premeditation

[Wolfpack Fan]

Skim the following articles until you see something about 25-caliber guns. Then tell me that one of Travis's friends who knew about guns would have advised him to buy a 25 for protection.

http://craigsmithcolumns.homestead.com/choosingahandgun.html

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=4972

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/05/21/selecting-a-defensive-pistol-caliber/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/clark-d4.html

http://womenshooters.com/wfn/largecal.html

http://www.sierrafirearms.com/whatgun.htm

http://www.craigcentral.com/handguns.asp

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080922235206AADSPQz

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2011/06/03/taurus-get-off-me-gun/

http://www.handgunclub.com/hca/2010/05/01/small-caliber-pistols/#25ACP

http://blog.nugun.org/2011/01/31/things-to-consider-on-a-first-handgun-purchase/

Travis never owned a gun! Jodi used the one that she stole from her grandfather!

 

[MrsPC]

a premeditation list:

• Stealing her grandpa's gun
• renting a non-descript colored car at a rental agency some 90 mi away from her home
• borrowing $ for the trip
• borrowing 2 gas cans & purchasing another gas can so she didn't have to stop for gas in AZ
• Dying her blonde hair dark brown
• Removing and/or turning her license plates upside down
• Turning her cellphone off before she crosses into AZ
• Lying repeatedly about all of her actions both before & after

I think it's crucial for JM to hammer on the premeditation during closing

 

[ADoyle]

I also think the murder was premeditated, and that Juan should mention it during the closing arguments. She stole her grandpa's gun, and brought a knife with the intent to kill Travis when she found out he was planning on marrying someone else.

 

[redbud]

1. Jodi was tied to the scene of the robbery because she lived there.

I believe it was because there was her blood mixed in with Travis's and they also found hairs with the follicles still attached meaning they were new. Old hairs wouldn't still have the follicles attached.

I think to believe this wasn't premeditated you would have to believe that Travis owned a gun which he kept unload with the safety off and didn't tell his roommates. You have to throw out the timing of evil text/stolen gun/killing. You would also have to believe Jodi ran through the closet and was able to grab off the shelf with Travis running through after her without disturbing a single thing. There is also a bench in the middle of the closet that was not moved. With two people running through the small closet they managed not to nudge it. There are a lot of reasons but I just meant in reference to the gun.

Just because Travis fought harder for his life than JA imagined doesn't mean it wasn't premeditated.

 

[Nova]

Looking for people's thoughts on the proposition that the Defendant did not demonstrate premeditation due to the extended period of time she spent with the vic, including their activities, prior to the murder. Here, we know the Defendant spent the entire day with the vic. She didn't walk in and kill him in the doorway. Instead, she allowed him to have sex with her, they took a nap, layed around, even allowed him to take pictures of her in compromising positions.

If she went there with a premeditated and specific intent to kill, wouldn't the act have come much sooner rather than later? Spending 12 hours with your intended victim, taking pictures, being intimate, etc. could seem far beyond the logical point she should/could have emotionally gone, if murder was the sole reason for her visit. Can we say that this lady is actually that much of a psychopath, a black widow of the highest form, pleasuring herself for hours then killing her mate? Is that really this woman?

Looking for your thoughts on whether the 12 hours of leisure, sex, and pictures spent with the vic actually "kills" the State's premeditation theory. [Excuse the pun] Clearly, a juror could find her not "evil" enough to follow the State down this particular theoretical path due to the substantial period of time she spent with the vic prior to the homicide. I'm on the fence, but would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks from the "newbie"!!

I haven't read the entire thread, so this may have been answered. But "premeditation" doesn't require that Jody have made her final decision before she left Yreka.

She may well have thought, "Okay, I'm going to win him back and he'll take me to Mexico instead of that other girl. But if it doesn't work, he's a goner! So I'll bring my parents' gun with me and rent a car to cover my tracks so nobody knows I was in Mesa."

Premeditation can be formed in an instant. So the moment when Travis said, "No, Jody, I'm not changing my plans" and Jody thought, "Travis, you're not going anywhere without me" (assuming that's the way it happened) was enough to establish premeditation.

 

[SassyMom]

(I'm omitting hair color till that's better confirmed.)

I'm big on the hair color, Squirrel, because the owner of the car rental location stated uniquivocally that she was blonde on the 2nd, and the pictures in Travis' camera show she is a brunette on the day of the murder two days later.

 

[getReal]

She could have planned to murder him and in the process of Travis fighting for his life, it went from just a plan to kill to a "blind frenzy" b/c he wouldn't die.

Example but true story: I hate bugs, I hate them :furious: and in the mist of killing them I always go from fear of the bug to straight bug murderer once I know I have the upper hand (Yes, that is how bad it is for me. Its as if I'm fighting for my life). I planned to kill the spider with one pop of the shoe, when that sucker moved after, I beat that thing till it wouldn't be recognized as a spider.

I also agree with others that have said if it was Travis' gun why get rid of it. She had to get rid of the gun for some reason and the only logical explanation is that gun traces back to her in some way.

