Psych Profile- Elizabeth Johnson

[captdj]

Rather than going through each point, I'll just say that I agree. I think that she is rewriting her own history through Gabriel. She feels that she wasn't loved, so she tries to counter her own lack of love for her child by "choosing" good loving parents. Is it likely that she would believe random strangers are good and loving? To me, the answer is yes, because she has no frame of reference for real parental love.

I think that she kept Gabriel as long as she did because he was, at first, everything she needed. he gave her something to love, something to love her, a bond to hold onto Logan, and that ever elusive chance to "do things over." The problem likely arose when Gabe started to show signs of independence, such as rolling over and becoming mobile, she feared that with that independence would come the loss of the unconditional love, since she likely feels that those that know her can't love her. Fundamentally flawed, as it were. (That is simply from experience. When you move through the foster system, they have a habit of moving you when you really start to band, not on purpose, it just happens a lot of the time, leading to that damaged goods feeling.) She may have realized that her feelings for him were not what a mother was supposed to feel, and after she decided that she didn't want to have something to use as leverage against Logan, she had no more need for him. The only thing that she could hold onto was the chance to do it over. And the only way that she could do that was to give him a family that would keep him forever.
I don't believe that she has dual personality or that she is a sociopath, but I am leaning towards a dissociative disorder, less severe than both a psychotic break or MPD. If it hurts, she turns off. (Once again, common with foster kids and children of addicts.) She would talk if this were painful for her, but it's not...and there is no way to make it painful, except MAYBE if they were to tell her they found him and he is in state care...that could make her snap, take away her ace in the hole.

IM-nonprofessional-O.

To me, Elizabeth didnt want or was not able bond with Gabriel....

Elizabeth was driven by what she emotionally felt of what she wanted.... not thinking what was best for Gabriel....

She could have turned Gabriel over to her family or Logans family...and walked. "excited about starting her new life" was still an option....

If she wasnt going to be with Logan then Gabriel wasnt either....the plan was to cause as much pain to Logan as possible and Gabriel was her weapon.JMO

 

[BeanE]

I don't know why I didn't notice this before. This is from Elizabeth's charging document.

Section D, question 3 is: Is there any indication the defendant is: an alcoholic, mentally disturbed, any other court order, an addict, physically ill.

Each has a check box. Mentally disturbed is checked. The others are not.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/01/27/elizabeth.johnson.criminal.complaint.pdf

 

[time]

<snipped>
Also your thoughts on Elizabeth's statement at her hearing where she said "Everything she said is completely false." referring to the county attorney. The county attorney had included a number of simple, basic, undeniable, provable, facts. <snipped>

I think Elizabeth amended that statement and possibly meant to say much of it was false, not all. It's worth reconsidering if Elizabeth was making some valid claims here.

 

[TXHOPE]

I don't know why I didn't notice this before. This is from Elizabeth's charging document.

Section D, question 3 is: Is there any indication the defendant is: an alcoholic, mentally disturbed, any other court order, an addict, physically ill.

Each has a check box. Mentally disturbed is checked. The others are not.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/01/27/elizabeth.johnson.criminal.complaint.pdf

What? Wouldn't that have to be based on an evaluation?

 

[DaneBramage]

I don't know why I didn't notice this before. This is from Elizabeth's charging document.

Section D, question 3 is: Is there any indication the defendant is: an alcoholic, mentally disturbed, any other court order, an addict, physically ill.

Each has a check box. Mentally disturbed is checked. The others are not.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/01/27/elizabeth.johnson.criminal.complaint.pdf

Also the "yes" box was checked on the question "Was anyone injured?"

SO this doc was prepared by the DA's office? Could the "Mentally disturbed" status reflect the court's psych eval or was that from the defense? I am thinking the former.

Am I wrong or did Logan state that EJ was doing better on the meds?

 

[TXHOPE]

Also the "yes" box was checked on the question "Was anyone injured?"

SO this doc was prepared by the DA's office? Could the "Mentally disturbed" status reflect the court's psych eval or was that from the defense? I am thinking the former.

Am I wrong or did Logan state that EJ was doing better on the meds?

I think her grandfather made that statement.

 

[BeanE]

I think Elizabeth amended that statement and possibly meant to say much of it was false, not all. It's worth reconsidering if Elizabeth was making some valid claims here.

Everything EJ said:

EJ: Elizabeth Johnson. 7-24-86.

snip

Judge: Alright. Uh, ma’am, I have appointed the public defender to represent you. I noted you shaking your head and disagreeing with the comments of the

EJ: Yes. Everything she was saying was completely false.
[EJ talking over the judge]

Judge: Please do not interrupt. I, uh, I noted that you were disagreeing by nodding, er, by shaking your head back and forth with comments made by the county attorney at various, uh, times during her statement. Uh, while I recognize that you may have a different view of, uh, of what was said, um, I’m gonna urge you to, uh, urge or ask you to not make any statements here this morning, uh, given that you have been appointed an attorney and obviously that attorney is not present. Um, that said, if you elect to cooperate and, and, and talk to people, that, that is up to you, but understand that anything can, you say in here is, is, um, may be used against you. This is all being recorded. All that said, is there anything you want to ask me or tell me?

EJ: Um, ask you? I don’t really know what to say, but everything is so false, from the fleeing to everything that she said is so completely false. I

Judge: Alright.

EJ: I don’t know what else to say, but that.

snip

EJ: When do I get a lawyer?

Judge: I’m sorry.

EJ: When do I get a lawyer? I don’t understand.

Judge: You’re appointed a lawyer now. We’re going to give you instructions on how to contact your lawyer.

EJ: Okay.

 

[BeanE]

What? Wouldn't that have to be based on an evaluation?

I don't know. It says 'any indication'. Could that mean observation by LE or jail staff? I really don't know.

