidence. Could it have been worn by someone easily let in and out of the house?
As much as we want to dispel the unidentified tDNA as being meaningless, it could also be meaningful. After all, it's the only thing that helps keep the IDI theory somewhat afloat.
Oh, but there is that pesky duvet and sham in the blue suitcase that must be accounted for with the matching fibers found on her body, her vagina, the tape and the white blanket.
JAR's dried semen on the blue duvet and sham can be ruled out of the equation. The latest possible time that the suitcase arrived at the Ramsey home, with the duvet and sham inside stained with JAR's DNA, was December 19 when JAR flew to GA.
Therefore, the Samsonite was in the home on Dec. 23, the same evening of the R Christmas party. This is the evening that I believe JonBenet wore her pink Barbie nightgown to bed that was later found with red stains on it. And, to be fair, BR and Patsy's tDNA were located somewhere on the pink gown.
I believe it possible there was an attempt made by the JB's killer to put her body into the Samsonite to be taken out of the house later. I think the killer decided it wasn't going to work and that's what set the redressing and wrapping of her body into the white blanket into motion.
snipped....
By 4:30pm, we know she was wearing the white Gap shirt, black velvet pants and vest with, iirc, little black boots trimmed with [faux] animal fur that zipped in the front.
The black velvet Gap outfit came with a black belt; however, I am not sure it was used in the commission of the crime or even if she wore the black velvet belt to the White's home.
How do you know it came with a black belt? The photo of her outfit laid out on the bed also shows a long multi-colored item laid among the items...kind of fuzzy and narrow. Could it have been used as a tie belt or a scarf she might have worn with the outfit. I have always been puzzled by that item.
snipped.....
Also, regarding the date of Dec. 23, the date of the R Christmas party and first 911 call, we have never been privy to learning when nor how the Dr Seuss book came to be placed inside the 7lb Samsonite that belonged to JAR via Lucinda.
I have my doubts the book was placed inside by JAR. I think JAR was floored to learn the title of the adult's book. But that was alright, for everyone and anyone involved, since his daddy hired an attorney for him, his sister, Melinda, and his mom, Lucinda.
No. JAR would not have to reveal the actual title of the book nor would he, just as importantly, be required to answer questions about the contents found inside his mom's Samsonite that contain fibers directly related to the murder. JAR wanted the murderer of his 6yo half-sister JonBenet to be forgiven.
I believe it's possible that the Dr. Suess was part of something that happened the night of the 23rd Christmas party, and tucked into the suitcase for some reason. I know which book you are talking about, having posted about it on the thread "The Suitcase - Duvet, Sham, etc..." in my post #119. I can't see how that suitcase and it's contents are NOT connected to this crime somehow.
WARNING: graphic content
Dr. Suess books are innocent and fun to read, silently or aloud. They are entertaining. His work is legendary. His books are classics. Dr. Suess only wrote children's books except that for the one, and only one, that he wrote with nude drawings in 1939 which was meant strictly for adults.
Having seen these nude drawings online, they do not necessarily fall into the category as pornographic in nature. They do, however, promote the idea that total nudity is appropriate, natural, preferred.
One particular page has a drawing of a squatting nude girl who is depositing her feces onto the pile of hay outside of a barn. With the horses looking on.
The second and last printing of the adult Dr. Seuss book with nude drawings was in 1989, thus, making it fairly rare 7 years later in 1996 since the sales were not successful.
I wonder if an adult bookstore in Denver would have sold such a novelty item.
IIRC, no one in Denver publically came forward with having recognized JR as a patron of an adult bookstore but did LE check in other cities, such as Tucson, where JR conducted some of his rumored 1994-95 extramarital pleasure with KB? Incidentally, KB was petite at 5' and 92 pounds at the time. She said JR specifically requested this information before meeting with her. IIRC, she was a blonde.
GRAPHIC CONTENT ENDS
Didn't know about the girl, feces and hay. Yuck.
snipped......
The evidence tells me that if JBR wore the pink Barbie nightgown with the red stains on it during the night of Dec. 23 then that is likely the same time her pillowcase was stained with red fluid.
LHP said she put clean bedsheets on JB's bed the 23rd and they were not the Beauty/Beast sheets. So, if JB had worn the Barbie gown and bloodied it and the pillowcase sometime during the night of the 23rd, the sheets were changed off just prior to all of that happening during the night. Did Patsy come in to potty her at midnight and discover that she needed the sheets changed off? If so, she would have had to change her out of wet bedclothes most likely also, which means the Barbie gown could have gone on at the same time as the Beauty/Beast sheets. The bloody stuff could have then happened any time during the night or into the next day as Christmas eve approached.
snipped....
JonBenet was buried with a scarf, a bracelet, a tiara and a cat.
above BBM. s-b-t-c- Eerie or a code or ???????