RSBM From reading about a 25-caliber I do not think Travis would have chose that as his gun. He liked nice things. You can tell that by his house and the items inside. I have a feeling that he was that way even with his "toys". I agree he would have asked his friends which gun to get.

:floorlaugh: I love that bug analogy! :rocker:

BTW, it works either way, but if you MEANT "in the MIST of killing" then you are in a fog, and "in the MIDST of killing" you are in the middle of the dastardly deed.

 

[Lorelilly]

She could have planned to murder him and in the process of Travis fighting for his life, it went from just a plan to kill to a "blind frenzy" b/c he wouldn't die.

Example but true story: I hate bugs, I hate them :furious: and in the mist of killing them I always go from fear of the bug to straight bug murderer once I know I have the upper hand (Yes, that is how bad it is for me. Its as if I'm fighting for my life). I planned to kill the spider with one pop of the shoe, when that sucker moved after, I beat that thing till it wouldn't be recognized as a spider.

I also agree with others that have said if it was Travis' gun why get rid of it. She had to get rid of the gun for some reason and the only logical explanation is that gun traces back to her in some way.





RSBM From reading about a 25-caliber I do not think Travis would have chose that as his gun. He liked nice things. You can tell that by his house and the items inside. I have a feeling that he was that way even with his "toys". I agree he would have asked his friends which gun to get.

Thanks, I needed a laugh on this wet and cloudy Monday :floorlaugh:

 

[Frigga]

I guess I should have been more specific, my comment was in reference to the following statement:



I think she may have brought the knife with her too, along with her grandpa's stolen gun, on her road trip to Murder Travis...


Sorry about that, I hope this makes more sense now...

She HAS to say the knife belonged to Travis and the only way that DNA from said knife would not be retrievable would be the dishwasher scenario. If she brought the knife, then of course- premeditation.

She is damn lucky Travis had decomposed the amount of time he had or the ME would have been much more precise as to the knife/weapon/wounds. She was also pretty lucky that there actually was a knife in the dishwasher.

Fortunately for the public at large her luck has just about run out. Time to pay the piper little JodiAnn.

 

[Breezy1]

Once we get there, mentally, those facts breathe new meaning and purpose into her actions/cover up, after the fact. Scienter is key here. The only thing the jury has to bring themselves to swallow is the fact that she was able to relish her victim for 12 hours prior to doing what she went there to do. The overkill of the vic works well with this black widow theory.

Actually, theres no evidence to suggest she spent 12 hours with him. I wish the roommates were there to testify. No one saw the rental car in the driveway like she claimed it was parked. And no proof she actually got there at 4AM and Travis knew about it. For all we know she spied on the house until the roommates left. Their statements directly contradict her story about falling asleep with him and waking up later the next day. The roommates saw Travis @ 1130 in the morning, and he had told them he only got 45 minutes of sleep that night in the police report. Not consistent with what Jodi testified to.

 

[mhopkins]

Some people do not think the killing was premediated because Jodi and Travis had sex. Some sk why not kill him right away instead of spending so much time together.

First, we know a roommate was home in the morning so she could not kill him as soon as she arrived.

Second, she needed him a vunerable position so having sex was part of her plan because she knew afterwards he would take a shower, which is exactly where she wanted to get him. It is possible he did not take a shower immediately after sex. I think she even made a comment in her testimony when asked if Travis took a shower after they had sex that "it was not that soon after." Almost as if she was annoyed. She said they went downstairs for awhile then went into the office. I think Jodi expected him to take a shower immediately after sex and when he did not she knew time was ticking away and had to find another way to get him in the shower. This may be when she used the photoshoot excuse.

Three things keep bothering me: (1) Did she really arrive at 4 a.m. or did she lurk around until the roommate left that morning? Travis never mentioned to the roommate that Jodi was there and the roommate never mentioned seeing her car in the driveway. (2) Where were Jodi and Travis when the roommate came back home between 3 and 4? (3) How was she able to keep all the blood contained to just the hallway and bathroom. She must have been a bloody mess! Did she put down towels or blankets to walk on in the bedroom?

 

[Labrahma]

The thing that bothers me is the gun. Why did she steal a gun from her own grandparents and then end up stabbing him instead?? This has been bugging me, especially as her victim was stronger and could have potentially over powered her.

Then it occurred to me. I think she planned to shoot him and thought better of it. She had a long time to think on her way to Mesa and she could have thought "hmmm-- if I shoot him there's circumstantial evidence that ties me directly to the scene and reeks of premeditation ." At this point she decided to stab him in the shower. What she didn't anticipate is that he would make so much noise going down that she panicked and grabbed the gun to finish him off. Anyone else have any other thoughts?

 

[wasnt_me]

They may have been recorded before she hatched her plan to kill him. Maybe before her stalking behavior escalated to violence.

Your post made me think. I think you should say before her stalking behavior escalated to murder. We don't know if she'd been violent with Travis before, but he never told anyone. That was just a thought out of the blue I had while reading your post.:seeya:

 

[wasnt_me]

Some people do not think the killing was premediated because Jodi and Travis had sex. Some sk why not kill him right away instead of spending so much time together.