The document is dated 1/11. She was transferred to Maricopa County 1/9 I think. I don't know if she would have had an eval in Miami Beach, or if she could have had one so quickly in Maricopa.

ETA: Just realized she didn't have an attorney at that time. Could she have gotten a psych eval without an attorney?

 

[DaneBramage]

IF it came from the defense, that kinda scares me.

 

[not_my_kids]

If they come from her charging docs, couldn't they be from her own admissions? Such as, "I'm really messed up in the head right now." or "I can't think straight." could come out as mentally disturbed without it being too much of a stretch for the prosecution.

 

[TXHOPE]

Or maybe she mentioned being on meds for postpartum depression.

 

[LogicalMinds]

I personally don't care much what her problem is/was....I am just sorry that the state workers and court in their usual lax roles allowed her to be anywhere near a baby

I think there was ample evidence that she has deep seated problems....and should have been under psychiatric care. I don't see how she was even allowed anywhere near Gabe after the things she did , threats against him/Logan....the "rage" incident, neglecting him

 

[not_my_kids]

Hey, found a tiny thing. I think I already saw it, but saw no discussion on it.

He adds that Elizabeth was overwhelmed by motherhood, saying she became easily enraged and, often, physically destructive. As a child, she was abandoned by abusive parents and raised in foster care.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/11/earlyshow/main6081837.shtml

I had often wondered how she ended up in foster care. Abandonment seems to be the answer...to a lot of questions.

 

[chell]

Yes, I agree. Early reports covered this but it seems to have died down.

Since history seemed to be repeating itself in terms of her possibly feeling abandoned by LM--whether real or imagined, only this time with EJ's life irreversably altered by the addition of a child, I can see why she may have felt like her life had been ruined (left alone with a child she felt unable to care for). Any mention of EJ's rages seem to suggest they occured mostly, if not completely, after having G, it would also be interesting to know if her rage and motherly despondence could have been due primarily to PPD.

 

[not_my_kids]

I am also very curious as to what she told Logan about "liars like you" in the text message. If you cussing out the man that had wronged you, and you were cussing him out for the last time, wouldn't you go a little stronger than "liar"? I would. For that reason, there is some personal truth in that for EJ, IMO. Now is it that he's a liar because he promised to stay with her and be a family, and then wouldn't? (The fact that she told him to leave notwithstanding, I don't think that particular fact even rgisters with EJ.) Or is it something specific that she is referring to that might give a clue as to something she may done to/with Gabriel that was symbolic for her?

 

[not_my_kids]

Yes, I agree. Early reports covered this but it seems to have died down.

Since history seemed to be repeating itself in terms of her possibly feeling abandoned by LM--whether real or imagined, only this time with EJ's life irreversably altered by the addition of a child, I can see why she may have felt like her life had been ruined (left alone with a child she felt unable to care for). Any mention of EJ's rages seem to suggest they occured mostly, if not completely, after having G, it would also be interesting to know if her rage and motherly despondence could have been due primarily to PPD.

She was chasing adults with plungers at what, 12? (I honestly forgot.) But it was well before Gabriel.
The way I see it, there are two kinds of postpartum depression. The kind that is not the woman's fault and is due to imbalanced chemicals and hormones and can be treated with medication if it's caught before the tragedy. And the kind EJ had...depression because she had a child that she didn't want, and it messed up her little world. There's mental illness and there's self-pity. EJ had a bad case of pity.
MOO.

 

[BeanE]

I am also very curious as to what she told Logan about "liars like you" in the text message. If you cussing out the man that had wronged you, and you were cussing him out for the last time, wouldn't you go a little stronger than "liar"? I would. For that reason, there is some personal truth in that for EJ, IMO. Now is it that he's a liar because he promised to stay with her and be a family, and then wouldn't? (The fact that she told him to leave notwithstanding, I don't think that particular fact even rgisters with EJ.) Or is it something specific that she is referring to that might give a clue as to something she may done to/with Gabriel that was symbolic for her?

BBM. Bingo. Her worst fear. Abandonment.

MOO

 

[BeanE]

She was chasing adults with plungers at what, 12? (I honestly forgot.) But it was well before Gabriel.
The way I see it, there are two kinds of postpartum depression. The kind that is not the woman's fault and is due to imbalanced chemicals and hormones and can be treated with medication if it's caught before the tragedy. And the kind EJ had...depression because she had a child that she didn't want, and it messed up her little world. There's mental illness and there's self-pity. EJ had a bad case of pity.
MOO.

I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't think she had/has PPD. I think she has some other long-standing disorder, and that she may have/had PPP, largely because her other disorder was untreated, and then the hormones and life with a baby she didn't want kicked in.

 

[TXHOPE]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't think she had/has PPD. I think she has some other long-standing disorder, and that she may have/had PPP, largely because her other disorder was untreated, and then the hormones and life with a baby she didn't want kicked in.

I thought I had read somewhere that postpartum psychosis was linked to bipolar disorder in the past and just found this article.

Postpartum Psychosis
Linked to Bipolar Disorder

http://bipolar.about.com/od/relateddisorders/a/postpartumpsych.htm

 

[kappy50]

I've often wondered, and surely it has been done, that LE has contacted her OB/GYN, or Psychologist.or some physician that may have prescribed medications. Did GF and LM know for a fact she was on medication for any type of disorder, or is this something maybe EJ just told them or maybe they assumed. The doctor would be able to give so much information about her personality with herself, and with that of her w/ GB. But now, having just said what I said, even if LE did contact any DR's., they probably couldn't give any information because of all the privacy laws....I don't think she had BP,PPD,ADD or anything....I think she is just a very angry girl...for whatever reasons....she felt life had not been good to her and she's just plain angry. But I don't think she was angry enough to hurt GB.