First, we know a roommate was home in the morning so she could not kill him as soon as she arrived.

Second, she needed him a vunerable position so having sex was part of her plan because she knew afterwards he would take a shower, which is exactly where she wanted to get him. It is possible he did not take a shower immediately after sex. I think she even made a comment in her testimony when asked if Travis took a shower after they had sex that "it was not that soon after." Almost as if she was annoyed. She said they went downstairs for awhile then went into the office. I think Jodi expected him to take a shower immediately after sex and when he did not she knew time was ticking away and had to find another way to get him in the shower. This may be when she used the photoshoot excuse.

Three things keep bothering me: (1) Did she really arrive at 4 a.m. or did she lurk around until the roommate left that morning? Travis never mentioned to the roommate that Jodi was there and the roommate never mentioned seeing her car in the driveway. (2) Where were Jodi and Travis when the roommate came back home between 3 and 4? (3) How was she able to keep all the blood contained to just the hallway and bathroom. She must have been a bloody mess! Did she put down towels or blankets to walk on in the bedroom?

My guesses are as good as yours, but there they are about the things that puzzle you:

1. It's possible that when she arrived, she suggested to Travis that she park around the corner--as to continue their "secret."
2. The roommates didn't know Travis was dead for 5 days. It's possible that Jodi and Travis were just in the bedroom, and the roommates didn't know. It's possible that they heard the roommate come home, which is an indication to be quiet. The problem I have with these theories is that how do we even know that this "secret" sex went on and that she actually was ever sneaking into his house for sex with his permission? All that could be made up and Travis isn't here to confirm it.
3. Maybe she did what you said. I don't think she walked around in the bathroom until after she rinsed herself off in Travis' shower. Then clean, she can walk through the closet and not get blood on herself. I assume she slit his throat, leaned on the wall, maybe dropped the knife, dragged him back, shot him because he was making noises, got him in the shower, tried to clean up what she could, got in the shower with Travis, washed off.

I don't know why that one foot print is by the bed, though, unless she got up on the bed to take off her other shoe or to pull all the sheets off to walk on. She admitted wearing socks, but I wonder why she'd be wearing socks after a shower and sex in June. I don't know why she'd want to, but I'm a country girl who loves going barefoot, so.....

 

[Nancy_Drew]

I was curious as to the actual definition of "premeditated murder" so I looked it up on Wikipedia... I knew "premeditation" could take place minutes or seconds before the murder, but I had never seen the formal definition.

Here is what Wikipedia says;

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.[1] State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder. Premeditated murder is usually defined as one of the most serious forms of homicide, and is punished more severely than manslaughter or other types of murder - often with the death penalty or a life sentence without the possibility of parole.
In the U.S, Federal law criminalizes premeditated murder, felony murder and second-degree murder at Title 18 United States Code Section 1111

Premeditated murder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[katydid23]

On HLN After Dark, they used the same tired defense argument, " if it was premeditated, why didn't she shoot him in his sleep?" Why knife him in the shower?


Imo, she could not shoot him in his sleep, because her DNA was all over him, and she knew he needed to shower himself off before she could leave him.

 

[debidot]

I think premeditation was proven. The amount of time Jodi spent with Travis prior to killing him doesn't bother me at all. Jodi isn't a hitman! She thought she planned the perfect murder but she overlooked the human element. The roommate was home, Travis fought back or maybe she wavered on working up the nerve to actually do it. I think she had a plan in her head that Travis was going to realize she was his goddess and he was going to beg her to get back together and then they would go to Cancun and check another place to see off the list. Of course her BPD plan failed so she, in her mind, had to kill him.
Prisons are full of people who thought they had planned the perfect murder. Why should Jodi benefit from her failure to plan better? She can think about why she decided to use a knife at a gunfight in prison with all the other criminals who failed to plan better too!
As to premeditation the stolen gun, rental car bs, gas cans, hair dye, third gas can, lack of cell phone activity, license plate bs ... That's enough for me.

 

[mejane]

So many things point to premed, it's crazy to me that anyone could see it as otherwise. No way in hell it was self-defense. What a joke that is!!! She deserves the needle for the cold hearted way she shredded him.

 

[CarolinaWoman]

I think premeditation was proven because of all the steps she took the car rental at the airport, the gas cans, the gun, taking the sim card out of her telephone before crossing the Arizona border. So many preparations. She was on a mission. I think her intent was Travis will take me to Cancun or Travis will not be going to Cancun ... Travis will not be going anywhere ever again.

 

[LinasK]

On HLN After Dark, they used the same tired defense argument, " if it was premeditated, why didn't she shoot him in his sleep?" Why knife him in the shower?


Imo, she could not shoot him in his sleep, because her DNA was all over him, and she knew he needed to shower himself off before she could leave him.

She didn't WANT to shoot him in his sleep. She wanted him to know who exactly was killing him and why. Hence the look of terror on his face in the last of the shower scene pictures. I think she was holding a gun on him at that point and quickly switched to the knife...:moo: